Author Topic: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......  (Read 18598 times)

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Online EEVblog

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2017, 11:54:19 am »
Anyway, my point was that, in this case, technically there *is* a correct answer, and we all *should* make an effort to pronounce it correctly

Really? After 4 generations of engineers calling it either Bowed or Boh-dee you expect everyone to change? Because, well, some people read it on Wikipedia four generations later and they now want everyone to make some sort of moral change?
Very people people call it Boh-dah, but hey, feel free, more power to you, you can make a difference.
But if you want people to use the original Dutch pronunciation (as you should, because it is his name), then you'd better well get the correct Dutch pronunciation with all the right intonation. Don't go half arsed at it and think you know!

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Practically, it comes down to the evolution of language and various accents and speech patterns.

Bingo.

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So, technically you're (we're) wrong, practically it's fine.

I'm glad an american can admit they are wrong, even if they did have to put it in parenthesis as if they are less wrong ;D
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 11:58:51 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2017, 05:02:39 pm »
I don't care how many generations have been doing it one way or the other.  I want this generation to pick a universal way to say it.  Then pass it on.  I once wasted quite a while with a group of German engineers who really spoke English quite well.  The time waster?  Recognizing that "zafeer" and "safire"  (sort of phonetic spellings) were the same substance.  Or actually recognizing that when I said Sapphire I meant the material they knew as Saphir.

This forum, being quite international is a great medium for normalizing our technical jargon.  It encourages me and others of my countrymen to change the way four generations of engineers have been doing things and use the metric system.  There are other ways it brings the worlds community of electronic geeks together.

I suppose we could use the results of the poll and pick that as a winner, but that is the tyranny of the majority.  Which is why I recommended the Dutch name pronunciation as kind of neutral ground.  Yeah, Dave who is set in his ways would have to change.  But so will I and hundreds of other people.  Some of whom are also set in their ways.  But in the end we will have made the next generation a tiny bit better.
 
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Offline SmokeyTopic starter

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2017, 07:46:44 pm »
Interesting... So you are saying that if a mistake is made for 4 generations then there is no need to fix it? Is it exactly 4, or is there a tolerance on that?  Is it when the 4th generation child is born, or when they get their engineering degree?  Since Americans still don't know that a switchblade isn't a knife, how many more generations before it actually becomes a knife? 

If it really doesn't matter, and it really isn't important to honor the guy who created the thing (and as a nice side effect have a consistent way to refer to something so technical people can actually share information effectively), how about we just rename it a "gainy-phasey-logy plot".  That's way more accurate and descriptive than some dutch guy's name that isn't worth the effort to even try to pronounce right.

I actually really do have a frequency response I need to plot this week, but I'm thinking about putting it off until I take a trip to the Netherlands.  Anyone know a good Dutch speech tutor?
 

Offline helius

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2017, 09:52:09 pm »
I'm sure you could say something to folks from New Orleans or Terre Haute about their pronunciation, but don't expect a friendly response... :horse:
 

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2017, 10:07:19 pm »
I don't care how many generations have been doing it one way or the other.  I want this generation to pick a universal way to say it.  Then pass it on. 

Not going to happen for linguistics reasons.
Also, most people don't care.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2017, 10:08:58 pm »
If it really doesn't matter, and it really isn't important to honor the guy who created the thing

Oh please.
We honour the guy every time we use the word. The pronunciation nazi's need to get over it.
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2017, 02:37:07 am »
We honour the guy every time we use the word. The pronunciation nazi's need to get over it.

I don't quite get why you've got such a bee in your bonnet about this. It's a bit over the top to call people "pronunciation nazi's" (sic*) just because they disagree with you. If anything, a prescriptivist 'because that's how we say it' is closer to the autocratic implied by 'Nazi' than any argument I'm hearing from other quarters.

A man's name is a man's name and there is only ever going to be one strictly correct way to pronounce it, the way that man does. I've always been taught that it's polite to try as best one can to get the pronunciation of a foreigner's name right and so I'm opting for the Nederlander 'Bo-dah' version.

I certainly don't buy the 'generations of engineers got it wrong so now it's right' argument. As for a 'linguistic drift' argument, well it just doesn't cut it for proper names over less than a few hundred years and Bode's lifetime isn't very different from my father's and I can assure you that they didn't start pronouncing my father's name differently in that short a period (the real Nazis might have called him a few things other than his given name but that would have been for different reasons).

*Couldn't resist; the incipient grammar Nazi in me can't let a missed capital and a greengrocer's apostrophe go unmarked. The laws of grammar now mean that I will spot a spelling error, a literal, a misplaced punctuation mark or a grammar error immediately after I have hit "Post".
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2017, 03:37:32 am »
I don't quite get why you've got such a bee in your bonnet about this.

Because as a content creator I hear it over and over and over again, hundreds of times, every time I say the word in a video. That's been happening for the last 7 years. I don't expect non content creators to understand this.
I could delete the comments, or I could ignore the comments, or I could try and educate people so they hopefully stop doing that. I foolishly chose the latter.
I'm done.
 

Offline Excavatoree

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2017, 04:06:54 am »
One of my professors claimed it rhymed with "no day."   I haven't heard anyone else assert that.  (If it's in this thread, I apologize for missing it.)

As for the debate, well, I'll sit this one out.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2017, 04:31:19 am »
I don't quite get why you've got such a bee in your bonnet about this.

Because as a content creator I hear it over and over and over again, hundreds of times, every time I say the word in a video. That's been happening for the last 7 years. I don't expect non content creators to understand this.
I could delete the comments, or I could ignore the comments, or I could try and educate people so they hopefully stop doing that. I foolishly chose the latter.
I'm done.

I guess you have a lot in common with our recent President Bush.  I cringed every time be talked about "nucular weapons".  People chided him all the time.  But he was the content creator, and the decider.
 

Offline SmokeyTopic starter

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2017, 05:36:20 am »
Every working engineer is a "content creator".  Videos on the interwebs are just one type of widget.  When it comes out of your head and you present it to someone else, you are creating content; be it in a studio, an office, or your garage.  The communication part is important, and that requires an effort for common language.  Sometimes all answers are not equal.  Being a content creator is exactly the thing that rightly opens one up to criticism, not making one exempt from it.  That's how humans filter knowledge.  No one wants to live in North Korea with their state confirmed unicorn cave that they're not allowed to deny.

Facts... Some people say "Bowed".. Some people say "Boh-dee".. and as it turns out then there are some people who are actually objectively more correct that say "Boh-dah".  This isn't a "toe-may-toe", "toe-ma-toe" thing.  It's a dude's name.  How is that a threat to the content creator?  It's not like someone made a montage video of all the times Dave said "Bowed" with the intent of pointing and laughing. 

...however much past or current presidents might like to think so, being president doesn't make everything you say correct or acceptable.  Bush was just wrong about "nuk-u-lar".
 

Offline helius

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2017, 08:05:22 am »
Now where have I heard this argument before...

 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2017, 01:11:17 pm »
I don't quite get why you've got such a bee in your bonnet about this.

Because as a content creator I hear it over and over and over again, hundreds of times, every time I say the word in a video. That's been happening for the last 7 years. I don't expect non content creators to understand this.
I could delete the comments, or I could ignore the comments, or I could try and educate people so they hopefully stop doing that. I foolishly chose the latter.
I'm done.

Ah, thaar's ya problem. I think you're confusing correctness and style. I was a tech journalist for a number of years and subject to the whims of the style guides of the various publications that I wrote for. I got used to phrasing things the way the editor(s) wanted rather than how I might naturally put it - basically some corners got knocked off. Some things are always going to be a question of style, like whether to split infinitives or not. You're always on a hiding to nothing if you choose to go down the route of defending a stylistic choice as a correctness choice.

The giveaway here is your choice above of the word educate. If you had framed it as "That's how I learned it and I'm going to stick with it; it's a question of style", I think you'd have little argument from most people, certainly not from me. Framing it as "that's the only way to say it" is inviting an argument, especially in a room full of barrack room lawyers engineers.

A final point, just because I'm an evil bastard. For amusement, try re-reading your last comment and substitute your favourite figure of derision in place of "content creator" - "pommie", "vegan", "millennial snowflake", whatever floats your boat. What does it sound like now?
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline Excavatoree

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2017, 02:23:42 pm »
For the younger folks who weren't around, US  President Carter also pronounced "nuclear" as "nukular."   
 

Offline madires

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2017, 02:31:34 pm »
It's bode in dutch and that appears to be correct way of pronouncing it.  :-DD

I fully agree with you. I can't remember that anyone in Germany ever pronounced it boud. And for an independent expert's opinion on this matter we should ask someone with a strong Scottish accent after he has escaped from a voice controlled elevator ;)
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2017, 03:32:39 pm »
It's bode in dutch and that appears to be correct way of pronouncing it.  :-DD

I fully agree with you. I can't remember that anyone in Germany ever pronounced it boud. And for an independent expert's opinion on this matter we should ask someone with a strong Scottish accent after he has escaped from a voice controlled elevator ;)

So that would be "whuzzafackabasa! Gay mee ann AXE, NU!".
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2017, 06:06:09 pm »
It just occurred to me.  Bode developed his plots in 1938.  Assuming they were picked up instantly in Australia, that is just under 80 years ago.  And according to Dave four generations of Australian engineers have been pronouncing it one way.  You Ozzies go through generations like rabbits!  Much of the world thinks of a generation as roughly 30 years.
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2017, 07:48:27 pm »
The pronunciation nazi's need to get over it.

The apostrophe Nazis are horrified.
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2017, 07:49:47 pm »
For the younger folks who weren't around, US  President Carter also pronounced "nuclear" as "nukular."   

And he actually knew what he was talking about.
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Who's name is pronounced.......
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2017, 07:53:06 pm »
So... Next up: Gauss.

And waiting in the dugout: Fresnel.
 

Offline vodka

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2017, 08:06:05 pm »
For the younger folks who weren't around, US  President Carter also pronounced "nuclear" as "nukular."   

And he actually knew what he was talking about.

You are wrong according Homer J. Simpson the correct pronounciation of  "nuclear" is nucelar (nu-ce-lar)  :-DD :-DD

https://youtu.be/BbdRpNnP3Hs?t=9s
 

Offline IconicPCB

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2017, 07:50:56 pm »
And while we are frenetically awaiting Fresnel, let us talk Putin.
 

Offline Nerull

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2017, 09:02:53 am »
I hope everyone in this thread also says Voult and says Celsius with a swedish accent.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #48 on: March 12, 2017, 03:55:31 pm »
How about this pronunciation.... ;)



 

Offline Feynman

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Re: Bode Plots come from Hendrik Bode... Whose name is pronounced.......
« Reply #49 on: March 12, 2017, 09:23:07 pm »
Every German Engineer i know pronounces Bode like its written. Meaning the "e" sounds the same like the first "a" in "again" or the "e" in "the".
 


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