Author Topic: Bad experience with JLCPCB and DHL – things you should know before ordering PCBs  (Read 54773 times)

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Offline ve7xen

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I really don't understand why you are dragging JLCPCB into this. You asked them to ship your package with DHL Express. Whether or not that service includes brokerage is something you can easily find out from DHL. The onus on you is to know what the delivery standard and included services are with a particular shipping service. It'd be nice if JLCPCB knew this and notified you upfront, but I don't know why you expect them to know the ins and outs of parcel delivery rules in your country or how DHL handles customs clearance there (and for every other country they ship to). If they had shipped using a different carrier than requested (seen this happen before), or using a different service level than requested, then you'd have a legitimate complaint, but they did exactly as requested.

Would you complain to JLCPCB if they used the international postal system to ship instead, and your local post office charged a brokerage processing fee?

That said, I think these fees are highway robbery and complete bullshit, and I've been through this unexpected fee business many years ago when I started buying internationally and hated FedEx for it, but I never thought to attribute blame to the seller. This is a scam perpetrated by the courier companies, take it up with them, or learn which services are 'safe' to use and which aren't.
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Offline Yansi

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None are bulshit fee free.  DHL being actually one of the cheapest of them!  Go, play with fedex or UPS... You will then be glad DHL exists!

 

Offline Siwastaja

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I really don't understand why you are dragging JLCPCB into this. You asked them to ship your package with DHL Express. Whether or not that service includes brokerage is something you can easily find out from DHL.

Bullshit. You can't "easily find it out from DHL". Even contacting DHL can be colossally difficult (speaking of experience).

To prove otherwise, please provide a reference. And why should you, when you are not their customer?

Couriers like DHL are notorious of the fact they make different kind of agreements with different customers, different terms&conditions, different pricing... And everything is volatile. It's a can of worms for someone not used to dealing with them.

DHL provides both types of services, brokerage paid by the sender, or not paid by the sender. The only one who can inform the customer about the exact contract with DHL, is the only party who has made the contract with DHL: JLCPCB.

The chain of contract is trivially simple: JLCPCB buys a service from DHL, and the customer buys a service from JLCPCB.

JLCPCB should simply inform the customer that DHL may force-sell services to the customer. It's that easy. But, I understand this is hard to see for them because of the cultural differences, and the fact people are reacting to this in so many random ways.

Yet, year after year, this proves a good internet forum subject for people to be wrong on the internet.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 09:53:45 am by Siwastaja »
 

Offline KIKi

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I really don't understand why you are dragging JLCPCB into this. You asked them to ship your package with DHL Express. Whether or not that service includes brokerage is something you can easily find out from DHL.

Bullshit. You can't "easily find it out from DHL". Even contacting DHL can be colossally difficult (speaking of experience).

To prove otherwise, please provide a reference. And why should you, when you are not their customer?

Couriers like DHL are notorious of the fact they make different kind of agreements with different customers, different terms&conditions, different pricing... And everything is volatile. It's a can of worms for someone not used to dealing with them.

DHL provides both types of services, brokerage paid by the sender, or not paid by the sender. The only one who can inform the customer about the exact contract with DHL, is the only party who has made the contract with DHL: JLCPCB.

The chain of contract is trivially simple: JLCPCB buys a service from DHL, and the customer buys a service from JLCPCB.

JLCPCB should simply inform the customer that DHL may force-sell services to the customer. It's that easy. But, I understand this is hard to see for them because of the cultural differences, and the fact people are reacting to this in so many random ways.

Yet, year after year, this proves a good internet forum subject for people to be wrong on the internet.

Just read FAQ at JLCPCB website. It is completely your fault. https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/32-customs-duties-and-taxes
 
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Offline Siwastaja

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Just read FAQ at JLCPCB website. It is completely your fault. https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/32-customs-duties-and-taxes

This is surprisingly clearly stated, indeed. They have clearly understood the issue - I see no problem here. I was replying to a post claiming that JLCPCB "shouldn't" need to tell this - which is bullshit, they need to, and they clearly do.

However, FAQ is a misleading place for such a statement: it needs to appear next to the shipping costs (at least in the terms and conditions you agree to when clicking that typical checkbox - but preferably not buried away in a large legal wall of text), when you are committing to buy. I'm not saying it isn't there - maybe it is, and maybe the OP didn't bother to read what he was committing to buy.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 11:07:54 am by Siwastaja »
 

Offline 2N3055

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@Siwastaja,

I'we been importing stuff for many years.
I checked. Mouser, Farnell, RS... none of them do what you think would be right.
It is frustrating, I know.

To people doing export/import it is normal thing.
Key word here is INCOTERMS.  That is a definition of import/export terms between you and seller.

What you are explaining would be DDP incoterm (delivery duty paid). Which means that what you paid up front is final price and goods come to your door with not a single additional penny.
DDP is not USUAL incoterm. You have to negotiate it specifically, and many sellers will not be able to do it, because they cannot handle accurate calculations how much it will cost and all the procedures for every damn country in the world.

That is why usually (and this is what all of them do)  they use DAP incoterms. DAP stands for  'Delivered at Place'. Here you pay goods , and transport cost to your door, but all customs, taxes, import permits, fees etc. are paid by customer at import procedure.

And legally, even seller routed your payment to carrier, you are legally responsible for importation in the country.

This all is actually complicated. That is why customs unions like EU are so awesome.

Regards,
 
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Offline LapTop006

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I really don't understand why you are dragging JLCPCB into this. You asked them to ship your package with DHL Express. Whether or not that service includes brokerage is something you can easily find out from DHL.

Bullshit. You can't "easily find it out from DHL". Even contacting DHL can be colossally difficult (speaking of experience).

Courier companies are *incredibly* variable based on their local offices, and sometimes divisions within that. For me in Australia DHL courier is pretty good for customer service, DHL freight, pretty bad.

Also those lucky enough to work for companies with large accounts often get better service, and at a cheaper price.
 

Offline ve7xen

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Bullshit. You can't "easily find it out from DHL". Even contacting DHL can be colossally difficult (speaking of experience).

To prove otherwise, please provide a reference. And why should you, when you are not their customer?
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=does+dhl+express+include+brokerage

In the Google preview for the first result at my location, without even clicking the link, it says: "At the time of delivery, the recipient is provided with a brokerage invoice detailing the duties and taxes that DHL Express has paid on their behalf, plus a brokerage and transaction fee."

Quote
Couriers like DHL are notorious of the fact they make different kind of agreements with different customers, different terms&conditions, different pricing... And everything is volatile. It's a can of worms for someone not used to dealing with them.

If you thought this, why didn't you sort it out yourself before ordering? Also, it's not really true. In the vast majority of cases, one of the standard products will be used, and it will either not include brokerage fees (e.g. DHL Express) or include them (e.g. FedEx International Priority). When this isn't the case, it's almost always because the store has made a DDP arrangement of some sort, such that the duties are prepaid on your invoice with the seller, rather than by the courier, which would be clearly indicated. I've seen sellers just say 'FedEx' rather than the exact service, or actually ship using a different service than was requested, both of which would be legitimate complaints, but neither is the case here.

Quote
DHL provides both types of services, brokerage paid by the sender, or not paid by the sender. The only one who can inform the customer about the exact contract with DHL, is the only party who has made the contract with DHL: JLCPCB.

"DHL International Express" means something, and contains the information you need. There is no special arrangement between DHL and JLCPCB, they are using a standard service that you can find the details on at the website. And anyway, the safe assumption is that customs clearance is not included, in lieu of other information. You should assume it is not included unless you know that the service includes it, or is DDP (where you will see your local taxes on the invoice). In this case you didn't know it was included and could have asked JLC or DHL.

Quote
The chain of contract is trivially simple: JLCPCB buys a service from DHL, and the customer buys a service from JLCPCB.

Exactly. You've selected a DHL service, and JLC is just reselling it to you. You will get that DHL service at DHL's terms. It makes zero sense for JLCPCB to duplicate all of DHL's (changing and region specific, so they'd be inaccurate anyway) policies on their own website. You selected the service you wanted - DHL International Express - and that's exactly what was delivered.

Quote
JLCPCB should simply inform the customer that DHL may force-sell services to the customer. It's that easy. But, I understand this is hard to see for them because of the cultural differences, and the fact people are reacting to this in so many random ways.

I agree that because customers are often unfamiliar with customs clearance, and the exorbitant fees that couriers sometimes charge for it, that vendors should in general warn about brokerage fees and seek to help their customers minimize them. But this is just a convenience and a niceness for the customer, it's by no means their obligation to do so. Caveat emptor, as it were.
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Offline Warhawk

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Guys, just a quick question.
I've just finished my first order from JLC which was about 6 USD total. There are two designs 34x34mm, five boards each.
I accidentally selected DHL International shipping which was free. I think this is JLC's promotion for first time customers (but not sure). Package is ridiculously cheap and it should be under the 22EUR customs limit for Germany (EU).

Does anyone had to deal with customs declaration and broker fees even for such small package which is below the customs limit?

I have already sent an email to JLC with request changing shipping to standard post but anyways.... I am still curious what happens.

Offline KaneTW

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I recommend opening a DHL Express account just so you can yell at them if they charged the provision instead of direct debitting just the duty. Works like a charm, but you need an EORI number nowadays (I got mine before that)
 
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Offline Warhawk

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I recommend opening a DHL Express account just so you can yell at them if they charged the provision instead of direct debitting just the duty. Works like a charm, but you need an EORI number nowadays (I got mine before that)

Honestly, this is far beyond the effort I want to invest in this 6 USD purchase. In this case, they can keep the order. At the end of the day, I am the fool who wanted to save a penny. I should have gone for aisler.net or OSH park. Especially aisler.net is based in Germany...

Anyway, thanks for the tip.

Offline Towger

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If you are in the EU 'Free Postage' is calculated as the cost of sending the item back to the sender, from the point it entered the European Union.

Got whacked with over 60 euro tax on a $45 package with that trick [emoji43]
 

Offline Warhawk

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If you are in the EU 'Free Postage' is calculated as the cost of sending the item back to the sender, from the point it entered the European Union.

Got whacked with over 60 euro tax on a $45 package with that trick [emoji43]

I know but nobody can force me to accept a package which I don't want to. Or can? Hmm, not sure.  :-//

Imagine that a sender makes and error and sends a package to the wrong customer. What would happen then? If DHL pisses me off I will just order a shitload of dummy PCBs to the regional manager. (joke, ...but fun to think of...)

As I said before - I sent an email to JLC asking them to change my shipping option but who knows if this will work. Communicating something with China outside of the daily business has been always tricky.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 08:46:15 am by Warhawk »
 

Offline KaneTW

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For what's it worth, I didn't even get an invoice when I ordered from JLCPCB via DHL Express.
 

Offline Warhawk

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I got the reply for JLCPCB this morning. They will change shipping without any problem. I can still see the old shipping option online but let's hope for the best. The reply was fast and in good English.  :-+

Offline Yansi

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If you are in the EU 'Free Postage' is calculated as the cost of sending the item back to the sender, from the point it entered the European Union.

Got whacked with over 60 euro tax on a $45 package with that trick [emoji43]

Welcome to the EU shithole we live in!
 

Offline kripton2035

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just bought 10 pcb's from jlcpcb, choose the lowest shipping, and got them in 15 days to France. paid €6 total. €2 for pcbs and €4 for shipping.
very happy with it.
 

Offline Yansi

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On 23rd March I have also ordered a bunch of small PCBs, currently they are in transit. Tracking does not provide anything meaningful  ;D
This is the first time I have used snailmail with JLC, i usually only use DHL @JLC or @AllPCB, with no issues.

I am also interested in how fast it will be. PCBShopper indicates, it may take a month to get delivered in the middle of the EU shithole. Hopefully it'll be faster than that.
 

Offline kripton2035

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Quote
Tracking does not provide anything meaningful
use the site https://www.aftership.com/ to track the shipping.
 

Offline balage

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DHL is the standard curier for ALLPCB and I have not experienced any problem. Yet. Maybe luck is also a key factor. But I have got the PCBs typically within 7-8 days.

And the point is: I have noticed that on the document enclosed a smaller amount of money is written. Generally less than around 50 bucks. This paper is needed for the customs paperwork I guess and it makes everything easy if the value does not exceed a limit. I was wondering what if the local customs authority asks me to show the Paypal invoice to check the real money paid. This is often asked for Ebay packages to be released.

 
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Offline Yansi

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What would you expect to happen? They are well used to the fact the paperwork attached to the package shows lower amounts of money and they happily ignore those numbers straight away.

However, it seems JLC PCB always adds proper invoices and state the full amount of money. They always catch those packages.

Customs should not require any paypal or bank account listings (I couldn't even generate those from my bank account by any official means, other then a screenshot).  The original invoice should be more then enough. (Downloadable straight from the JLC or whatever vendors website).

I do not think that in Hungary this is any different, as Hungary is as EU as we are here.  :)
 

Offline Kjelt

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If you are in the EU 'Free Postage' is calculated as the cost of sending the item back to the sender, from the point it entered the European Union.
Got whacked with over 60 euro tax on a $45 package with that trick [emoji43] 
I got the same bad deal from DHL.
I bought a $300 piece of hardware from ali, sent with DHL for free , so the price of the item included the shipping.
I asked them to put $100 value on the package which they did.

DHL arrived and asked for €95 because of 21% over $100 which is fair and 21% over $250 shipping costs and €20 handling fee?
 :wtf: I argued about the 21% over $250 shipping costs and their official response after multiple emails was a tarif for sending packages from Europe to China with certain weight.
Their argument shipping is never free so is probably paid in another way so we estimate the shipping costs and you have to pay that stupid wrong estimation.

 

Offline 2N3055

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I newer had that problem with DHL in Croatia. They would always calculate according to whatever was on Invoice that was included in shipment.
VAT is calculated on price of goods and shipping combined.
Only thing that was extra was cca 15€ processing fee.. I had same experience as a company and as a private person..
So I guess it is really different from country to country...
 

Offline Warhawk

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I newer had that problem with DHL in Croatia. They would always calculate according to whatever was on Invoice that was included in shipment.
VAT is calculated on price of goods and shipping combined.
Only thing that was extra was cca 15€ processing fee.. I had same experience as a company and as a private person..
So I guess it is really different from country to country...

This is exactly why I refreshed this thread. My order was for 6 Eur so I don't want to pay extra 15-20 Eur just the "processing fee". No complains about DHL.  :)

Offline RobBarter

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I’ve used jlcpcb a few times this year, all via the cheapest delivery option.  This time though I decided to pay the extra £10 and go with DHL.  Gerber files uploaded Monday night (uk time), dhl handed them to me in deepest darkest Devon (out in the shires of England) Friday Morning at about 9:30am.  No extra charges. Less than 3.5 days from order to delivery (9.5*9cm boards).
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