Altium designer 18 vs Cadence Allegro 17.2

[Narside]

Hello. Has anybody compared functionality and usability of the two hi-end EDAs at the current state? I'm mostly interested in the process flow of designing, simulating and pcb routing. At preious state it seemed to me that these softs could be compared like Solidworks vs Catia relatively in terms of possibilities

[TiN]

It does not really matter,  you'll be using the one which your employer have license for anyway. .
Both tools of this level and price allow to design and do 99.9999% of things that you will ever need.

[Gibson486]

They will both get you pissed at some point

[ahbushnell]

It does not really matter,  you'll be using the one which your employer have license for anyway. .
Both tools of this level and price allow to design and do 99.9999% of things that you will ever need.

Sounds like he may be a decision maker in selecting a software package. 

[nctnico]

I've had both demonstrated during the past couple of weeks. I think both packages offer the same functionality but Orcad allows to buy only what you need so it can be made less expensive compared to Altium. Also the minimum PC system requirements for Orcad are much lower so it is likely to run smoother than Altium. In addition Orcad PCB Editor/Allegro (the PCB design package) has a native (PC) Linux version as well.

[eeviking]

I think the CAD analogy would be more like Altium is Inventor and Allegro is Solidworks ? 

[CadenceAE]

We have many experiences of companies doing comparisons between Allegro and other tools.    Two design teams both start with the same pre-built libraries in their platform and then have to make a complex design.   The designs consist of DDr interfaces, high speed serial interfaces, RF,  multiple power rails, mechanical, price, life-cycle and electrical constraints. The design cycle has typical ECO's thrown into the test.    In these situations Allegro consistently produces a finished functioning PCB in less time, smaller form factor and less layers, at lower cost, than the competitive team.   The main reasons for this is the Allegro platform has features like HDI routing, circuit replicate,  embedded electrical field solvers,  online manufacturing and assembly checking, team design that includes SI and PI,  and constraint driven design.   When you're making a product that you intend to sell millions of, do you want your design team to use the tool they think is the easiest to use or a high end tool that may require some training.   In other words.. if you have to dig a hole,  do you want a shovel or a bulldozer. 

[Ice-Tea]

...if you have to dig a hole,  do you want a shovel or a bulldozer.

Well, in my garden I'd very much prefer a shovel...

[EEVblog]

We have many experiences of companies doing comparisons between Allegro and other tools.    Two design teams both start with the same pre-built libraries in their platform and then have to make a complex design.   The designs consist of DDr interfaces, high speed serial interfaces, RF,  multiple power rails, mechanical, price, life-cycle and electrical constraints. The design cycle has typical ECO's thrown into the test.    In these situations Allegro consistently produces a finished functioning PCB in less time, smaller form factor and less layers, at lower cost, than the competitive team.   The main reasons for this is the Allegro platform has features like HDI routing, circuit replicate,  embedded electrical field solvers,  online manufacturing and assembly checking, team design that includes SI and PI,  and constraint driven design.   When you're making a product that you intend to sell millions of, do you want your design team to use the tool they think is the easiest to use or a high end tool that may require some training.   In other words.. if you have to dig a hole,  do you want a shovel or a bulldozer.

Cadence employee says Allegro is the best

In these situations Allegro consistently produces a finished functioning PCB in less time, smaller form factor and less layers, at lower cost, than the competitive team.

I have to call BS on that one.
Form factor, number of layers and cost have essentially nothing to do with better or more efficient features in a PCB tool, it comes down to the PCB designers skills.
Less time, ok, sure, but a more efficient PCB tool with more automation feature does not magically make your products smaller and use less layers. Any capable PCB designer can do the exact same board in any package.

[Pack34]

Altium has the ability to do everything I've ever needed and is just simply easier to use. I believe OrCAD is supposed to be easier to manage with larger teams but Altium has it's own Vault setup and I believe it can plug into the Solidworks PDM with the Solidworks Connector.

If you have the choice I would go down the Altium route just because it "feels" like more polished software. The last thing you want is your tool to inhibit your design flow.

One powerful thing is that Altium does directly integrate with revision control repositories (SVN and GIT).

[Omicron]

Also the minimum PC system requirements for Orcad are much lower so it is likely to run smoother than Altium.

I've run both Altium and Orcad in a VMWare virtual machine on a Mac. Admittedly this is not a common use case, but at least in this context Orcad is dead slow to the point of being barely usable (and this is schematic editing, not PCB layout). Altium on the other hand runs nearly as well in a VM as it runs on my dedicated PC. I haven't installed Orcad on my physical PC because my license is tied to the VM. This is another disadvantage of Orcad btw, the license is tied to a machine. I hate that. I find Orcad very antiquated compared to Altium, at least the schematic editing part. I haven't used the PCB layout part but I did use the "Allegro physical viewer" to review some PCB designs. And judging from how unintuitive (to me) that is to use compared to Altium I haven't had the heart to even try Orcad's PCB layout alternative.

[Ice-Tea]

but I did use the "Allegro physical viewer" to review some PCB designs. And judging from how unintuitive (to me) that is to use compared to Altium...

Oh, good, I thought it was just me!

[hammy]

This is another disadvantage of Orcad btw, the license is tied to a machine.

You can order an USB dongle and use Allegro/OrCAD on any PC you want.
The license you are talking about is bound to the MAC address. This is mostly the standard.
Another way is to float licenses with a license server, but this is something for big installations.

The Altium gui is more Windows style, the OrCAD/Allego UI design is more Unix style. The separation in several programs is - in my opinion - a benefit not to clutter the main interface and helps a lot to orient oneself. Other people love the way Altium is covering everything in one window/program. It depends on you what is more convenient to you.
At the end its just a tool to do the job.

The money is another aspect:
OrCAD Professional + CIS is on par (and in some aspects beyond: length matching, SI, Simulation) with Altium, but cheaper!
Allegro with the possible add-on options is way ahead of the capabilities of Altium, but more expensive.
But does this matter for you? Whats your main focus of work, which features are needed?

But: OrCAD and Allegro are two products with way different features and capabilities. (http://www.parallel-systems.co.uk/matrix/)

How good or bad a design is, depends on the human who creates the design.

PS: A good source to get an impression of Allegro/OrCAD are the free videos from Robert Feranec on yt (or his Fedevel OrCAD course).

[Deridex]

I would just try both and then buy the one i like more. Use the free trials, that are offered. I think it's alot about personal taste.

As example i like the GUI of Altium, which i use at work.

I think you can create good layouts in both. But i would not count any anyone that does marketing-claims like seen a bit above

[ThomasDK]

They are both excellent packages, each with their own strengths.

Footprint and schematic symbol creation is a lot faster/easier in Altium. The 3D integration in Altium makes Allegro look like something from the eighties.

On the other hand the polygon handling in Allegro is miles ahead of Altium.

Personally I'm equally productive in both.

[asmi]

The 3D integration in Altium makes Allegro look like something from the eighties.

This is no longer the case. Last year Cadence made a lot of improvements in this area - added support for moving flexes, integration with the layout (you can move the part in 3D, and it will move in the layout at the same time), cutting plane support, etc.

[Pack34]

The 3D integration in Altium makes Allegro look like something from the eighties.

This is no longer the case. Last year Cadence made a lot of improvements in this area - added support for moving flexes, integration with the layout (you can move the part in 3D, and it will move in the layout at the same time), cutting plane support, etc.

What release was this in? I'm running 17.2

[asmi]

What release was this in? I'm running 17.2

Current version is 17.2-2016-S046 (you can see the version on a start page of Capture). They release an update every two weeks. Some of these 3D features are still considered experimental, so this is an ongoing project for them.

[glaxoni]

I would just try both and then buy the one i like more. Use the free trials, that are offered.

This is what I'd advise also but personally I prefer Altium

[robertferanec]

It depends ....

1) My personal opinion: Personally I love AD18 more than Cadence. It is a complete package - you have everything in one place from Schematic, libraries, pcb, output documents. It is also very intuitive and user friendly. Altium is the software what I have and use in my company (I also have OrCAD Professional, but I have not had the right project for it yet). HOWEVER, if I had a bigger team e.g. 3 and more HW engineers, I would seriously consider to go for Cadence, see the next point.

2) Price point of view: AD is getting more and more expensive (I think it is around 10 000 USD or even more, correct me if I am wrong) and Cadence can be interesting from price point of view. Based on the information I have, OrCAD Professional starts at $2K (for a standalone license) and includes advanced features. The OrCAD Professional has everything what you need for designing any board (you can use OrCAD Professional to design complex and advanced boards).

So, if your budget is limited, the 2k OrCAD Professional is perfect choice. Or, if your team is bigger, Cadence can make sense. You only buy a few expensive licenses and a lot of work can be done with cheap $443 license (I think that is current price for OrCAD Standard). Disadvantage of OrCAD is, that you may need some time to get used to it and they still need to improve some stuff. But I know they are working on it ...

Still, if you have for example 3 engineers, that would be like 6k vs 30k for buying the software ... big difference, and I would go for Cadence, even it is not as nice and easy to use as Altium (Altium has some cheaper options like CircuitStudio, but I would not go that way).

3) Big board design & Simulations: If your designs are based on big boards (e.g. server boards) or if you require simulations, definitely go for Cadence. This will cost you more money, but everything works together e.g. you can add info into schematic or into PCB and this info can be transferred and used in simulation. Cadence simulations are really good, Altium is not good in simulation. Also, a lot of big boards have reference designs in Cadence, this can save you a lot of time and money.

4) Your boards are used in mechanical complex design: consider Altium. I talked to some engineers who use Altium, because it helps them to work closely with mechanical guys.

5) Learning for future: If you are planning to be a hardware design engineer, learn both softwares

I am not sure if these points will help you, or they will confuse you even more

PS: Non of these companies is paying me, nor Altium nor Cadence, but I do have some free licenses from them.

[oyvkar]

We did a comparison of these two earlier this year. Our main concern was finding a software that would let us design boards with extremely many components (10 000 +). Our findings were that Altium would stop working after placing about 3000 to 4000 components on the board, while OrCAD/Allegro continues working, although with some slowdowns, beyond 20 000 components. Might be worth considering if you need to design very large/complex boards.

[Ice-Tea]

Just wondering... Was that Altium 17 or 18?

[oyvkar]

This was around the time of Altium 18's release, so we tried both AD17 and AD18. My memory is a bit hazy on the performance of Altium 17, but I believe it handled about 1000 to 2000 components before halting. Altium 18 was much better in that regard, handling 3000 to 4000, as mentioned.

[Ice-Tea]

Interesting... Thanks. At least the switch to 64 bit under the hood was not a total waste 

[LTimko]

Based on the information I have, OrCAD Professional starts at $2K (for a standalone license)
...
You only buy a few expensive licenses and a lot of work can be done with cheap $443 license (I think that is current price for OrCAD Standard).

I'm afraid these softwares cost more than you think:

• OrCAD PCB Designer Standard - New, Perpetual License $2,670.00
• OrCAD PCB Designer Standard - New, 1 Year Lease $1,340.00
• OrCAD PCB Designer Professional - New, Perpetual License $7,040.00
• OrCAD PCB Designer Professional - New, 1 Year Lease $2,300.00

Source: https://www.ema-eda.com/products/cadence-orcad/orcad-pcb-designer-suite/pricing