Tobiscope design (with instructions from the CIA)

[EE54]

I’m sorry but if you want to speak in terms of science then ask me to watch Final Fantasy as it could help me understand your ideas of pranic healing, it gets kinda hard to take you even semi seriously.

[coppercone2]

FYI there is precedent for light therapy being useful for healing wounds.

If you take a bright red light, and shine it into your hand, its like a x-ray. Its hard to imagine its not doing anything when you see it. I would not totally trash light based therapy based on previous findings.

[TimFox]

"Phototherapy" is a common treatment for various skin problems.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/24385-phototherapy-light-therapy

[Bud]

Ok, ok, we will not, we promise.

[Kim Christensen]

Ok, ok, we will not, we promise.

[Kim Christensen]

Please tell me.  Is there any concept elsewhere about why for example the color green has characteristics of cleansing, while color blue is stabilizing and color red is strengthening? Any analogy of this in other area?

I think it's just cultural and will vary between different societies. Humans tend to project their feelings onto inanimate objects. Probably a result of our evolution.

[TimFox]

In medieval Europe and England, "green" represented infidelity and "blue" represented fidelity.
See the famous English song "Greensleeves" and Chaucer's "Squire's Tale" in the Canterbury Tales.
Much of this is irrelevant to those who have any of the various forms of color blindness.
An interesting question was once posted to a literary forum:  the author was writing an historical novel, set in medieval England, and needed a word for "orange", since the fruit was not yet known in England at the time of the action, but obviously existed as an optical phenomenon.
In Old English, when the fruit was unknown, the color was called "geoluhread", or yellow-red.

[Kim Christensen]

These colors you experience sound a lot like something called synesthesia.

[TimFox]

My favorite literary example of synesthesia is Inspector Montelbano in the police procedurals written by Andrea Camilleri.
It's not clear that synesthesia improved his detective skills.

[TimFox]

No, such an instrument is very easy to make.
If you don't know how to make one, it is probably not safe for you to use one.

[Bud]

What good stuff do you smoke, mate?

[Kim Christensen]

Kim or others retired. Can you help me coin a new term and technique for this.

I think that would be up to you since you talk the lingo. Just be careful of words that have multiple meanings across languages.
But, I did find you a Tobiscope song:

[Kim Christensen]

In Tiller book Science and Human Transformation. He mentioned a group of researchers experiment with cooper wall with isolated ground. What is the relevance of cooper wall?  Why not aluminum wall or plain metal wall?

They mean copper which is one of the better materials for a faraday cage which we talked about a while back. They probably were just picking up static charges on the "floating" copper sheets.

[Kim Christensen]

I still think it's simply static charges or other EC anomalies and nothing to do with human mystical "powers". The person is sitting on an isolated chair so it doesn't really matter where the electrode is placed on the person. Sorry, I don't buy it.

[Kim Christensen]

Absolutely no proof of anything in that article. Just claims.
The phase "Qi energy" on it's own is enough to debunk it.

[Kim Christensen]

Is the mind all in the brain?

Yes. That's all there is to it. Fear and ego prevents most people from facing this simple truth.

[Kim Christensen]

The odd of guessing it right is all the objects in the world

It isn't though. Since you are close to the individual, you have shared experiences, environment, etc, and thus shared memories of objects. Odds are much lower than you'd think.
Even with these better odds, I've never experienced it working consistently and never seen anyone else prove that it works beyond random chance.

[EE54]

Is it so hard for you to just link the book/articles and tell us the page numbers you’re talking about?
Like “Pranic Healing Basis - Pg 23-26” would be much more effective and does NOT clog up the site.

Secondly, you can’t just dump all this pranic healing mumbo jumbo on us then go “here, debunk if you can”. It’s up to the party making the extraordinary claims to prove themselves, not the other way around.

Finally, I’m not sure how comfortable we are in assisting you considering you want to start your own healing school and potentially profit of this.

[Kim Christensen]

But are there other important aspects of reality that we are not seeing, aspects that are beyond even our technological grasp? According to the holographic model, the answer is yes.

But that's the thing: We can "see" and hear things outside of the normal human range because we've built devices to detect all kinds of audio/EMF frequencies, particles, chemicals, IR, UV, etc. The "holographic model" is not required.

Sorry man, I just can't bring myself to read all that. The foundation of the entire article is based on vitalism which has been debunked a long time ago.
You're like a salesman trying to sell me a house with no foundation by pointing out all the wonderful workmanship elsewhere.

[Kim Christensen]

1. Practical. What happens if biology doesn't have any biofield. Simple. Try not sleeping for days. When you don't sleep and your biofield is so weak, it can't absorb any prana/qi, and your biofield very weak.

No. This doesn't prove that prana/qi exists at all. Lack of knowledge about something does not automatically mean that "god did it" or "it must be biofield". That's not how science works.

2. Technical. Why do we need nadis or this extended field in our biology. Here i'll debunk the following paragraph in wiki of vitalism.
----SNIP-----
Likewise the Biofield can synchronize the whole organism. Here let me invoke Dr. Nordenstrom Biologically Closed Electric Circuits (Ok EE54, I won't quote any part, just download the whole book if interested).
----SNIP-----
In the future everything will just fall into place.

How did that debunk Friedrich Wöhler's debunking of Jöns Jakob Berzelius's vitality theory?
It didn't. The fact is that prana/qi's existence has never been proven scientifically.

[Kim Christensen]

It's like saying when you explode a grenade. A laptop suddenly assembly into place in the debris.

Except no one is saying that. The universe is apx 13.7 billion years old. (Earth is apx 4.5 billion years old) That's how long it took for humans to appear and build the first laptop on Earth. Hardly "suddenly" by any stretch of the imagination. We built a lot of things before that 1st laptop... It's almost like it was an "evolution" of knowledge...

[bonyz]

It's like saying when you explode a grenade. A laptop suddenly assembly into place in the debris.

Except no one is saying that. The universe is apx 13.7 billion years old. (Earth is apx 4.5 billion years old) That's how long it took for humans to appear and build the first laptop on Earth. Hardly "suddenly" by any stretch of the imagination. We built a lot of things before that 1st laptop... It's almost like it was an "evolution" of knowledge...

No. I'll explain. It's related to so called Fine Tuned Universe. See: (below is one Occult Hypothesis of Big Bang origin)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_universe

"The characterization of the universe as finely tuned suggests that the occurrence of life in the universe is very sensitive to the values of certain fundamental physical constants and that other values different from the observed ones are, for some reason, improbable.[1] If the values of any of certain free parameters in contemporary physical theories had differed only slightly from those observed, the evolution of the universe would have proceeded very differently, and "life as we know it" (LAWKI) may not have been possible.[2][3][4][5]"

They just can't find any equations that could produce the constants or how the building blocks were made so they revert to Multiverse as one plausible scenerio:

"If the universe is just one of many, and possibly infinite universes, each with different physical phenomena and constants, it would be unsurprising that we find ourselves in a universe hospitable to intelligent life (see multiverse: anthropic principle). Some versions of the multiverse hypothesis therefore provide a simple explanation for any fine-tuning.[1]

The multiverse idea has led to considerable research into the anthropic principle and has been of particular interest to particle physicists, because theories of everything do apparently generate large numbers of universes in which the physical constants vary widely. As yet, there is no evidence for the existence of a multiverse, but some versions of the theory make predictions of which some researchers studying M-theory and gravity leaks hope to see some evidence soon.[30]: 220–221  Laura Mersini-Houghton claimed that the WMAP cold spot could provide testable empirical evidence for a parallel universe.[31] Variants of this approach include Lee Smolin's notion of cosmological natural selection, the Ekpyrotic universe, and the bubble universe theory."

See the url.  Which do you choose? 

[Kim Christensen]

I lean towards the "anthropic principle". It's the same reason I don't need to believe in the human soul: What came before and after our existence is irrelevant because it matters not to the person or species doing the observing.
Multiple "dead" universes could have come and gone before this one. It doesn't really matter to us because we only live in this one.
I did not suffer for billions of years awaiting my birth, nor will I notice the eons passing after my death.
Likewise, it doesn't matter to humanity if there were/are multiple universes. It doesn't effect us at all.
The "powerful laws" are the result of a roll of the cosmic dice (To coin a phrase). Turns out this one was a winner. We have no choice but to play by the rules.

[bonyz]

In Tiller book Science and Human Transformation. He mentioned a group of researchers experiment with cooper wall with isolated ground. What is the relevance of cooper wall?  Why not aluminum wall or plain metal wall?

They mean copper which is one of the better materials for a faraday cage which we talked about a while back. They probably were just picking up static charges on the "floating" copper sheets.

I just learnt Ingo Swann tried the Cooper wall room. https://doctorlib.info/psychiatry/psychic-sexuality/18.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingo_Swann

"In 1989, Ingo Swann was invited by Dr. Elmer Green at the Menninger Foundation to participate in experiments involving physical energy fields, body, electricity, and states of consciousness. The experiments were conducted within an elaborate electrostatic "copper wall environment," the design of which was based on an ancient Asian technique to activate and enhance clairvoyance and lucidity. As a result of the numerous experimental sessions undertaken, Swann's clairvoyance increased tremendously. Various states of lucid consciousness were achieved with respect to "seeing" vivid details of invisible energetic fields and phenomena of the biological body and its astonishing higher-energy systems. "

[bonyz]

I already deleted most of my messages here because I've been avoiding something for a long time. Ingo Swann described the point well. I'll need to share this before I delete it tomorrow.

The problem with Anthropic Principle is you can miss something crucial like if there are ingredients that created fine tuning or hidden dynamics and you can control the ingredients/dynamics. Then you got extra degree of freedom.



Quoting Ingo Swann in "Penetration":



You see. We have a soul (the white thing). A Mahatma or Adept simply have more of their consciousness focused on the soul. And they can access its power and greater forces behind the outward apperance. And there are "visitors" in our world that simply don't have soul. Ingo Swann can detect them because they don't have any Biofield. If you will read the books by John Keel and so many others. You will hear about Men in Black that are so awkward. That's because they are not humans. They don't have a soul. Biofield sensing can easily detect them. That's why they even threaten to eliminate those who can "see" the Biofield when the time comes when natural catastrophe, war, etc. eliminates the populations and their kinds can occupy the world. And even now. They have eliminated many as John Keel detailed in his books. So no. I won't open any healing center at all and create sensitives  who can sense Biofield and become threat to them. Pranic healing have guts because Adept help found it. Only Adepts can overcome the Bio-androids. In the past. Mahatmas/Adepts are more earth based. Now they also deal with  things out of this earth. I don't want to be caught in the crossfire. There are better things to do than risk it for nothing.