Pokit

[EEVblog]

Dark grey and yellow colour option? I foresee a sternly-worded letter from Fluke's lawyers coming their way.

I think that issue was with the yellow holster?

[NichPokit]

Maybe the USB connection is properly isolated?

In that size and space, and given that it has to have isolated charging as well and not just comms, I greatly doubt it. But I could be wrong, charging current won't be high.

Other than engineering issues, the whole point of this kind of meter is still questionable IMO. Oh well.

Yep, niche use IMO. The phone interface adds little real value over a proper probe pen based multimeter, and you have to rely on it being charged and and your phone being charged and working.
But people love the concept, that's why they buy it, not because it's of more value than a pen multimeter.

Hi all,

I'm one of the hardware engineers working on the Pokit Pro.
We're not just claiming 600V CAT III compliance, we'll be getting it formally validated with a testing house. We've already done some consulting to ensure our design is on the right track.

The USB is indeed fully isolated. Note that the USB is purely for charging, no data. Fitting all of this in with the required creepage and clearance distances was tough, but that's what we've had to do to comply, so that's what we've done. Charging current isn't very high as the battery isn't very large.

The main advantage of the smartphone connection is the portable oscilloscope functionality. A stand-alone product this size can't support a large enough screen and control surface to be an oscilloscope worth using.

[jeroen79]

I'm one of the hardware engineers working on the Pokit Pro.

Welcome!

The specs say that it can measure up to 10A.
What kind of protections are there against, for example, sticking it in a mains outlet while in current mode thinking it is in voltage mode?

[bluey]

I’m confused. The specs say it will do 60V DC 43V AC but the renderings show 110-238V DC.
https://pokitmeter.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwhtT1BRCiARIsAGlY51L9XUlHz3846UtT_1srSXOKGIuLm2qxmXftfH5WtDy2tBKedWEk3QgaAn1qEALw_wcB

Hard to see how it can compete with cheap chinese DMM and pocket oscilloscope.

Protection is by bluetooth. If the gadget blows up, your phone is ok. Could be cheaper to send out a new one than engineer protection.

[thm_w]

Buy from digikey: https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/p/pokit-innovations/pokit-meter

I’m confused. The specs say it will do 60V DC 43V AC but the renderings show 110-238V DC.
https://pokitmeter.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwhtT1BRCiARIsAGlY51L9XUlHz3846UtT_1srSXOKGIuLm2qxmXftfH5WtDy2tBKedWEk3QgaAn1qEALw_wcB

Hard to see how it can compete with cheap chinese DMM and pocket oscilloscope.

Protection is by bluetooth. If the gadget blows up, your phone is ok. Could be cheaper to send out a new one than engineer protection.

They were probably shooting for 100V+ but due to regulations/design/etc didn't achieve it. So old renderings. The fuses they use for example, what voltage would they be rated to?
But they still call it a CATIII 600V meter.

[Haenk]

I’m confused. The specs say it will do 60V DC 43V AC but the renderings show 110-238V DC.

Check the Kickstarter-page, there is a comparison sheet. The raised specs are for the "Pokit PRO", the lower specs are for the "Pokit" (non-PRO).

Still expecting smoke

And then - another missed Kickstarter timeframe - delivery May 2020 seems kind of unlikely if they are still in development state.

[AVGresponding]

It's difficult to tell from the pictures what those fuses are, but at a guess they're something like a 1210 package.

That would give them a voltage rating of 125VAC/65VDC with a measly 100A interrupt capacity.

https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2/54/bourns_03262018_SF-1210SxxxW_datasheet-1314529.pdf

[Haenk]

Again, that's the standard "Pokit" (non-Pro).

But - they are already listing the spare fuses for the "Pro" (which look OK for 600V 10A):

https://shop.pokitmeter.com/products/pokit-pro-fuse-set

[Cyberdragon]

Again, that's the standard "Pokit" (non-Pro).

But - they are already listing the spare fuses for the "Pro" (which look OK for 600V 10A):

https://shop.pokitmeter.com/products/pokit-pro-fuse-set

Are they actual HRC fuses though?

[AVGresponding]

From the proportions in the pic those look like ceramic M205's. That's a pretty basic level of protection, and well short of what you get from even a 6.3mm x 32mm, and not even in the same universe (exaggeration) as a 10mm x 38mm.

https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2/643/ds-CP-0adkx-series-1218961.pdf

[NichPokit]

Hi,

Sorry to bump a dead thread, but I figured I'd answer some of the questions.

It really will be a 600V CAT III multimeter, with appropriate protection circuitry. We'll be formally certifying it to 61010-1 and 61010-33.

Just before the kickstarter, we originally intended to release a 300V CAT II product. That fuse is from the older design, we've now bumped up to 6.3 x 32mm. Our Industrial designer was not pleased!

I'm one of the hardware engineers working on the Pokit Pro.

Welcome!

The specs say that it can measure up to 10A.
What kind of protections are there against, for example, sticking it in a mains outlet while in current mode thinking it is in voltage mode?

This sort of forseeable misuse is covered in the standard, so we have thought of that.
When you've got the device in the low current measurement range (with the physical switch on the side), there's some big diodes to clamp the voltage. They're sized so that either the fuse blows, or if there's not enough current to blow the 500mA fuse they can happily dissipate the power forever.

If you're in the high current measurement range, the shunt resistor will blow the high current fuse (if there's not enough current to blow the fuse, it's also sized appropriately to dissipate the power indefinitely)

[AVGresponding]

Sorry to bump a dead thread, but I figured I'd answer some of the questions.

No need to apologise; it's nice to get some feedback from a manufacturer that doesn't consist of blowing smoke/marketing wank/pseudo science bs.

Though the Pokit doesn't fit any of my personal use criteria, it's plain to see you are at least making some serious efforts to create a worthwhile product.

For maximum credibility however, I suspect you'll have to send some sacrificial lambs to the likes of Dave and Joe, for teardown/analysis and test-until-failure.

[EEVblog]

For maximum credibility however, I suspect you'll have to send some sacrificial lambs to the likes of Dave and Joe, for teardown/analysis and test-until-failure.[/color][/size][/b]

For the record, I'm not interested, for reasons I won't go into.

[JPortici]

https://www.smh.com.au/business/small-business/from-lab-to-boardroom-how-australian-inventors-become-founders-20190131-p50upv.html
Maybe Dave can give them a visit.

Sorry, won't happen, for reasons I won't go into.
Paul is a former colleague from way back, and coincidentally David used to work for them (they are a contract design house).
I'm sure the Pokit is going to be reasonably well engineered, so I wouldn't list it under Dodgy.

They just arrived here, boss ordered some from the campaign 2 years ago (at 50 each, now they cost more than three times that).
They indeed appear very well engineered and the app really works, you can also get data from multiple devices on the same phone and combine them.
He bought some so that he can send them to idiot customers that can't or won't use a multimeter and if they must they are completely clueless and refuse to learn something (mechanics, salesmen) such as it's really different if you say 2.5mV rather than 2.5V and we just wasted a day and an half over that.
Also to get the waveform from digital sensors so that we don't have to guess protocols.

Shall i make some tests?

[thm_w]

They just arrived here, boss ordered some from the campaign 2 years ago (at 50 each, now they cost more than three times that).
They indeed appear very well engineered and the app really works, you can also get data from multiple devices on the same phone and combine them.
He bought some so that he can send them to idiot customers that can't or won't use a multimeter and if they must they are completely clueless and refuse to learn something (mechanics, salesmen) such as it's really different if you say 2.5mV rather than 2.5V and we just wasted a day and an half over that.
Also to get the waveform from digital sensors so that we don't have to guess protocols.

Shall i make some tests?

That took a while.
Use care does make sense, but then, if the customers are that clueless they might have problems pairing to a phone and running the app. A simple voltmeter display might make more sense (if the customer is only going to be measuring voltage).

Looks like there is Pokit Pro as well ($175):
https://www.pokitinnovations.com/pokit-pro/

Specs are worse than Mooshimeter for the same price, but, form factor is quite different.

[JPortici]

actually we have four of the pro ones

Let's say that the level of cluelessness is high but not so high so they should be able to do three simple steps
1)flip the switch into "V"
2)open the app and go into voltage or scope mode
3)point the terminals at the thing they have to measure (granted, 1 out of 5 is not able to do that correctly, we may make an adapter cable just in case)
4)take a screenshot with the button conveniently present in the app and send it to us

pairing was sort of automatic, switch on -> open app -> go to add device, done.

We considered buying cheap usb scopes and sending it to them but there are two problems:
one is that they would never be able to operate one correctly, a meter is something that they may be more familliar with / less intimidated from,
the other is that most of the time they either don't have a computer or have an ancient one but a good functioning smartphone, oh yes they have one

these are also mechanics that don't have a freaking scan tool, which may have been fine 20 years ago but today with the amount of electronics cobbled together popping up errors randomly on stock cars, usually communication faults, because the whole architecture is a clusterfuck of things rushed to release a diagnosis is a must, instead when they have to clear codes they are fine taking half an hour to go to a friend of theirs rather than buying a generic scan tool for 5 euro on amazon or ebay that works 95% of the time (in fact we also bught a lot of those and resell to them)

The problem with regular multimeters is that they are unable to read them correctly (as i mentioned they will say like 2.5 without specifying the unit and a day and a half later when you can't find the problem and repeat the measurement it comes out that it was millivolts. Of course if you asked them the first time they said the wrong one.) or they have broken screens because you know things get dropped but it still works so we won't change this 5 euro piece of shit meter. I was thinking to get some of the newer pocket meters with just three buttons so it's in autorange all of the time - oh yes ranges are a problem too - but this has a scope function that actually works quite well.

Again, imagine give a scope to these people, i actually had to do once, we needed some measurement on this really strange fuel pressure sensor that we found only in a variant of dodge ram apparently present only in costa rica and i needed to see the waveform so our guy called his friend which apparently was good in electronics (spoiler alert: not) that had a scope, which was more or less one of those toys scope from velleman with a 128x64 monochrome screen. Our guy provided translation but it was really difficult to get what we wanted, but in the end he made it. This took three days to set up the meeting and about four hours of my time to babysit two people, one speaking a different language for which i don't know any words. One of these pokit is going to this guy straight away.

Re: Mooshimeter, yes the form factor is quite different, it's again something that might frighten these people less. Specs aren't everything.

[thm_w]

The problem with regular multimeters is that they are unable to read them correctly (as i mentioned they will say like 2.5 without specifying the unit and a day and a half later when you can't find the problem and repeat the measurement it comes out that it was millivolts. Of course if you asked them the first time they said the wrong one.) or they have broken screens because you know things get dropped but it still works so we won't change this 5 euro piece of shit meter. I was thinking to get some of the newer pocket meters with just three buttons so it's in autorange all of the time - oh yes ranges are a problem too - but this has a scope function that actually works quite well.

I was referring to just basic chassis mount volt meters, that will only give you a voltage reading, thats it.

But yeah if you need waveforms, etc this seems like quite a good solution for you.

[niner_007]

Got mine today, didn’t have a chance to unpack it yet. I supported this campaign in 2020, it took 2+ years to deliver, that part was very disappointing I have a mooshimeter, we’ll see how it compares

[Fredderic]

I supported this campaign in 2020, it took 2+ years to deliver, that part was very disappointing

Same.

Regarding pen multimeters, they are fine at a desk in good lighting — where you usually have a proper multimeter or five available and don't actually need them.  But as soon as you're working on anything at an odd angle and approaching arms limit, trying to decide whether it needs to be pulled out and/or apart to take back to the desk…  Most times I've tried to use a pen style multimeter, they've been useless because I couldn't see the darned screen.  My hope is that this thing, I can use at arms length, with the phone propped up in sight, and I'm not going to accidentally tug a lead and send it toppling into ghod knows what (which has happened with a "proper" multimeter before) — or worst case, have someone else holding the phone and reading out what it says.

I have the phone app for the 121GW also, which has been useful in similar circumstances — but that's usually when you don't have a good/stable place to sit a larger normal multimeter.  I also don't carry the 121GW or similar larger meters around with me everywhere I go, the Pokit has a nice and much smaller padded carry pouch, and no screen to break.

I would be very interested in a decent review of it, though…  But even if it's only as good as the cheapest regular multimeters, the pen form factor and detached screen has still been worth having so far (and I haven't even had it very long).  Do I trust it to be super-accurate?  Not really.  And will I ever use it anywhere near it's rating?  Most likely not.  Those occasions are what the big ones back on the bench are for — I got the Pokit for it's portability and form factor, because someone I knew said the previous Pokit meter they had was "decent enough", and I'd wished for the phone as the screen thing several times before coming across this one (that was a not insignificant factor in getting a 121GW).

[niner_007]

Played a bit. Accuracy out of the box is not very good, quite a bit off when measuring against a PVS mini, the probe wire attachment is flimsy, and if it snaps, I don't see how you fix it, as the unit is glued together, they really should've used a connector on the top. Oscilloscope feature does not work, too slow and huge latency.