Taking on the 5G nutjobs

[james_s]

I don’t have one. There is no magic. There are just magicians.

....I suspect that you are also a very rational thinker....

Don't count on it, he's an iPhone user...   

I'm also an iphone user, what does that tell you?

It's not as if I have 10 different platforms to choose from. There are *two* viable mobile OS choices and they both suck. It's less a choice of which one I like more but which one I hate less. Ultimately there are two primary reasons I went with an iphone. One is my friends in Canada have them and with iMessage I can text them for free, conventional SMS messages cost money, an absurd amount of money for what they are.

The other is that every decent Android phone I've seen is gigantic. My iPhone SE is the perfect size, it's smaller than any modern Android phone I'm aware of, the newer generation SE that has replaced it is larger than I'd like so I intend to hold onto mine as long as I can.

I'd love to have a 4" phone with an OLED display that runs straight Linux rather than these walled garden ecosystems but such a beast does not exist, so I'll stick to the devil I know and live with the aspects I don't like, because I have no choice that is sufficiently better.

[AVGresponding]

I don’t have one. There is no magic. There are just magicians.

....I suspect that you are also a very rational thinker....

Don't count on it, he's an iPhone user...   

I'm also an iphone user, what does that tell you?

It's not as if I have 10 different platforms to choose from. There are *two* viable mobile OS choices and they both suck. It's less a choice of which one I like more but which one I hate less. Ultimately there are two primary reasons I went with an iphone. One is my friends in Canada have them and with iMessage I can text them for free, conventional SMS messages cost money, an absurd amount of money for what they are.

The other is that every decent Android phone I've seen is gigantic. My iPhone SE is the perfect size, it's smaller than any modern Android phone I'm aware of, the newer generation SE that has replaced it is larger than I'd like so I intend to hold onto mine as long as I can.

I'd love to have a 4" phone with an OLED display that runs straight Linux rather than these walled garden ecosystems but such a beast does not exist, so I'll stick to the devil I know and live with the aspects I don't like, because I have no choice that is sufficiently better.

It's a bit of a standing joke between bd139 and I.

He likes the relatively secure OS and some other conveniences that an iPhone provides, I have a chronic distaste for Apple products, and even more so regarding their marketing, and proscriptive business practices.

[SilverSolder]

It's a shame Microsoft/Nokia gave up...   and Blackberry.

[CJay]

It's a shame Microsoft/Nokia gave up...   and Blackberry.

I don't think they gave up as such, they lost their way, badly.

I used one of Nokia's last smartphones pre the MS buyout, it was a beautiful device and the OS looked wonderful.

When it worked.

Maybe I got a bad one but it was terrible, apps stopped working and then refused to work again until the device was reset, the major feature I needed at the time from a smartphone was sat nav and messaging, neither worked reliably.

Sadly I had to send it back and I got a HTC Android device instead.

[bd139]

They alienated their entire developer community twice.  That’s what killed it.

[magic]

I'm also an iphone user, what does that tell you?

Surely outs you as a smpartphone addict

There are *two* viable mobile OS choices and they both suck.

Can't disagree with that

[james_s]

I'm also an iphone user, what does that tell you?

Surely outs you as a smpartphone addict

I guess I'm a smartphone addict in the same way that I'm a computer addict, a car addict and a chair addict. They are all tools that I possess and use on a daily basis or nearly daily basis.

Personally I would consider "addict" to describe someone who has a large than average number of a given device and upgrades much more frequently than necessary. I've owned a grand total of two smartphones in my life. Used the first one for almost 5 years until updates had made it almost unusably slow. I've had the second one for around 4 years now and it's still going strong, I'll replace it when it fails.

[magic]

Well, I am a computer addict but I don't have a smartphone

And I wouldn't say that all computers suck (mine don't ), but all smartphones do indeed.

[SilverSolder]

There are *two* viable mobile OS choices and they both suck.

I understand Huawei is working on a "third alternative"?  Could be interesting with some real competition.

[DrG]

Thinking takes effort, and people are mostly lazy, and prefer to let other people do their thinking for them.

....and some people confuse letting other people doing their thinking with freedom.

[madires]

There are *two* viable mobile OS choices and they both suck.

I understand Huawei is working on a "third alternative"?  Could be interesting with some real competition.

There are many more (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_operating_system), but they have just a teeny tiny market share.

[bd139]

There are *two* viable mobile OS choices and they both suck.

I understand Huawei is working on a "third alternative"?  Could be interesting with some real competition.

I bet the entire user interface will be Times New Roman like a Rigol error message 

[SilverSolder]

There are *two* viable mobile OS choices and they both suck.

I understand Huawei is working on a "third alternative"?  Could be interesting with some real competition.

I bet the entire user interface will be Times New Roman like a Rigol error message 

 

Who knows, maybe Huawei will launch a product that isn't advertising sponsored and doesn't track users?  It would be an interesting move!

[bd139]

You do realise Huawei is a Chinese company don't you? 

[SilverSolder]

You do realise Huawei is a Chinese company don't you? 

I'm a picky consumer and believe in free markets - if the best product for me is made in China, I buy it there...  if made in USA, I buy it there...  if made in EU, I buy it there!   

[james_s]

Well, I am a computer addict but I don't have a smartphone

And I wouldn't say that all computers suck (mine don't ), but all smartphones do indeed.

You have many choices with computers, you can buy a Macbook, or you can buy any one of scores of different Windows PCs in a multitude of different form factors, or you can build your own PC, or you can go with one of the SBCs like the Raspberry Pi, or you can install one of a dizzying array of Linux distros on any of these. You can even use a vintage machine if you desire, and if the latest version of some software doesn't work to your liking you can install an older version instead. If some aspect of your older machine is not to your liking you can upgrade it while keeping the rest. There are so many choices that you can find something suitable for almost any need.

With smartphones none of that is true. You can buy an iPhone out of a very limited selection that are mostly huge and have that awful notch in the display and be locked into Apple's walled garden, you will be forced to use the latest version of everything and if an update breaks an app too bad, you can't go back. If some aspect of the hardware is insufficient, tough shit, you can't upgrade it. You will do everything their way and you will like it, or you will leave. Or you can buy one of a range of phones running Android, most of them also huge, also locked into a walled garden although typically easier to break out if you're the technical type, and you have a bit more freedom in general but in my experience they also feel significantly less polished and more glitchy. If you don't like the experience, tough, your other option is Apple. Those are really the only two choices and I don't really like either one. Upgradeable hardware beyond a SD card socket for storage is not really feasible in the phone form factor but I would love to have something based on a full Linux distro that is "rooted" right out of the box and completely open for me to tinker as I please but that isn't currently a viable choice.

[PlainName]

I would love to have something based on a full Linux distro that is "rooted" right out of the box and completely open for me to tinker as I please

Planet Computer's Gemini and Cosmo Communicator?

The main problem, as Microsoft found when they ported Windows to PDAs, is that desktop OSs don't actually work very well in a phone form factor. A linux command line is pants when you're using an onscreen touch keyboard, and a decent line of text is going to need either 18-year-old eyesight or thick glasses. Android and IOS score massively because they are designed for the phones, and that's also why they are pants on the desktop. I think if you ever got your hands on a Linux phone you'd give it up as a bad job and switch to a phone OS of some flavour in the end.

[james_s]

When I say "linux distro" I don't mean a linux desktop OS. I mean specifically a phone OS, but one that is based on linux and follows the completely open model used by other linux distros. The command line is a non starter but should be available by ssh into the device. An app store is also a necessity but it should not be the only source of apps. In practice there is probably not enough space in the market for more than two viable mobile platforms but I can dream. I just hate the locked down walled garden/SAAS model, I want control over my device. I want the freedom to choose a graphical environment and tweak it to my liking. If they pull an Apple and replace a beautiful polished and consistent UI like iOS 6 had with an ugly inconsistent mess like iOS7 and later I want to be able to go back to the icons I like. If there's a stupid feature I NEVER use like the social media integration that was there through many versions I want to be able to rip it out. If an app update introduces a serious bug that makes the app unusable for a month until the vendor fixes it like happened a couple years ago with the Amcrest security camera app I want to be able to roll back to the previous version. I'd also like an app store that had a paid upgrade model, I absolutely loathe the subscription model that Apple has been pushing and their refusal to allow paid upgrades instead. I don't rent software, period, that is not negotiable. Frequent updates are not a feature, they are a nuisance.

[PlainName]

Maybe something here might suit: https://itsfoss.com/open-source-alternatives-android/

[bd139]

About 10 minutes of any OSS mobile OS always makes me crawl back to Apple willingly.

Quite frankly I want something that actually works. Getting too old to spend 2 weeks pissing around with something to get it half as usable as something off the shelf under some vague ideology of freedom. Freedom turns out to be slavery to maintenance. Fuck that.

[CJay]

About 10 minutes of any OSS mobile OS always makes me crawl back to Apple willingly.

Quite frankly I want something that actually works. Getting too old to spend 2 weeks pissing around with something to get it half as usable as something off the shelf under some vague ideology of freedom. Freedom turns out to be slavery to maintenance. Fuck that.

Meh, I get on with both, Android and iOS, now got one of each.

I prefer Android but iOS mostly works, it's a PITA when you have an ever shifting ISEC policy though, you can go to bed one night and wake up to find your device won't connect to a corp resource.

iOS seems to have more problems with security than Android but as we're a majority iOS shop here it may just they have more prominence.

[james_s]

I'd like iOS a lot better if it was jailbroken out of the box, and if they'd stop releasing a whole new version of it every year, I don't remember the last time they added a feature that I cared about, it's just a hassle having to update it so frequently and lose access to apps that used to work because they were abandoned and don't work on the new OS. On multiple occasions the result of an OS update is that some stuff that worked fine no longer works and my phone is slower than it was before.

[bd139]

I buy a flagship every 2 years and sell the old one. It's only if you tail end the lifespan of any phone you end up with all the problems.

[SilverSolder]

I buy a flagship every 2 years and sell the old one. It's only if you tail end the lifespan of any phone you end up with all the problems.

Still using a comparatively ancient Samsung S5 here with no problems.  Five day battery life from enormous aftermarket battery, which is replaceable (I replace annually since they cost little).  Runs fast, haven't come across any app it won't run.  Has SD card slot and headphone jack.  Not sure I'd be able to find a new phone that works as well as this! 

[james_s]

I buy a flagship every 2 years and sell the old one. It's only if you tail end the lifespan of any phone you end up with all the problems.

I expect at least 4 years out of a phone, 10 years is not completely unreasonable anymore. The tech has plateaued, there hasn't been a new feature I care about in years and the only reason older phones keep getting slow is because they keep adding useless bloat. It's a constant arms race between hardware getting more powerful and software sucking up more CPU cycles. The upgrade cycle is almost completely artificially constructed to keep selling phones.

All the flagship phones are gigantic, the original iPhone was the perfect size, the SE is ok too, the latest SE I could probably live with in a pinch but it's larger than I want. Sometimes I miss the tiny gumstick feature phone I had in the mid 2000's, it was absolutely tiny. Not practical for texting and browsing though.