Author Topic: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES  (Read 63842 times)

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Offline cdev

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #200 on: April 04, 2022, 11:17:54 pm »
Its never free. In America nothing is ever free, its intent is to entrap and expand..

Envelop you and legitimize the claim to everything essential.. Gaining astronomical revenues immunity from questioning. No matter how bad things get their rights can only be increased..  Its called "progressive liberalization"

Soon the entire world will be America, everywhere. So then their investment really pays back big. That is really how they see it, you are either American or soon to be one. Or be controlled by a corporation that is the American Imperium.

They got in on the ground floor when we were just in North America..

Anything to prevent prices, like drug and healthcare prices from collapsing..
« Last Edit: April 04, 2022, 11:25:19 pm by cdev »
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Offline PlainName

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #201 on: April 05, 2022, 12:00:19 am »


 


Quote
So he buys the equipment and PAYS to see it.

I think that's fair enough where you have a choice - it's an ongoing cost to the provider to supply the cloud service (just like your broadband is an ongoing cost to your ISP). You can't expect a vendor to sell a service for a cheap one-off price and then be around years later to fix your broken kit (or sell you more of the same).


Sure, you have a "choice", its a democracy..after all.  *wink*  (in truth it hasn't been one since 1995)

However, it's not really on if you elect not to use the vendors service and supply your own (direct connect over the LAN, for instance) but aren't allowed to for non-technical reasons.

It would be kind of OK if you knew upfront what you're buying into and then elect not to buy into it. But some of these vendors have a basic free service which magically gets more and more limited over time until you have to pay to get some functionality back. That's bait a switch, albeit in a long game.

Can you fix that quote, please. I didn't mention the word 'democracy' or wink.
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #202 on: April 05, 2022, 09:32:18 pm »
Some other NLEs might be able to import Premiere files?  Have you looked into that?

Thanks for the info.  Back then, after trying to re-activate for weeks, I became too annoyed to work on it anymore as the time.

I kept the files (if the HDD still works, been a few years).  I should check into if I could play some more tricks and see how I could get those exported.
 

Offline Scherms

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #203 on: April 05, 2022, 10:48:17 pm »
Some other NLEs might be able to import Premiere files?  Have you looked into that?

Thanks for the info.  Back then, after trying to re-activate for weeks, I became too annoyed to work on it anymore as the time.

I kept the files (if the HDD still works, been a few years).  I should check into if I could play some more tricks and see how I could get those exported.

Just do a search for "adobe premier activation patch"...  :-+
 

Offline cdev

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #204 on: April 06, 2022, 12:57:12 pm »
Why don't you call them and ask them what you can do, IMPORTANT have your install disks and your original serial number handy, so you can show them you do actually own the software. I dont know what you can do but I do know that if you legitimately own the product, they will likely try to help you even if you dont want to buy it again, just extract your files in a format you can use elsewhere. Adobe is a big company but they are real people who also have kids and home movies, etc.  Unfortunately Macromedia is no more. They were bought by Adobe who now own their various products.

Many file formats are "containers" which are wrappers around the files, and the files formats are discernable if you open the original files in a (sometimes) hex editor, an editor that can decode the binary parts of text files. Years ago when I worked for a space focused contract as a web developer, it was my job to decipher and translate for web use all sorts of fiile formats. And I did it really well, a lot of it. For a high tech scientific organization that produced a lot of it. The container file may also internally be XML, with the frames as CDATA. Unix shell utilities exist that could extract each frame as a binary file and save them with sequential file names. I used to often use an editor called Oxygen to work with these huge XML files. But one could also use Unix utilities.. one didnt need to use the commercial product. Its just a PITA doing things that way, (but once you start it you will collect scripts to do this and they oftentimes will run very rapidly on a decent machine.

When you save files, always double check that you can extract what you need before you finalize whatever you are doing. There used to be a number of raster image translation utilities that I made extensive use of that were good for this. One was the PBM utilities by Jef Pozanker. (for "raster" files)

On Mac OSX there also used to be a useful program called de-babelizer, that was able to work with a great many saved and compressed file formats.

If you can break your movies down to the original files, we're home free.

Companies deliberately making their own software incompatible because of upgrades really annoyed the government at that time, so the US government demanded and got, whenever they bought proprietary software under contract, they got the source code to it on a separate gold CDROM.  So, if it came down to that they could build the old software so that the original file format could be extracted.  They eventually developed something called "open source" which makes users iummune from these tricks.

Now the new government we have now, since the mid 1990s has been brainwashed by big corporations to reject the open source concept as a theft of their IP.  Its a very contentious issue but the fact is that there is no confusion in the computing community which all understands exactly what issues are at stake. Its the would nbe owners of IP, often developed by others as a gift to the users community under conditions that it would be shared that they try to frame as crooks. But hold on a second here, they did the work. They want their work to either be free to all, or if its owned, its owned by those who wrote it, period.  Where I live now, lots of people use all sorts of business software every day and they dont even know that such a thing as free software that legal, or free operating systems, they dont know that such a thing exists, or they have been brainwashed into thinking that is somehow illegal. What a shameless lie.

Its only illegal if its commercial software thats stolen. Thats what the person advocating you try to utilize various cracks or illegal patches wants you to do. Don't do it. Instead, as you do still own the original program, try to use what you have got and get your home movies back.

 The open software advocates dont know what weapons are being arrayed against them or why.   Its a battle for the future world. Will the future world be one where people can go on living withouit paying extra for every single thing that soime corporation can assert permanent rights to, even water and air, or not?

Lets take water mining. The model which corporations favor is one where whatever they can take, and establish as a norm, they can resell. Even if that leaves the common people with nothing. And then having to buy it - from them.

Lets face it, its a complicated thing, the writing of software. But its a group effort. Groups of people can do it, and do it well. Sometimes they want to share it, not sell it. That is not a crime. No criminality ios at workl there, at all. Its a gift to you.

Its to make it possible for a larger community of users to exist. In the hope that they will contribute their effort into the shared pot and make it better..

Its so those people, rich or poor can help!

Free and open source software is a big thing, which many folk are trying to keep hidden, by various tricks.

They want to monopolize the business of software development making it for the privileged only.

The rich only, basically.

 keep those poor people who cant afford huge made up prices for software which is intentionally given away for free by its writers. The foreign staffing companies are a big part of this. They claim that any requirement to use open source steals their "intellectual property" even though it saves communities and users a great deal of money. (So this doesnt make any sense) They dont like that frre software exists and is often used when it does. It may be quite high quality, and the documentation and support for it is free. SOmething like a commercial RDBMS can be insanely expensive.; It is used by the foreign staffing firms not because its good or affordable, its used toi keep all but them out. because its cost is another "costly screen" they find useful - A  barrier to entry that keeps competition out of what they consider to be their turf. They consider the tech jobs to be their half of a deal they made with oligarchs where they get what they want, jobs to broker off, and the other oligarchs get a right to all the ip they want. Even things like off patent drugs, that are essential for public health. If they had their way there would not be any generic drugs.

So, lets go back to your precious home movies of your family. If you still have the tapes, even if you think you erased over them, why dont you take a look at those tapes and see what exactly is on them today. There may be something you can use. If there are digital files, see if you can open any of them successfully.  Then see if a hex editor can see them.

If it could - chances are software exists that could turn compressed files back into uncompressed files. Such as folders of bitmaps.
Back in the day, I got files in that format all the time.

You can work with them using almost any movie program. Using the command line. Once you have a usable file, you can turn almost any movie file you made yourself of your kids or relatives back in the day, back into its underlying bitmaps, save them in a folder and if needed, re-compress them, fast and efficiently. Some of these utilities, although obscure are still around and still can be useful sometimes. 

If you can find the original files anywhere, chances are you can extract the underlying images and get your video back. 35 years ago the web was still in its infancy, movies online were still new and oftentimes, people started out with big folders of individual images to make any movie.

No need to try to go around their DRM, if you have the files, you can likely find a way to get your original movie files as they were initially, thats what you will need. They may be in MP2 or some other compressed animation format. Since you own premeire at the level you bought it (and hopefully retain the documentaion proving same) what you need is for it to still work as you bought it.

It may be tied to a specific OS level, say, Windows 98, or similar. You may need to run it on an older machine with the OS you had then. Ask them and make it clear that you are not trying to get anything new for free, just what you already paid for.

Do you still have your original Premiere install disks? They were a bunch of floppies or CD/DVDs, immediately recognizable because Adope Premiere is written on each one of them.

For future reference, you should know that those disks are your proof of ownership. You may also be able to buy a compatible upgrade version used, with a guarantee from the owner that it was usable now, or your money back. Look for used software for sale.  Here in the US you can buy and sell your old software, license and all. The IP industry just hates that, if they had their way, you would not be able to transfer ownership or even rent movies. This was a bitter loss for them that they view as a huge injury for them.

They are trying to take over the world. IMHO. Literally.  In contrast, Open Source and the open way of working can and does solve a lot of problems we're facing today.  One is the lack of qualified teachers. Open source, being free can be a huge help to the creative people who cant or wont spend thousands of dollars p[er application - and then additional money to take classes in school, when a free application might be as good, or sometimes even better.   One good example, is the free RDBMS, PostgreSQL. (https://PostgreSQL.org)

If you understand what an RDBMS is you probably also know how useful they can be.

Yes, you'll be saving thousands of dollars and enabling a huge increase in your business productivity. How do you think businesses like Apple, Amazon, Googloe and Facebook get their start? All four were started because of and using FOSS. If Foss didnt exist, none of them would exist today.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 02:23:03 pm by cdev »
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Offline Rick Law

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #205 on: April 06, 2022, 06:25:21 pm »
Why don't you call them and ask them what you can do, IMPORTANT have your install disks and your original serial number handy, so you can show them you do actually own the software. I dont know what you can do but I do know that if you legitimately own the product, they will likely try to help you even if you dont want to buy it again, just extract your files in a format you can use elsewhere. Adobe is a big company but they are real people who also have kids and home movies, etc.  Unfortunately Macromedia is no more. They were bought by Adobe who now own their various products.
...
...

I spend weeks and weeks trying to contact them then!  Yeah, I have the original discs, and the box, and the receipt of purchase.   I get bounced around and around and always ended up at only a robo-answering machine telling me I must activate on the (non-existing) server via the web.

That is why I was and still am sore at them.  It was personal so it was my own money and my own purchase.  That was pre-retirement so I  had better income then;  But over $1000usd was still a good chunk of change and excessively so when added in years of inflation. 

Granted, they may have a EULA somewhere that states it was merely a use-license instead of ownership -- I am not a lawyer, but the way I understood the law, I bet if I had the time and money to pursuit legal action I would win.  EULA is visible only post install, at which time the software is no longer in an unopened box, thus, return even if available is not always a full-refund.  That makes the alteration to the "visible contract" post transaction thus the EULA should not hold.  The visible contract being my sales slip of buying the box with nothing on the box saying I don't own it.  If my understand is correct, then they damaged my property by rendering my property non-functional.  The activation should be a perpetual one.  I accept not being able to install (or move) to a different machine after a healthy length of time, but an activated one should stay activated. 

 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #206 on: April 06, 2022, 06:52:05 pm »
Quote
I bet if I had the time and money to pursuit legal action I would win

This is why they get away with it - most people don't have the money to fight, and don't have the willpower to follow all the way. If you do have money, the time and inclination, they are big enough to just wear you down until, perhaps several years later, you are skint.

It would take a class action or similar to get anywhere, but for that to happen they would have to do something that pisses off a LOT of people all at the same time.
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #207 on: April 06, 2022, 09:53:35 pm »
I was looking at the Google cameras again and found this interesting:

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/5636875447571648535/reviews

Quote
Misleading to call this a "Nest" camera
MplsCustomer · Review provided by Best Buy 09 September 2021
It is misleading for Google to call this new Google Nest Camera Battery a "Nest" camera. It does not work with the Nest app along with all of our other Nest cameras. It cannot be accessed online from a computer along with our other Nest cameras on the Home Nest website. Further, unlike our other Nest cameras, we cannot manually edit clips from video history and cannot even gather a video clip from the Home Nest website from a computer.

Google says it's "committed to providing a seamless Home app experience for our [Nest camera] customers." Then why can't we configure our existing Google Nest cameras and doorbells and view their history from the Google Home app? Why can't we access the new Nest camera online from our computer? Why do we have to use two different apps to get notifications from our Google Nest cameras? Why does the new Nest camera not have the Enhance feature present on our existing Nest cameras to set zoom when recording history? Why can we only get email notifications from our existing Nest cameras and not this new Nest camera? This is NOT "seamless."

Releasing this camera without having this in place and instead promising to improve it sometime in the future is like selling a new car and saying "sorry, unlike your current car, reverse gear doesn't work right now, and the windows and air conditioning also don't work right now; we're working on adding those features in the future. And by the way, the old model is no longer available."

As a long-time Google Nest customer, I am profoundly unhappy with our new Google Nest camera, which we purchased because the previous Google Nest outdoor camera is no longer available.

This new camera is really a "beta" release and Google should be compensating customers for testing its as-yet-unfinished product.

So they capitalize on the name, copy it, brand it and then release their own version locking more and more features down.

Quote
Loses features from older generations
bkinnk · Review provided by Best Buy 12 October 2021
I'll start this out by saying I am a huge user of Google hardware products. Many Pixel phones, earbuds, Google Wifi, 2 Nest thermostats and several Nest Cam IQs. Generally super happy with them across the board.

Then we get to the new Nest Cam Battery. Was super excited for it since one of my Cam IQs died (and with warranty that's too short).

Ordered direct from Google, huge mistake there and should have purchased from BBY so I could have returned it.

My biggest gripe is that one MUST use the Google Home app to setup and control the new battery cams. As many other users have complained about this issue, I can also attest that the Home app is a terrible, terrible experience. Gone are the days where clicking on the Nest app brings up the camera feeds right away. Now you need to click on the Home app, then click on the Camera button and hope the cameras "connect." Also, if my battery cam is not plugged in I understand that it's not powered all of the time to conserve battery but don't you think when I click into Cameras in the Home app that I want to see that live view as well?

And then there's the online experience. Why remove the ability to view the footage on a PC????? I use that feature at least once a month and it's invaluable. *Oh well, guess Google knows better..... And there's no time stamp within the Home app so god forbid I need to send footage to someone they'll just need to guess when the recording was from. And finally, it's 2021. Why can't we have a 2k or 4k camera?

P.S. for the Google person that reads this, I don't want your typical form response that you're always listening. I don't believe that so don't waste our time with a canned response. Just please get this feedback to the product team so they can understand what paying customers think of their product they released too early and without much though/

So Google released a program for a computer but won't work with the newer models which sounds to me a bit similar to Dymo and their print driver where it would only print from their software to printer.

Now they are not happy anymore with the info they collect they have to dictate how the user uses the equipment what information the user sees and restrict the rest that they possibly collect themselves.

* A SUCKER is born every minute... wait a minute, this one was turned into a sucker by Google over time.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #208 on: April 06, 2022, 10:25:58 pm »
If you talk to Google employees, you rapidly discover that many are just itching to leave. They tell stories of all sorts of corporate abuses and are fearful of one another's snitching on them. It reminds me of a totalitarian state. (I have known many who grew up in them)

I avoid dealing with them as much as possible, I certainly would not depend on them in any way.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #209 on: April 06, 2022, 10:32:36 pm »
This is why the trend is to take as many cases as possible away from juries and turn them into "consent decrees" which are often bought fake and rigged to look like but not actually be "justice", In other words, corporations buy legal decisions which then serve as legal precedent locking down the future and creating new law. This is how trade deals work. They create new corporate law which is totally corporate owned. It is totally separate and apart from voters wishes and voting. Which dont matter. They wouldnt let the voters decide things so important to their profits. This is the future. Democracy-free .

They dont want to risk any decisons that threaten their property right in any way. Peter Drahos calls it Information Feudalism and his book by that name is really worth reading to understand what is being done and its huge cost to all society. Its a large scale theft of the world from its people, they wouldnt risk losinbg that to voters and voting. This outcome was preordained I think since the 1990s and the loss of democracy at that time. It fell to the creation of the WTO deal. Which is supposed to remake the entire world in a corporate mold. Its like Clemenceau once said about war. "War is too serious a matter to entrust to military men. "

Humanity can no longer have its interests protected as that would threaten the property of the elites or impede its free movement of capital, God forbid. All revolves around that. Its like the British set up double government to allow a democracy-free rule of the colonies, one where the people couldn't be effective in any way which adversely impacted profits.

Americans couldnt tolerate this so we left the UK. But they tried to stop us, now with the WTO they have brought back raw corporate rule,  autoarky back again. People should recognize its imprint on healthcare soon. WTO rules forbid public services, as they have been up until now.

Its a sleight of hand they think they will be able to pull off. Watch closely what happens to the pea in the old shell game.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 11:06:40 pm by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline cdev

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #210 on: April 06, 2022, 11:19:05 pm »
Link!  Seat Sale: License to Sit.


This really exists in the Los Angeles (greyhound) Bus Terminal. Remember, nothing is free in America.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 11:24:36 pm by cdev »
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Offline PlainName

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #211 on: April 06, 2022, 11:41:38 pm »
Quote
This really exists in the Los Angeles (greyhound) Bus Terminal.

Sorry, but I think not:

Quote
The opening was Wednesday Feb. 7th, at the San Francisco Art Institute (SFAI, 800 Chestnut St.), organized by Independent Curators International (ICI) of New York, and curated by Steve Dietz of walkerart.org (Walker Art Center) of Minneapolis. SeatSale was also exhibited at various other museums and galleries, such as Austin Museum of Art, Oklahoma City Museum of Art, etc..
 

Offline cdev

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #212 on: April 07, 2022, 12:36:19 am »
No, I meant the real version, not the art version. You have to pay to rent a chair to sit in. Otherwise you must stand.

The LA Bus Terminal is a particularly disagreeable one as such terminals go. The one that used to exist in the wine country of San Francisco (Sixth Street) was almost as bad. My mother almost got arrested there during the SF riots when she tried to stop a cop from arresting an innocent man.

I really miss my mother, sometimes, this outspoken truthfulness in the face of certain kinds of people is one of the things that I most admire her for.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2022, 12:42:34 am by cdev »
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Offline PlainName

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #213 on: April 07, 2022, 11:01:01 am »
Blimey!
 

Offline james_s

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #214 on: April 07, 2022, 05:01:03 pm »
The LA Bus Terminal is a particularly disagreeable one as such terminals go. The one that used to exist in the wine country of San Francisco (Sixth Street) was almost as bad. My mother almost got arrested there during the SF riots when she tried to stop a cop from arresting an innocent man.

One should never interfere with a police officer, that is a crime in itself. It is not for your mother or the officer to determine if the man is innocent, that is the job of the courts. IMHO innocent people other than law enforcement have no business anywhere near a riot unless they were passing through when it started.
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #215 on: April 07, 2022, 05:46:13 pm »
The LA Bus Terminal is a particularly disagreeable one as such terminals go. The one that used to exist in the wine country of San Francisco (Sixth Street) was almost as bad. My mother almost got arrested there during the SF riots when she tried to stop a cop from arresting an innocent man.

One should never interfere with a police officer, that is a crime in itself. It is not for your mother or the officer to determine if the man is innocent, that is the job of the courts. IMHO innocent people other than law enforcement have no business anywhere near a riot unless they were passing through when it started.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Your snap judgementalism is astonishing, given the almost complete lack of context available.
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Offline Rick Law

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #216 on: April 07, 2022, 08:28:44 pm »
The LA Bus Terminal is a particularly disagreeable one as such terminals go. The one that used to exist in the wine country of San Francisco (Sixth Street) was almost as bad. My mother almost got arrested there during the SF riots when she tried to stop a cop from arresting an innocent man.

One should never interfere with a police officer, that is a crime in itself. It is not for your mother or the officer to determine if the man is innocent, that is the job of the courts. IMHO innocent people other than law enforcement have no business anywhere near a riot unless they were passing through when it started.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Your snap judgementalism is astonishing, given the almost complete lack of context available.


Interfering with a law enforcement officer doing official duty is breaking the law here in the USA.  Snap judgement to not break the law (to interfere) is a good thing.

Obviously not all law enforcement officers are good, but most are.  Their IA (Internal Affairs) department watches over what they do, and body cam almost always provide definitive evidence when they failed.  The officers risk their life to protect us, we owe them the presumption that they are doing the right thing under most situations.  If and when the act appears so extraordinary to be questionable and potentially innocent folks are being harm, one should call 911 and report that the police on scene is not acting lawfully and physically doing harm.  Senior officer(s) and support will arrive to get the rouge-officer in control.

The alternative is anarchy.  Anarchy is defined as living in condition without legal authority.  That alternative is not a nice environment to be in.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #217 on: April 07, 2022, 09:41:30 pm »
As she described this to me He was doing nothing wrong. My mother was an intensely honest, religious person.

My mother held to her opinion and she was threatened. But I'm sure she was right. This terminal was a block from Market Street and people were jumpy that night. But this particular person was not involved in it. He was just traveling. Like many other people.

 (My mother was a smart cookie.

This isn't related but - trivia- she literally used to work for somebody who had been nominated for sainthood)

I live in the US where the situation with police can be complicated (as with politicians) and varies a lot from one place to another and one person to another.

I was in a situation like that once where I got fired from a job for refusing to falsely incriminate a shopper who my bosses son was trying to get arrested when in fact he had done nothing wrong. It went to a panel because I applied for unemployment after I lost my job. But I won.

There are certain people who are used to lying a lot and often getting their way but this is wrong.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2022, 09:45:32 pm by cdev »
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #218 on: April 08, 2022, 05:47:30 am »
The LA Bus Terminal is a particularly disagreeable one as such terminals go. The one that used to exist in the wine country of San Francisco (Sixth Street) was almost as bad. My mother almost got arrested there during the SF riots when she tried to stop a cop from arresting an innocent man.

One should never interfere with a police officer, that is a crime in itself. It is not for your mother or the officer to determine if the man is innocent, that is the job of the courts. IMHO innocent people other than law enforcement have no business anywhere near a riot unless they were passing through when it started.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Your snap judgementalism is astonishing, given the almost complete lack of context available.


Interfering with a law enforcement officer doing official duty is breaking the law here in the USA.  Snap judgement to not break the law (to interfere) is a good thing.

Obviously not all law enforcement officers are good, but most are.  Their IA (Internal Affairs) department watches over what they do, and body cam almost always provide definitive evidence when they failed.  The officers risk their life to protect us, we owe them the presumption that they are doing the right thing under most situations.  If and when the act appears so extraordinary to be questionable and potentially innocent folks are being harm, one should call 911 and report that the police on scene is not acting lawfully and physically doing harm.  Senior officer(s) and support will arrive to get the rouge-officer in control.

The alternative is anarchy.  Anarchy is defined as living in condition without legal authority.  That alternative is not a nice environment to be in.

Let us hope that your veil of naivete is not lifted by being the subject of unlawful action by police. History is littered with such examples, all over the world.
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #219 on: April 08, 2022, 05:54:19 pm »
Interfering with a law enforcement officer doing official duty is breaking the law here in the USA.

I don't know the US laws very well, but as a democracy, I'm guessing this is similar to many other democracies, so: yes, it is breaking the law, unless you as a citizen are witnessing an officer doing an unlawful exercise of their 'duty'.

For instance, if you're witnessing a cop beating up an old lady crying for help, I think you'd be entitled to interfer. That is an extreme example, but you get the idea. Of course by interfering, especially if you have no context, you know you are exposing yourself to potential trouble. And, if your reasons are well-founded, you better have other witnesses to back up your claim, and other evidence such as surveillance cameras and such...

 

Offline cdev

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #220 on: April 08, 2022, 06:28:16 pm »
The LA Bus Terminal is a particularly disagreeable one as such terminals go. The one that used to exist in the wine country of San Francisco (Sixth Street) was almost as bad. My mother almost got arrested there during the SF riots when she tried to stop a cop from arresting an innocent man.

One should never interfere with a police officer, that is a crime in itself. It is not for your mother or the officer to determine if the man is innocent, that is the job of the courts. IMHO innocent people other than law enforcement have no business anywhere near a riot unless they were passing through when it started.

Verbally objecting when she witnessed an injustice of some kind is not interference, so much as doing ones civic duty. You might be saving somebody's life in some situations.

I wasn't there but I have to say, she was likely to have been in the right, knowing her. Also the US was quite different then than now, for one thing the civil unrest at that time was a particularly touchy event as it involved the verdict in the Rodney King case. When my mother decided to visiit me in San Francisco. Unfortunately, SF was also far from peaceful on that day/night.

It was before the militarization of the police. There might have been CCTV cameras in that bus station but the cameras were not everywhere as they are now. So I dont know what happened. My mom who at that point was in her late 70s so she was an old lady, used to stand up for the underdog, as I remember. She also was aware that sometimes, realistically, black Americans are victims of what I suspect is often overzealous policing. Even when the police are themselves black. Facial recognition software has also often been found to have problems, which are not yielding as we would wish to better programming.  The ACM has written about this extensively in their Proceedings.  The fact is, no little computer embeds anything even remotely resembling actual intelligence in themselves. Additionally, the huge financial incentive society is counting on the profits from by eliminating expensive human workers, makes a groupthink situation that virtually guarantees a plethora of very bad decisions will be made. Even if the technology we draw upon to "justify" those bad decisions is lacking. Look at the situation where despite the objections of the inventors of Bluetooth, after totalitarian China asserted that they had "developed a system" which used Bluetooth Low Energy to track and identify people who might have been in proximity with one another, countries that should have known better misrepresejnted the ability of software they had written in a few weeks to be used in fake "contact tracking" software..

Its the same with the surveillance technology of other kinds, iits capabilities are often vastly overstated and when put to the test, found to be lacking. But they wont give it up that easily. Even when its deeply wrong. And shown to be bringing with it a host of problems.

Another similar mistake was the so called Gatwick Drone incident in the UK, which turned out to have been a (very costly) mistake.

Groupthink is an unfortunate consequence of so called "echo chambers" that impact public opnion to see crime (or terrorism) sometimes when in fact no crime actually exists. It may be wishful thinking of some kind, like the wishful thinking after the fall of the former Soviet Union for enemies to "justify" egregious levels of military spending and high profit military manufacturing. For example, questions persisted about the terror incident of 2001, revolving around videos showing the collapse of the two towers, both due to having ben hit by large jetliners carrying large amounts of highly flammable fuel  and the arguably inexplicable, subsequent collapse of an additional building, part of the same complex, in what appeared to be a well controlled explosion, which had not in fact been hit by any airplane.

 As those profits are already being banked on, and the intertia generated because of greed cant be stopped. Also the security establishment lined up demanding that news about the WTO whose name sounds similar to WTC be suppressed. What is Groupthink? Its a phenomena inherent to some kinds of social behavior that was originally explained by Irving Janis. And expanded on by physicist Richard Feynmann in his famous investigation of the Challenger disaster and the train of pressures and faulty decisions that led to the failure of the Challenger Space Shuttle propulsion system due to abnormal cold causing brittle rubber and failure of O-rings leading to an explosion. .
« Last Edit: April 08, 2022, 07:14:48 pm by cdev »
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Offline dbctronic

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #221 on: April 11, 2022, 11:53:42 pm »
I nearly collapsed into a pile of my own dookey when I found out that those Challenger booster O rings were made of neoprene!! The cheapest plastic ever made! Yes, it does get stiff at 40F! Yes, it's not terribly heat resistant, in fact about the least heat resistant plastic!!! Not that this matters when it's got good old putty separating it from burning solid rocket fuel, of course... :o
How much did they save by using neoprene and putty instead of silicone? Only groupthink could lead to this kind of unbelievable decision making. Save a few grand, lose a shuttle and crew.

Groupthink: Inertia matters more than progress!!
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #222 on: April 12, 2022, 04:19:36 am »
The Challenger o-rings were silicone, not neoprene.
Neoprene itself is not really a cheap artificial rubber:  as an o-ring, it is rated from -30o to +212o F.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2022, 04:14:50 pm by TimFox »
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #223 on: April 12, 2022, 04:10:35 pm »
When I read the original publication of this article in Aerospace and Defense Science, it convinced me that the SRB o-rings were not the cause of the Challenger disaster:

https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/382045main_19%20-%2020090730.11.STS%20Problem%202003.pdf
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #224 on: April 12, 2022, 05:05:46 pm »
When I read the original publication of this article in Aerospace and Defense Science, it convinced me that the SRB o-rings were not the cause of the Challenger disaster:

https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/382045main_19%20-%2020090730.11.STS%20Problem%202003.pdf

I'll admit to not reading the whole thing, but in my opinion he greatly undermines his own argument by demonstrating that he does not understand how a bathroom scale works and why the reading overshoots (here's a clue; it doesn't on a modern electronic one that uses solid state sensors instead of springs, gears, and flywheels).

I feel that if the dynamic overshoot (if it indeed exists in the shuttle engine system) was of the magnitude that he claims, probably 50% or more of all shuttle flights would have ended in catastrophic structural failure.
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