Indian phone scammers

[texaspyro]

Just don't answer unknown numbers or hang  up on them.  If you try to play with them or piss them off you might find out that they will use your phone number as their spoofed number.   Some people wound up getting hundreds of calls from other irate victims of the scammer.

[IanMacdonald]

Muffled reply; "Hey (whatevername) start the trace, this is the ONE."

Bang, scammer's phone goes down. 

[Pluscrafter]

Six years ago when I was 12:
Scammer : "Your PC has 100 Errors."
I:              "My parents aren't at home."
Scammer: "What's your name?"
I:              "I don't no my name."
Scammer: laugh

Hang up.

[CatalinaWOW]

There is no safe response to scam calls.  Some of them are mapping when the phone is being picked up to identify unoccupied houses for burglary.  So do whatever entertains you. 

In the meantime we need to get our lawmakers to do things that raise the cost of these calls so that this massive spamming is not economical.  The costs are so low now that almost any nefarious activity is worth doing.  One idea would be a tax on carriers for each call.  The carriers can't duck out into another country as most of the spam callers do.  A small per call tax wouldn't be a significant harm to most normal people and businesses, and it would be easy to set up a deduction for businesses that proved they had a legitimate reason for a large call volume.

Other ideas welcome.

[texaspyro]

Other ideas welcome.

Nuke 'em from orbit... it's the only way to be sure. 

[MrMobodies]

There is no safe response to scam calls.  Some of them are mapping when the phone is being picked up to identify unoccupied houses for burglary.  So do whatever entertains you. 
Other ideas welcome.

Including the ones that pretend to be from your bank and ask you call them back.
What you don't know is when they keep the line open and put a fake dial tone in it.

[Pluscrafter]

Other ideas welcome.

Nuke 'em from orbit... it's the only way to be sure. 

Cut their phone and Internetlines.

Gesendet von meinem G8341 mit Tapatalk

[CatalinaWOW]

So how do you cut their lines?  Obviously right now it makes economic sense for all the players to be involved in this.  The phone companies sell connections.   The scammers get enough hits to pay off.  The hit on carriers from illicit connections is not high enough to cause them to invest in countermeasures.

Somewhere the chain has to be broken or we will be inundated with this crap forever.  Anti-scam phones are just a temporary fix just like caller ID was only a temporary fix.

[MK14]

So how do you cut their lines?  Obviously right now it makes economic sense for all the players to be involved in this.  The phone companies sell connections.   The scammers get enough hits to pay off.  The hit on carriers from illicit connections is not high enough to cause them to invest in countermeasures.

Somewhere the chain has to be broken or we will be inundated with this crap forever.  Anti-scam phones are just a temporary fix just like caller ID was only a temporary fix.

I don't know if you have played/experienced Amazon Echo (Alexa), or the competing Google version.

But, if you have, one can imagine, in the (hopefully) near future. Being able to have phones, with built in functionality like that, which can initially answer unknown/unexpected phone callers (via their phone number), and check them out. Using the speaking AI.

Then only ring your phone, if the caller checks out.

tl;dr
If a friend/relative/work phones, it lets the phone call straight through.

But if it doesn't recognize the callers phone number, it asks them questions (AI), to check them out.

I.e. A call screening device, with voice recognition and AI.

[CatalinaWOW]

So how do you cut their lines?  Obviously right now it makes economic sense for all the players to be involved in this.  The phone companies sell connections.   The scammers get enough hits to pay off.  The hit on carriers from illicit connections is not high enough to cause them to invest in countermeasures.

Somewhere the chain has to be broken or we will be inundated with this crap forever.  Anti-scam phones are just a temporary fix just like caller ID was only a temporary fix.

I don't know if you have played/experienced Amazon Echo (Alexa), or the competing Google version.

But, if you have, one can imagine, in the (hopefully) near future. Being able to have phones, with built in functionality like that, which can initially answer unknown/unexpected phone callers (via their phone number), and check them out. Using the speaking AI.

Then only ring your phone, if the caller checks out.

tl;dr
If a friend/relative/work phones, it lets the phone call straight through.

But if it doesn't recognize the callers phone number, it asks them questions (AI), to check them out.

I.e. A call screening device, with voice recognition and AI.

Call screening can be defeated by falsifying the Caller ID.  Already widely done.  The only added step needed is to identify each phone's white list.  With a cooperative network of thousands of random callers this can be built by brute force methods pretty easily.  I suspect this is also happening.  A limited form already is as the false Caller ID is often chosen from a list of local numbers.

It is sometimes hard to realize the total magnitude of the effort that goes into these scamming operations.  To think that the Amazon/Google AI will be up to the task seems overoptimistic.  It also seems the wrong way to attack the problem.  An ongoing technology war which means an ever increasing investment in the defensive end of this isn't a real win for us.

We need to look for analogies to the trap door functions used in cryptology.  Something which is really easy on our side, that make immense extra effort on the other side.

[cdev]

I can't help but wonder if Lenny is a real elderly person, and that perhaps he doesn't know he's been immortalized in this way. If so, I hope his name isn't really Lenny. That would be really mean and evil.

That said, there need to be better solutions to stop scammers (which no country has a monopoly on) and robo callers especially.

[NiHaoMike]

We need to look for analogies to the trap door functions used in cryptology.  Something which is really easy on our side, that make immense extra effort on the other side.

Already solved in the form of the PoW function in cryptocurrency.

[ebastler]

I can't help but wonder if Lenny is a real elderly person, and that perhaps he doesn't know he's been immortalized in this way. If so, I hope his name isn't really Lenny. That would be really mean and evil.

Ah no, I am pretty sure that Lenny's sentences were carefully scripted and specifically recorded for this purpose. The flow of the "conversation", and the carefully designed ambiguity of his statements (which makes them work for any caller's purpose, from fixing computers to pitching a political agenda), suggest that.

[MK14]

Call screening can be defeated by falsifying the Caller ID.  Already widely done.  The only added step needed is to identify each phone's white list.  With a cooperative network of thousands of random callers this can be built by brute force methods pretty easily.  I suspect this is also happening.  A limited form already is as the false Caller ID is often chosen from a list of local numbers.

It is sometimes hard to realize the total magnitude of the effort that goes into these scamming operations.  To think that the Amazon/Google AI will be up to the task seems overoptimistic.  It also seems the wrong way to attack the problem.  An ongoing technology war which means an ever increasing investment in the defensive end of this isn't a real win for us.

We need to look for analogies to the trap door functions used in cryptology.  Something which is really easy on our side, that make immense extra effort on the other side.

I guess it is similar to other on going battles.
Good vs evil.
Police vs Robbers
Anti-Virus software vs Malware creators
Bacteria vs Antibiotics/Antibacterials and other advances in medicine

In my case, I only currently, get such phone calls, very infrequently. But if that changes, it might press me to take action.
My phone(s), have options I can enable, which pre-screen phone calls (if the caller is not recognized as "friendly/known") , which I enable, if I have a spout/burst of SPAM phone callers.
Sometimes they start to phone every week, or every other day, and it begins to get very annoying.

I still wish that the Police, Governments (hence agencies which can fine the companies. But the fines are way, way too small at the moment. Give them teeth!  ), phone companies, Telephone manufacturers, and Electronic gadget device designers/manufacturers would get their acts together and solve/minimize this problem.

Although the "Electronic gadget devices" solution, would land, potentially in my court and/or other users of this forum. So, I have to take/accept some of the responsibility for this issue not being dealt with better.
I.e. In theory I/we could design something to help out, which screens (removes the SPAM) calls for everyone.

[ebastler]

In theory I/we could design something to help out, which screens (removes the SPAM) calls for everyone.

How would you do that? Unless you work at one of the telcos, where you could potentially disable the transmission of fake caller IDs, I don't see how you would identify spam calls?

[MK14]

In theory I/we could design something to help out, which screens (removes the SPAM) calls for everyone.

How would you do that? Unless you work at one of the telcos, where you could potentially disable the transmission of fake caller IDs, I don't see how you would identify spam calls?

I've already got one (it is not brilliant, but it partly does the job, when needed), and there are better (but more expensive ones), available.

Similar, to what I have (I may have an older or even different model, but what I have is very similar or the same). Is:  https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8203081

Powered by truecall's award winning technology offers users complete control over which calls they want to take and those they wish to block.

100% nuisance call blocking, mobile sync and answer machine means you'll never have to speak to another cold caller again.

What it basically does, is (as well as allowing known bad callers to be banned by telephone number), it has an answer machine like function. But the ladies voice (built in to the phones), insists on being told the name of whom they want to speak to.
Only after being given the name, will it let the phones ring. Then I can listen to what they said, and if they sound like an Indian call centre and haven't a clue what my name is (e.g. They may say my name is "The Broadband owner"), I can just let the machine reject/dump the call.
I'm not fully sure as to its operation, as I almost never have used it yet, as luckily, I very rarely get these SPAM calls, currently.

More expensive units (which I DON'T have), can get a list of known bad/SPAM phone numbers, via the internet (or however it works), and automatically reject them (and any calls which are withholding their numbers), without even your phone needing to ring.

*************************************************************************

But you are right. I may well not be able to come up with a solution and/or be in a position to get it put on the market.

[MK14]

Another tip:
I try and never, ever give out my "real phone number". Except to extremely trustworthy people. Or if I absolutely have to (give the real one out).

Because I think there is a danger it can leak out and get onto the SPAMers lists. Especially where the form requesting your phone number is online. They could get hacked or compromised one day.

The alternative number I give out, is still a "real number" for me. It just does not usually ring (my choice), and only accepts messages (normally, off-hand I'm not sure if it accepts messages).

[NiHaoMike]

How would you do that? Unless you work at one of the telcos, where you could potentially disable the transmission of fake caller IDs, I don't see how you would identify spam calls?

Intercept the call and play a voice prompt along the lines of "press or say 1 to leave a message or 2 to continue the call." (Customizable, of course.) And in the case it's a spam call from an actual person, some sort of on demand noisemaker (e.g. smoke detector in easy reach) also comes in handy.

[ebastler]

Intercept the call and play a voice prompt along the lines of "press or say 1 to leave a message or 2 to continue the call." (Customizable, of course.) And in the case it's a spam call from an actual person, some sort of on demand noisemaker (e.g. smoke detector in easy reach) also comes in handy.

I must be missing something here. How do you distinguish between a spammer pressing '2' or a friendly caller pressing '2'?

[BradC]

Intercept the call and play a voice prompt along the lines of "press or say 1 to leave a message or 2 to continue the call." (Customizable, of course.) And in the case it's a spam call from an actual person, some sort of on demand noisemaker (e.g. smoke detector in easy reach) also comes in handy.

I must be missing something here. How do you distinguish between a spammer pressing '2' or a friendly caller pressing '2'?

Spammers don't generally hang around to press '2'. Having said that, a mate of mine put together a very nice and complex IVR with Asterisk that unless you choose menu 4, then menu 2 will lead you round in a very long and convoluted loop. Does the job and I never have trouble remembering which menus to press (you can shortcut the process with the correct menu entries up front).

[CatalinaWOW]

Intercept the call and play a voice prompt along the lines of "press or say 1 to leave a message or 2 to continue the call." (Customizable, of course.) And in the case it's a spam call from an actual person, some sort of on demand noisemaker (e.g. smoke detector in easy reach) also comes in handy.

I must be missing something here. How do you distinguish between a spammer pressing '2' or a friendly caller pressing '2'?

Spammers don't generally hang around to press '2'. Having said that, a mate of mine put together a very nice and complex IVR with Asterisk that unless you choose menu 4, then menu 2 will lead you round in a very long and convoluted loop. Does the job and I never have trouble remembering which menus to press (you can shortcut the process with the correct menu entries up front).

All this is fairly effective at preventing you from having to pick up the phone, or be annoyed by it ringing.  There are two downsides.  It can annoy friendly callers, and particularly those desired but not yet hooked business calls.  Second, in my case the spam calls are up to a dozen or more a day on my landline and one or two on my cell.  If the trend continues the spam calls will start making the phone busy a significant part of the time as it automatically deals with the spammers.

[texaspyro]

I LOVE the latest trick that 99% of spam calls are now using where the spoofed number has my area code and exchange.   Any call that comes in with caller id like that is ALWAYS a spam call and is NEVER answered.  Plus I never answer calls that are not from known numbers.

[CatalinaWOW]

Not responding to unknown numbers has its own penalties.  In the last month numbers that I didn't recognize turned out to be an A/C service technician calling to clarify directions to my house, my son calling for assistance using a friend's phone, a doctor calling with medical information for my wife and a reminder call of a dental appointment that I had forgotten.  You might have fewer of these but it is hard for me to accept that you know the phone numbers of everyone you want to hear from.

[CJay]

My Phone is rather clever (I believe it's a fairly common feature on Android phones?), if I receive a call from an number that's not in my contacts list, it works out who the caller is and shows me, for instance I called a new restaurant yesterday and it shows in my call list as 'Ming Moon', there's a mobile number it's flagged as 'Potential Fraud', it's rather clever and allows me to decide if I want to answer or someone back.

[ebastler]

My Phone is rather clever (I believe it's a fairly common feature on Android phones?), if I receive a call from an number that's not in my contacts list, it works out who the caller is and shows me, for instance I called a new restaurant yesterday and it shows in my call list as 'Ming Moon', there's a mobile number it's flagged as 'Potential Fraud', it's rather clever and allows me to decide if I want to answer or someone back.

Hmm, that's pretty neat. Although a bit scary from a privacy perspective, since it means that your phone is reporting all of your callers to some Google server, presumably... Does that work in real time, while the call is coming in, or only after the fact in the call log?

My iPhone decodes the incoming area codes, but nothing beyond that. I don't think there is an option to have callers fully identified (unless they are in my contacts, of course).