Earth Engine permanent magnet power generator

[alsetalokin4017]

The Earth Engine is capable of producing 40+Kw of mechanical energy. This energy can be used to generate electricity, operating pumps, compressors, and other mechanical devices.

The Earth Engine is not a perpetual motion machine. The Earth Engine uses the force created from two opposing magnets. Magnets are a depleting resource that requires “recharging” every three years. If the engine is shut down, it will stop rotating the drive system.

The Earth Engine is the only known power source propelled by Asymmetrical Magnetic Propulsion, producing energy that can be applied to generating electricity, and operating pumps, compressors, and other mechanical devices. With its massive list of features that set it above the competition. The Earth Engine does not consume any fossil fuels, it does not run on the sun, the wind, hydro, bio-fuels, or radioactive fuel sources. It can run 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year creating constant energy unlike renewable technologies such as solar and wind. It is not reliant on a reaction, or burning of fuel source.

Individuals, corporations, and municipalities can invest or participate with IEC Earth Engine technology and ZEROGRID strategies in a multitude of ways. Visit our Getting Involved page for further details. (Source: https://ie.energy/faq.html)

This one's a hoot. They have a factory, they are giving demonstrations, they supposedly have "Earth Engines" installed and running at several locations. The main man is a fellow called Dennis Danzik and they have a bunch of seemingly experienced people on staff.



And there is more.

I would really like to know what members here think of this. Danzik has an interesting history....  This is a bigtime operation, not some little YouTube tinkerer with a wrench and a fake light bulb. And it's not like audiophoolery either, where any expensive effects are "really there you just aren't sensitive and have a tin ear".... I mean the claim is 25 kW output with no input, running for three years.... that's not your usual YouTube "free energy" scam entertainment claim.

[ebastler]

Danzik has an interesting history.... 

Indeed.
http://bankrupt.com/misc/wyb16-20002-245.pdf

So at least his motivation for being involved in this upscale scam is easy to understand...

[james_s]

It's the same old bullshit, just scaled up.

[alsetalokin4017]

Scaled up is right.

A VIP group from the ‘Freedomworks’ conference, which included legislative leaders and a US Congressman, visited the IEC national training center on March 29, 2019. Guests watched videos and saw live demonstrations of various ‘Earth Engines’, followed by a Q&A with inventor Dennis Danzig and IEC CEO Bill Hinz, former head of McDonnell Douglas Helicopters and AlliedSignal aerospace. The group also saw the newest parts created entirely from clear Lexan plastic. Soon there will be a fully operational, see-through plastic motor to help dispel suspicions of a ‘hidden’ power source. The system is in fact closed, and all power is derived from the rare-earth magnetic ‘fuel.’

I think this deserves more attention than the typical entertainment audiophoolery or YouTube motor-generator-lightbulb trick. There is either some bigtime fraudery underway here (probability > 0.99999...) OR the end of the world as we know it energy-wise (probability so small as to be negligible.)

Are there any forum members nearby any of the supposed installations, like in Las Vegas NV USA or Scottsdale AZ USA? They had a demonstration in Austin TX a few months ago but I was not aware of this at that time, or I certainly would have gone to take a look.   

[Deodand2014]

Sounds like a 21st Century version of J. E. W. Keely's scam from the 19th Century, Wikipedia has a reasonable article on him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ernst_Worrell_Keely

[ebastler]

Sounds like a 21st Century version of J. E. W. Keely's scam from the 19th Century

Thank you; I had not come across that story yet. Impressively, Keely kept his scam going for more than 25 years, and seems to have lived off the funding from patrons and investors during much of that time. 

Let's see how long his modern-day disciples can keep their scheme going. They are off to a good start, by announcing that they will delay any patent applications and rely on trade secrets... 

[Towger]

25 years is good going.  My local charlatans got to 16 years as an actual company: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steorn

[T3sl4co1l]

Wait.  Wait, wait.

All plastic, see-through motor?  It's not Orbo, is it?

Tim

[donotdespisethesnake]

I guess the biggest difference to other "magnet motor" scams is the size, nearly 3000 kg. For $10k, you get a small amount of scrap metal.

They make so many bogus claims, like it doesn't use up finite resources. So rare earth magnets are in infinite supply?

From the webshite :

We "push" the large mass by controlling the magnetic field. When the two opposing fuel sources (magnetic fields) driving the flywheel mass are in the correct position, the Engine fires a small electromagnetic charge measuring about 52-watts. This charge allows the opposing fuel sources to "see" each other, and can produce significant force to spin the large flywheel mass.

So ignoring the gobbledygook (and there is a lot of that), it's a pulse motor?

I recall that Steorn also engaged "independent consultants" to write a report, and not much came of that. A fundamental mistake of these schemes is to attempt a proof, instead of just collecting believers and their dollars.

[Cyberdragon]

No, the magnets are rechargeable they say.

[james_s]

The sad if not surprising part is legislators and a congressman being gullible enough to visit.

I don't know what it is about the concept "you cannot get something for nothing" that some people have such a difficult time understanding.

[ebastler]

The sad if not surprising part is legislators and a congressman being gullible enough to visit.

Well, they were coming from the "FreedomWorks" conference, after all... 

[Cyberdragon]

The sad if not surprising part is legislators and a congressman being gullible enough to visit.

I don't know what it is about the concept "you cannot get something for nothing" that some people have such a difficult time understanding.

To them, they do seem to get something from nothing. It's called taxes.

[benbradley]

This other little article I posted in the thread linked below had piqued my interest, because I wondered what could possibly be new about permanent magnet motors, the same little motors used in toys and portable cassette players ...

BUT NO, that's NOT what the article means by "permanent magnet motor." Redefinition of terms is done by (among others) cults, and is also called "loading the language."

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/perpetual-commotion-new-discovery-permanent-magnet-motors/msg1970945/#msg1970945

Likewise, a "power generator" might legitimately use a permanent magnet as part of its operation, but having looked at this for a few seconds, it claims to be "powered" solely by permanent magnets.

I wonder if I could attach some masses to a few engine valve springs and get investors interested in my "valve spring power generator."

"The Earth Engine is not a perpetual motion machine."

"I am not a crook." - Richard M. Nixon

[mtdoc]

Surprisingly objective article on this in yesterday’s WSJ

[james_s]

Unfortunately it seems it's behind a paywall so all we get is a fairly useless teaser paragraph.

[mtdoc]

Sorry. Here ya go.

[benbradley]

Oh Noes, he's in the Wall Street Journal!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/one-mans-unlikely-quest-to-power-the-world-with-magnets-11558029179

WSJ isn't giving me the whole story (in more ways that one, I'm sure), I've exhausted my free stories for the month or whatever. But I don't care, it doesn't matter. It's all the same crap here that the reporter bought into.

It must be time to go to bed, I just typed in all caps on the WSJ's Facebook post for this article.

[benbradley]

Surprisingly objective article on this in yesterday’s WSJ

oops.

Regardless, maybe someone can show this FB poster the way ...

"Laws of Physics are just fine here. The machine drains magnetism from magnets to generate power and will eventually exhaust itself (i.e., non-perpetual motion). “Earth machines” like this aren’t anything new, but have yet to be developed enough for a practical real world application. Hopefully this guy has something."

[james_s]

How do you drain magnetism from magnets? As far as I know, magnets just do not behave that way, magnetic fields are not stored energy, you have to put energy into a magnet (by moving it) in order to extract energy from the system.

Even if it did work as described, it would be an energy storage system, not an energy generating system. You can't get more energy out than you put in.

[dirtcooker]

The Earth Engine is capable of producing 40+Kw of mechanical energy. This energy can be used to generate electricity, operating pumps, compressors, and other mechanical devices.

This is the most elaborate scam I have seen since EESTOR, which raised 10's of millions from some big name investors and produced nothing.
From what I can tell looking at the video, there is no easy way to test this thing. The flywheel should be connected to a generator, so that power output can easily be measured. But it is not. How clever. What a charlatan this guy is. And he is surrounded by gullible rubes.

[Futureman]

This is the real deal! As a matter of fact I know a couple (Ex-Siemens Engineer and his wife) who visited the Inductance Energy Corporation in Scottsdale/Arizona recently in August 2019!
They got to see the "Crystal Machine" and another "Earth Engine" running! They also were able to ask a lot of questions.

I am sure most of you engineers are familiar with the Halbach array? If not you might bring your knowledge up to speed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halbach_array
The company managed to magnetized the magnets in such a way, that the magnets have an inherent non-uniform asymetrical field.

Also they incorperated into the system is a flywheel! (900kg)
The used high quality ball bearings are form SKF (Germany). https://www.skf.com/ch/de/index.html

I guess the ball bearings must be replaced one day? But the magnets should work for a very long time without any loss of magnetization.

The system shall use an input energy four the control electronic of about 200W. Output max. 25kW
A smaller 7.5kW system is in work! A solar charge controller is used to charge 8 x 48V Batteris with a capacity of 60Ah = 23040Wh

Interesting is that currently two other companies have working magnet motors on sale:
https://gaia-energy.org/muammer-yildiz-willkommen-bei-gaia/

Mr. Muammer Yildiz who showed his running magnet motor on the Geneva Inventor Exhebition in 2013:
He was afraid to let the motor run longer than about 15 minutes! Since it could happen that one of his 500 magnets could break off on block the system, due to vibrations!

According to the Gaia organisation that problem is solved, but in the recent test run in July 2019 the shaft, of the new 7.5kW magnetmotor and a coupled electric generator, broke just after 7 hours run time.
Here is my guess that they have not used a flexible coupling!? And again the vibration snapped the weakest part.

Also the company "Infinity SAV" based in South Korea has an interesting 10kW System to represent:

So I would think not all claims for magnetic motors are fake, it is probaly technology we are able now to invent and engineer, due to the fact that the science of magnetic fields
and properties of selden earth materials are better understood.
I just recently came accross this additional SolisWorks or Inventor Software for magnetic flux simulation:

So have fun discussing this topic further, I am looking forward for positive inputs or links to further dive into "Magnetism"!

[maginnovision]

Positive input is definitely what these need.

[RandallMcRee]

Well lets not forget that there is a huge amount of energy stored in today's neodymium magnets.

It did not come from nowhere, nor the earth, but was placed there by the manufacturer, usually in China (so probably said energy came from coal).
In addition to the potential energy in those magnets there can also be huge mechanical energy created just by arranging magnets in clever ways. This energy can be released simply by changing physical placement (think about the energy created and released by allowing two magnets to smash together). Then like a real spring the energy needs to be replaced somehow.

If these "motors" have found a way to dribble out that energy you can certainly spin something for a very long period of time.

That does not make it perpetual energy, just clever.

[james_s]

Well lets not forget that there is a huge amount of energy stored in today's neodymium magnets.

It did not come from nowhere, nor the earth, but was placed there by the manufacturer, usually in China (so probably said energy came from coal).
In addition to the potential energy in those magnets there can also be huge mechanical energy created just by arranging magnets in clever ways. This energy can be released simply by changing physical placement (think about the energy created and released by allowing two magnets to smash together). Then like a real spring the energy needs to be replaced somehow.

If these "motors" have found a way to dribble out that energy you can certainly spin something for a very long period of time.

That does not make it perpetual energy, just clever.

There's no energy "stored" in magnets, magnetism is not energy, it just enables the transfer and conversion of energy. Think about it, you can put a coil of wire around the strongest magnet in the world and it will just sit there, if you want to generated electricity you have to move the magnet or coil relative to one another or you can put energy into the coil and it or the magnet will move relative to one another.

You cannot get something for nothing, ever! If you think you are getting more energy out of something than you are putting in, then you are measuring something incorrectly.