Dodgy manufacturer

[clucas]

who the hell scrapes the ICs to hide the identifying markings so they can't be replaced. This is the daughter board off a 'Shanghai Electronics Way' treadmill motor control board. Geez Louise.

[Electro Detective]

"...helo, we don't want our design copied, tank u 4 ur email..."   


At least that may explain why I see so many new-ish looking treadmills dumped on nature strips

Once they fail 6 weeks past the warranty period and the owners advised of the board replacement price        out she goes... 

[helius]

The usual reason for erasing markings is not to frustrate repair but to try to prevent cloning the design.

[amyk]

Nevermind the fact that those look like pretty standard parts and tracing out the schematic one could probably guess what they are, or their function...

[JohnnyMalaria]

Should've painted out the resistor values, too. Or a good coat of Flex Seal over the whole thing.

[clucas]

"...helo, we don't want our design copied, tank u 4 ur email..."   


At least that may explain why I see so many new-ish looking treadmills dumped on nature strips

Once they fail 6 weeks past the warranty period and the owners advised of the board replacement price        out she goes... 

they are the fools who don't know their consumer rights and think once the warranty is up they have to pay to repair
everything needs to last a 'reasonable' amount of time. I had no problem getting a full refund on a Bauhn tv for a friend and a free repair on a Dishlex diswasher for my sister after both failed when two years old and only came with a 12mths warranty. Both were valued around $600. No problem at all.

[clucas]

Nevermind the fact that those look like pretty standard parts and tracing out the schematic one could probably guess what they are, or their function...

yes they are standard parts. Op amps and a pwm generator i believe. I would like to see a schematic if you want to have a crack at it.

[clucas]

"...helo, we don't want our design copied, tank u 4 ur email..."   

The usual reason for erasing markings is not to frustrate repair but to try to prevent cloning the design.

which makes you wonder why this didn't happen.

Should've painted out the resistor values, too. Or a good coat of Flex Seal over the whole thing.

anything is possible and one guess is as good as another but when you consider what happens in the tv servicing industry and how repairers are often hindered by the unavailability of service manuals and boards, particularly main boards, or service manuals lacking critical information like schematics and parts lists or boards being priced out of the reach of an economical repair I tend to lean towards a preference not to repair more than we don't want anyone to copy our fail design.

[bob225]

What is the make of the treadmill ? no doubt its a copy of a copy, Of another copy of the original

Erasing numbers off parts has been around since the days of tubes - its nothing new

[clucas]

What is the make of the treadmill ? no doubt its a copy of a copy, Of another copy of the original

Erasing numbers off parts has been around since the days of tubes - its nothing new

no doubt but I haven't been around that long in this industry and it caught me by surprise. I suspect it's more common in some industries more than others.
The make is Sportsamico and god only knows what it is a re-badge of.

[Ice-Tea]

Seems to be mostly/only chinese manus that do this.

The irony of it all is breathtaking.

[Gyro]

Given the prevalence of salvaged and re-marked parts on the Shenzen market, they could simply buy a batch of whatever parts they are, get them blacktopped and re-marked with a completely different part number. 

That would confuse the hell out of all but the most lateral thinking of reverse engineers. It must be a cheap enough process considering how common it is.

[Cyberdragon]

Given the prevalence of salvaged and re-marked parts on the Shenzen market, they could simply buy a batch of whatever parts they are, get them blacktopped and re-marked with a completely different part number. 

That would confuse the hell out of all but the most lateral thinking of reverse engineers. It must be a cheap enough process considering how common it is.

We see that coming a mile away. If it doesn't show up on Google, we assume it's propietary and see what else fits. If they wanted to be actually evil they'd use a similar but different enough part number, like an opamp chip with the same pinout but wrong specs.

[dmills]

Opamp labelled as comparator would be a good one, they often have the same pinout....
This stuff has been going on since at least the Philbrick research era.

Regards, Dan.

[Canis Dirus Leidy]

Or a good coat of Flex Seal over the whole thing.

Usually epoxy resin is used for this. Or polyurethane varnish. Or some other congealing shit that makes electronic block repairable as a common brick. 

[JohnnyMalaria]

Or a good coat of Flex Seal over the whole thing.

Usually epoxy resin is used for this. Or polyurethane varnish. Or some other congealing shit that makes electronic block repairable as a common brick. 

I was thinking Flex Seal because of the insane advertising demonstrations on US TV. Such as...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NygbA9UYPw&feature=youtu.be&t=63

A perfect study of US commercialism

[CM800]

Very common with chinese manufacturers.

They have huge issues over in china of chinese manufacturers copying off eachother & stealing designs. It's very common.

[clucas]

Very common with chinese manufacturers.

They have huge issues over in china of chinese manufacturers copying off eachother & stealing designs. It's very common.

given how common copyright infringements are with international brands I'm not surprised they want to protect their own stuff from themselves.

[clucas]

after further research and discussion with those more experienced and knowledgeable including the replies here, I've come to the conclusion it is solely to prevent being copied and not my previous belief it was trying to hinder repair. Cheers for the info.

[clucas]

everything needs to last a 'reasonable' amount of time.

There's no such laws in China. Chinese consumer laws grant consumers 12 months of mandatory warranty period in more provinces, 24 months in a few provinces.
After that period, more warranty is up to purchase or offered for free, both at the discretion of the manufacturer.
Once the total warranty expires, the manufacturer can literally say fuck you to the consumers who seek help on repairing.

interesting, I wouldn't have thought they had that much protection there but I was referring to Australian consumer law only.

[digsys]

What's more interesting, and I've seen it on many routers / switches etc .. it appears that it is all hand soldered.
When I asked a supplier why, a couple years ago, they said it was cheaper !!! Go figure

[Cyberdragon]

What's more interesting, and I've seen it on many routers / switches etc .. it appears that it is all hand soldered.
When I asked a supplier why, a couple years ago, they said it was cheaper !!! Go figure

Were they using children or something?

[digsys]

... and worse than that ... there is a pool of ~1 billion ultra-poor, The govt allows companies to hire people on training contracts / work experience /
internship or whatever name they decide to call it .. and provide only accommodation and / or minimal pay for months. Then they can dump them.
And worse .. ages ago, I worked on a large govt contract in Malaysia where we were "required" to accept a few dozen chinese slave labourers.
They got paid ~$1 day, plus stuffed into a tin shed. You're not in Kansas now mate :-)

[james_s]

Given the prevalence of salvaged and re-marked parts on the Shenzen market, they could simply buy a batch of whatever parts they are, get them blacktopped and re-marked with a completely different part number. 

That would confuse the hell out of all but the most lateral thinking of reverse engineers. It must be a cheap enough process considering how common it is.

Atari did this with some of their early arcade games back in the 70s. I helped someone working on an old board that had a mask ROM labeled with a a 74xx TTL number. Looking at the schematic it was obvious that it was a ROM but that's not what the number looked up as.

I see sanded off numbers on ICs all the time, and it's usually stuff that isn't worth trying to copy in the first place. Usually it makes me curious and increases the likelihood that I'll reverse engineer it.