Bullshit: Texzon Wireless Power

[bd139]

This was before advances in computation and cryptography understanding. And physics. Not only that Tesla liked to oversell as did people fascinated with the guy. He was like a kickstarter now. Have an idea, tell everyone about it, take their money and then not deliver.

As they say, shit or get off the pot. I see lots of pots and lots of people sitting and have done for over 30 years but I haven’t seen one shit.

[Cyberdragon]

This was before advances in computation and cryptography understanding. And physics. Not only that Tesla liked to oversell as did people fascinated with the guy. He was like a kickstarter now. Have an idea, tell everyone about it, take their money and then not deliver.

As they say, shit or get off the pot. I see lots of pots and lots of people sitting and have done for over 30 years but I haven’t seen one shit.

Tesla didn't just want money, in fact he frequently turned down offers to buy his patents and whatnot. He was just a nuts visionary scientest. The man was definately a savant, but that made him think he knew everything so he had these rediculous grand plans. In reality, he had far from our full modern understanding of physics, so they went bust. Like his brush lamp super radio detector...which became the modern plasma globe desk toy (pointless bin).

[bd139]

Oh he wanted money alright. Granted this was to invest and build ideas however. He was so irresponsible with it that he ended up living the last years of his life in a hotel with an impedance bridge as security after telling the hotel owner it was a death ray.

[wbeaty]

Oh he wanted money alright. Granted this was to invest and build ideas however. He was so irresponsible with it that he ended up living the last years of his life in a hotel with an impedance bridge as security after telling the hotel owner it was a death ray.

Not really irresponsible.  Just blatantly dishonest. And done while other investors watched.

Tesla: I need a $million to develop worldwide radio.

John Jacob Astor: Forget it.  What about those fluorescent bulbs you've been going on about?

Tesla:  No, the FUTURE is going to be radioeverything, also Televisor plates in every home.

JJ Astor: Are you sure you don't want to start a light-bulb company, and eat Edison's lunch?

Tesla: we could even power dirigible-airship engines using radio. We know that blimps go much faster than airplanes, after all.

Astor: Major investors would jump on any fluorescent-tubes factory project.

Tesla:  OK.  I'll start a fluorescent bulbs factory.

JJ Astor contributes millions, in today's dollars

Tesla uses it to build a giant radio laboratory, out where nobody can see.

JJ Astor cuts Tesla off after the first payment.

Then suddenly, Astor won't answer Tesla's letters.  Then, no other rich investors will touch Tesla anymore. 

A great mystery!  Tesla never figured out what happened.   Then, he contracted with JP Morgan to build a radio station to cover a nearby Yacht race.  It was 300ft tall, made of railroad ties, with a huge multi-story brick building to house the power supply.   It could cover yacht races thousands of miles away!  And also power their engines!

JP Morgan stopped answering Tesla's letters too.

---

Now here's some actual footage of Tesla's death ray.  Honest!


https://youtu.be/EdD3MRvBvc4

[Buriedcode]

I have no idea if this thread is mocking Tesla zealots, or siding with them?  Never understood the fascination with the man either, its amazing how many myths there are about him, even the Oatmeal writer perpetuates a lot of them.

[bd139]

It’s easy to sell hope and hype.

Jesus started it with the old “come to my kickstarter launch and I’ll show you how to turn water into wine”. Dick.

[wbeaty]

I have no idea if this thread is mocking Tesla zealots, or siding with them?

The mindless zealots are zeloting, and the mindless scoffers are mocking.   But many of us here are ignoring both.

It's like fans of RP Feynman.   Feynman really did do Nobel-worthy physics.    He also really did hit on Pan Am stewardesses, and get beaten up in dive bars in Buffalo.  We applaud!   "Tesla and the Bellboy" appears a quite-accurate description of N. Tesla in his late 1930s pigeon-fancier period.  It was made in the actual Hotel New Yorker!

Never understood the fascination with the man either, its amazing how many myths there are about him, even the Oatmeal writer perpetuates a lot of them.

First encounter Tesla as a kid.  Build a flyback-transformer version and light up some flourescents!  Dearly wish you could afford some 810 tubes and plate transformers on your fifty-cents allowance.  Then later, discover that G. Marconi really did steal Tesla's fundamental breakthrough.   Marconi Inc. never sold his own patented transmitters and receivers, he only sold Tesla Coils, after renaming them as "Spark transmitters."   In radio history, the entire Morse code era was based on Tesla coils, see article in 73 magazine.  Or as Marconi called them, "Oscillation Transformers."  Tesla berated Marconi for the use of 100KHz broadcast freq, when his broadcast-power only works at well below 20KHz.  Then Marconi moved even higher, but still using electrically-short antennas.  Really, we have Nikola Tesla to thank for amateur radio shortwave, since Marconi was stealing Tesla's ground/VLF philosophy, and the high frequencies were obviously useless garbage.  Give them all to the amateur community, while the pros stay well below 500KHz.   (Heh, too bad the hams couldn't keep outsiders from discovering that the waves shorter than 300 meters were actually useful.)

As for Tesla fanboys, it's not impossible to avoid the myths.  Just track down Tesla's actual writings and interviews, while ignoring all the words put in his mouth by the mindless fans and hoards of skeptics.  Also it helps if you're a skeptic yourself, and recognize a huge fallacy when you see it.  In particular, the well-poisoning and straw-man are coming fast and thick here; being used to pseudo-debunk Tesla.  Heh, where Tesla is concerned, we even have a new type of fallacy: "ad hominem directed at claims!"  Don't try to expose actual flaws, if instead it's much easier to badmouth the claims; smearing them with negative emotional descriptions.  Our goal must be to avoid any clear-headed analysis, if instead we only want to persuade.



Here's an excellent little article which shows the central theme of scientific criticism:  Clinical approach to debate

[Zucca]

Jesus...

bd139 I am a big fan of you that's why I did not report your post. Can you please leave Jesus in peace? It's not that hard. Many thanks in advance.

[bd139]

It was a facetious jab at the irrelevance of sales pitches rather than Jesus. No offence intended. My apologies.

[JoC]

Gen. Richard Devereaux, Executive Vice President, Viziv Technologies, explaining the technology.

[Cyberdragon]

Another promo vid? Really? You poor noob spammer trying to promote a dead dumb idea. Just trying to keep your little scam afloat? Newsflash - you won't all float down here. Things that violate physics or practicality will be meticulously and scientifically dismantled here (and were in this thread).

[bd139]

Indeed. 1 hour of crap. Show it working and show us independent validation it works or to quote our Scottish brethren here in the UK, "get t'eh fuck".

[ogden]

If it looks like a scam and quacks like a scam, then it probably is a scam. http://alternativeinvestmentcoach.com/investment-scams/

[SaiSharma]

Pl see my response above.

[SaiSharma]

Hi,
But I was under an impression that ZW's are a real thing?
Are a case of Maxwell's equations with proper boundary conditions?
I do not think the ZW themselves are a problem here. In my research, I found that the earth will disperse the energy in contours and hence the efficiency would be low.
A Metal sheet of limited dimensions, say an aluminium foil (oven foil) would be able to support a ZN power transmission of upto 66%-20% efficiency between a range of 2.7m to 15m.

[SaiSharma]

I have no idea if this thread is mocking Tesla zealots, or siding with them?

The mindless zealots are zeloting, and the mindless scoffers are mocking.   But many of us here are ignoring both.

It's like fans of RP Feynman.   Feynman really did do Nobel-worthy physics.    He also really did hit on Pan Am stewardesses, and get beaten up in dive bars in Buffalo.  We applaud!   "Tesla and the Bellboy" appears a quite-accurate description of N. Tesla in his late 1930s pigeon-fancier period.  It was made in the actual Hotel New Yorker!

Never understood the fascination with the man either, its amazing how many myths there are about him, even the Oatmeal writer perpetuates a lot of them.

Very well said and actually well articulated my own thoughts.

First encounter Tesla as a kid.  Build a flyback-transformer version and light up some flourescents!  Dearly wish you could afford some 810 tubes and plate transformers on your fifty-cents allowance.  Then later, discover that G. Marconi really did steal Tesla's fundamental breakthrough.   Marconi Inc. never sold his own patented transmitters and receivers, he only sold Tesla Coils, after renaming them as "Spark transmitters."   In radio history, the entire Morse code era was based on Tesla coils, see article in 73 magazine.  Or as Marconi called them, "Oscillation Transformers."  Tesla berated Marconi for the use of 100KHz broadcast freq, when his broadcast-power only works at well below 20KHz.  Then Marconi moved even higher, but still using electrically-short antennas.  Really, we have Nikola Tesla to thank for amateur radio shortwave, since Marconi was stealing Tesla's ground/VLF philosophy, and the high frequencies were obviously useless garbage.  Give them all to the amateur community, while the pros stay well below 500KHz.   (Heh, too bad the hams couldn't keep outsiders from discovering that the waves shorter than 300 meters were actually useful.)

As for Tesla fanboys, it's not impossible to avoid the myths.  Just track down Tesla's actual writings and interviews, while ignoring all the words put in his mouth by the mindless fans and hoards of skeptics.  Also it helps if you're a skeptic yourself, and recognize a huge fallacy when you see it.  In particular, the well-poisoning and straw-man are coming fast and thick here; being used to pseudo-debunk Tesla.  Heh, where Tesla is concerned, we even have a new type of fallacy: "ad hominem directed at claims!"  Don't try to expose actual flaws, if instead it's much easier to badmouth the claims; smearing them with negative emotional descriptions.  Our goal must be to avoid any clear-headed analysis, if instead we only want to persuade.



Here's an excellent little article which shows the central theme of scientific criticism:  Clinical approach to debate

[SaiSharma]

Y'know, 'all' these new user accounts, shilling for Texzon?

I have nothing to do with Texzon or Vizviz.
I even emailed guys from Baylor, no response.

[ebastler]

A Metal sheet of limited dimensions, say an aluminium foil (oven foil) would be able to support a ZN power transmission of upto 66%-20% efficiency between a range of 2.7m to 15m.

A metal sheet of limited dimensions, say an aluminium foil (oven foil), would also be able to support a DC current transmission of upto 66%-20% efficiency between a range of 2.7m to 15m. What's the point?

And what does it tell us about the validity of the concept to transmit waves across the inhomogeneous, much less conducting, corrugated surface of the Earth, over distances many orders of magnitude larger?

[Cyberdragon]

It's just the grain of truth behind the BS, that's all.

[SaiSharma]

A Metal sheet of limited dimensions, say an aluminium foil (oven foil) would be able to support a ZN power transmission of upto 66%-20% efficiency between a range of 2.7m to 15m.

A metal sheet of limited dimensions, say an aluminium foil (oven foil), would also be able to support a DC current transmission of upto 66%-20% efficiency between a range of 2.7m to 15m. What's the point?

And what does it tell us about the validity of the concept to transmit waves across the inhomogeneous, much less conducting, corrugated surface of the Earth, over distances many orders of magnitude larger?

Interesting. But the point here is that coupled WPT systems do not support multi receiver power up with the same efficiency as they do for single receiver.
1. The peak splitting happens
2. Misalignment of Tx and Rx takes a massive toll
3. Partial metal shields such as ships, shipping containers, industrial pipelines etc hinder EM based Power transfer due to Faraday shielding or EM shielding effect.
So, to counter the above issues, one simple way is to get rid of "coupled" and "radiation" element in the  transmission, altogether. Therefore, a wave based solution is desirable.

As far as validity is concerned,
1. The ZW equi-phases sink into the lossy dielectric media[1]-[8]. The system I developed shows that property. See the figures attached[in my previous responses], where an ANSYS HFSS simulation of the same shows this property.
2. The ZW specifically exhibits evanescent field decay property [1]-[9].
3. The slow attenuation rate of Ez(Y) component of the field[1]-[8].
If the said company's system exhibits all the above properties, then it is indeed a ZW system, else, it is at the best a Single Wire Power Transfer system.
DC Transmission:

The point here is, you can always use a cable to transmit power, but then, WPT was all about reducing the wire involved. If one looks at Tesla's earliest patent of 1900, he wasn't referring to a "wireless" but a "less-wire" system and hence the concept of single wire transmission came up. e.g. Goubau line.
The entire point of research with proper scientific rigor is to increase the range of transmission, to see an advantage over DC. One key point is to go below 1MHz range to increase the distance. Unfortunately, the half-wave resonator system would become large.  Earth is an  inhomogeneous media, however at lower frequencies is acts as a conductor a fact well noted by Schelkunoff, Barlow and Sarkar et.al[1]-[3].
I donot want to conclude anything specific here, but, am open to do a research on this. There might be a caveat somewhere, which needs to be explored.

Corrugated Surface
They are known to support Surface waves, ZW may be not that much. But, then ZW, Surface waves and Surface Plasmons are all classified in the same category.

PS: I ran out of space at my lab to experiment beyond 15m. Also the largest ship container Hyundai Heavy Industry(HHI)  threw at me was 14.83m, thats the High-Q container we are talking about. The thickest metal they sent me was 80 mm, used for hull at HHI. I built a radio system for voice communication, based on the above concept, which covers multiple decks without the use of a repeater or relay[320 m range, LNG carrier ship and Dolphin semisub oil rig]. This is not possible for a mono-pole motorola system, unless a relay or repeater is used.

References

1. S. Schelkunoff, IRE Trans. on Antenna and Propagation 7, 133-139 (1959)
2. T. K. Sarkar, M. N. Abdallah, M. Salazar-Palma and W.M. Dyab, IEEE Antennas
and Propagation Magazine 59, 77-93(2017).
3. H.M. Barlow, and A.L. Cullen, Proceed. of the IEE - Part III: Radio and Comm.
Engineering 100, 329-341 (1953).
4. Zenneck, J. Uber die Fortpflanzung ebener elektromagnetischer Wellen l¨angs einer ¨
ebenen Leiterfl¨ache und ihre Beziehung zur drahtlosen Telegraphie. Ann. d. Phys. 23,
846-866 (1907).
5.  Sommerfeld, A. N. Uber die Ausbreitung der Wellen in der drahtlosen Telegraphie. ¨
Ann. d. Phys. 28, 665-736(1909).
6.  Jangal,F., Bourey, N., Darces, M., Issac, F. & H´elier, M. Observation of Zenneck-Like
Waves over a Metasurface Designed for Launching HF Radar Surface Wave. Hindawi,
International J. of Antennas and Propagation 2016,1 (2016).
7. Jeon,T.I., Zhang, J., & Grischkowsky, D. THz Zenneck surface wave (THz surface
plasmon) propagation on a metal sheet. Appl. Phys. Lett. 86, 161904 (2005).
8. Goubau,G. Surface Waves and Their Application to Transmission Lines. Journal of
Appl. Physics 21, 1119(1950).

9. S.K. Oruganti, O. Kaiyrakhmet and F. Bien, URSI Asia-Pacific Radio Science Conference, 318(2016).

[wbeaty]

PS: I ran out of space at my lab to experiment beyond 15m.

Increase your conductor lenght by pi(), by using a circular hoop (supported horizontally, with vertical axis.)   Rigid zinc "flashing" those rolls of flexible metal from the carpenter store, or perhaps extreme heavy-gauge foil from online restaurant suppliers ($90 per roll.)   Bonus: this simulates planetary resonance modes but without the un-physical high-Z sharp edge at the terminus.   

I think for worldwide broadcast power, investors would be more impressed by a "round Earth," rather than a long rod or a sheet on a table.    The VLF version of your single-wire transmission is a long narrow Tesla secondary-coil.  Hence, the 1-D model of VLF Earth would be a Tesla secondary-coil bent into a ring: a torus-coil wound on a plastic form.   Then no need for 13.56 or 27.1 MHz, use 200KHz or similar, with dirt-cheap signal generators and instruments.

Y'know, 'all' these new user accounts, shilling for Texzon?

I have nothing to do with Texzon or Vizviz.

I think you're fighting against irrationally-held positions.  With emotional entanglements driving opinions, "the Tesla stuff" must be wrong no matter what, and therefore you must be a company shill without question.  No other explanation can be tolerated.   In that case, no evidence you present, and no argument you make can even slightly shift the irrational disbelief.   See the bead-on-wire analogy from Encyclopedia of Ignorance, RA Lyttelton 1977.  "Fallen-bead" minds cannot respond to evidence; they've gone over the nonlinear cliff and can never step back.

Imagine the Wright Brothers in 1905, mixed in with a large community of crackpot flying-machine inventors and scam artists.    If an investor wanted to put money into in flying machine R&D, they'd waste it on flapping leather bat-wings project with wood-buring steam engine.   (The Wright Brothers were smart, and gave up early.  They funded everything themselves.)  Tesla, the Wrights, and also 1930s Caltech rocket engines, which had to be called "jets," because otherwise everyone would sneer at Caltech people wanting to built flash-gordon pulp-SciFi spaceships and fly to Uranus.  Just like JPL, "jet" propulsion labs never worked on jets, it's founders were rocket men, but the in 1930s the word "Rocket" was nearly as taboo as bigfoot or little green mars-men.  "JATO" units could not be called rocket-assisted takeoff, or the military would just laugh, and turn away.  (See? Caltech people were actually smart!)  Same deal here.  Irrational disbelief, but triggered by the word "Tesla," rather than "rocket," or "flying machine."

At least you're not heavily into Aliester Crowley magical spells, like certain Caltech rocket designers were!

[bd139]

From the perspective of rationality we don’t hold certain terms as instant discredit. What happens is we acknowledge that even the best of minds does tend to come up with a load of shit sometimes. Many times, hundreds of lives of work have been written off instantly by competing theories and ideas. That’s the march of knowledge. Flogging a dead horse is an obsession of the human race. Each and every development should be treated with the most critical of thinking. Look at what happens to “kirchoff is for the birds”

But fundamentally, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And there is currently none.

And by evidence we expect to see independently reproducible evidence. One thing that the crackpots tend to miss.

Anyone can write a patent and a paper and build a mechanical Turk and solicit funding for it. My entire native industry, software, is based on selling an idea which may not work. Science needs to be held to a higher standard.

[Buriedcode]

Also, most here are engineers.  We deal with practical ideas and technologies, rather than new or novel theories that have little potential to benefit our lives.  There is a lot of pseudoscience about - more than ever - and much of it has latched on to Tesla ideas.  But there is also serious research into wireless power, no-one here has claimed otherwise.  The reason for the cynicism is pretty obvious - we have yet to see any prototypes or systems with reasonable efficiency and scalability. 

People posting such ideas on this forum either want something, be it funding, collaboration, recognition, or hero-worship, or are just letting folks know current research.  I'm not sure what kind of response is expected.

[SaiSharma]

PS: I ran out of space at my lab to experiment beyond 15m.

I think for worldwide broadcast power, investors would be more impressed by a "round Earth," rather than a long rod or a sheet on a table.    The VLF version of your single-wire transmission is a long narrow Tesla secondary-coil.  Hence, the 1-D model of VLF Earth would be a Tesla secondary-coil bent into a ring: a torus-coil wound on a plastic form.   Then no need for 13.56 or 27.1 MHz, use 200KHz or similar, with dirt-cheap signal generators and instruments.

Y'know, 'all' these new user accounts, shilling for Texzon?

I have nothing to do with Texzon or Vizviz.

I think you're fighting against irrationally-held positions.  With emotional entanglements driving opinions, "the Tesla stuff" must be wrong no matter what, and therefore you must be a company shill without question.  No other explanation can be tolerated.   In that case, no evidence you present, and no argument you make can even slightly shift the irrational disbelief.   See the bead-on-wire analogy from Encyclopedia of Ignorance, RA Lyttelton 1977.  "Fallen-bead" minds cannot respond to evidence; they've gone over the nonlinear cliff and can never step back.

Thanks for the reply and the interesting suggestion about the experimental setup.
I think the Tesla cult has done a massive disservice to the man's work. A friend and colleague of mine once went to this Long Island conference. He was perplexed by the Tesla cult, they all claimed Tesla was an Alien and was a commander sent by some reptilian race.
I missed the entertainment due to Visa rejection by the US immigration[ I am from India, but, was a student in Korea, that complicated the scene at immigration]. haha!

I think the use of Earth as a medium to transmit power over long distances will continue to be elusive/unrealizable. There will always be that few factors which will hamper any such realization.
However, limited distances would just be fine. Also, one has to understand that reactive power will be a bummer, when one tries to send power over long distances over earth ground.
In my limited experience, voltage oscillation across the receivers(Rx) shall always be a big challenge. Only way out of it is to facilitate an electrical length across the Rx terminals in the order of quarter to half of Lambda.

I emailed the folks associated with the said company [see attachment]. No response, perhaps they dont want to comment [understandable] or perhaps not.


 

[CJay]

Y'know, 'all' these new user accounts, shilling for Texzon?

I have nothing to do with Texzon or Vizviz.

I think you're fighting against irrationally-held positions.  With emotional entanglements driving opinions, "the Tesla stuff" must be wrong no matter what, and therefore you must be a company shill without question. 

Don't talk rubbish, prove it works and I will happily accept it.

Until then, every thread referencing Zenneck Waves, wireless power transmission soliciting funding and attracting the conspiracy nuts will be regarded, rightly in my opinion, as bullshit.

Nothing I've seen here has shown me anything other than the same, tired, old, crackpot pseudo science and a deep desire to fleece investors.