Amazing Tesla experiments! Totally new science

[Deco56]

I just explained that I did not reference the websites, just the experiments. I have no input on those websites but if you are really hung up on the point I did it indirectly by referencing the sources on the same website, sure go ahead. This is not Peter Lindemann's work. I guess I should have just posted the vimeo link like I did later, my bad. Good catch on the sources, did you even watch the video?

Edit: The main point being missed here, is no one is claiming free energy in the video itself!!

[Cyberdragon]

Cyberdragon I doubt you read and understood the quote properly. You don't think Tesla knew about induction effects and skin effect?   

     I have heard you propose no, exactly zero, theory or hypothesis to explain why what you've brought here is anything genuinely novel. 

As to this not being a new effect, I asked repeatedly for an example of this effect, somewhere, anywhere. Exactly zero have been shown, so in that sense this is new and different. If this is so simple and basic, should be able to reproduce it easily....

I read and understood it and actually have a theory as to the cause unlike you. Also, skin effect was first published in 1883, and again in 1885, so it was a relatively new theory at the time. Second of all, you did not prove that he never found the cause, only that at the time of writing that he didn't have an explanation. He was a human like the rest of us, a brilliant man, but it's entirely concievable that he overlooked something. If he was some all-knowing being...he wouldn't have thought Wardenclyff was such a brilliant idea...

[joeqsmith]

While I don't recommend using a meter like the UT181A for anything with potentially high voltages, this particular one has a few tricks.

Shown with a larger house light and the 181A.  Notice we still see the rectification.   Amazing!!!   

I hope you don't mind me jumping in, and being inquisitive (off topic as well).

Could the multimeter itself be acting as the rectifier. I.e. the internal protection diodes (or whatever is on the front end of the multimeter), has slight biases, one way or the other, hence the +DC voltage, eventually ?
If you reverse the multimeter leads (safely without electrocuting yourself, when it just showed say +7.07 Volts DC). Does it show a similar value, but negative ?

Maybe the multimeter is giving a 'false' value, because the unusual setup, is distorting the AC waveforms enough, to fool the multimeter, into believing there is a DC voltage on top of the AC one.

Thinking out of the box, a filament bulb, is not that different to the old valve/tube rectifiers. Could it be slightly turned into a valve/tube somehow ?
A sort of stray effect or something.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is not some interaction with the meter.   If we were able to heat the filament, it should do a pretty good job rectifying.   If I took the time to try and get a common ground, we could look at it with a scope.  If I were going to try and patent it, I may need to dive into these details but it appears this guy beat me to it...

https://youtu.be/ZdSXghip7Tw?t=121
 

[joeqsmith]

Why would you consider it a personal attack?  Learning new things is nothing to be ashamed of.  Actually, if you are not learning new things, I would say you have a problem.

An incandescent bulb is also filled with noble gas, which we can't see if there's any ionization at all due to their shitty video quality and external light sources.

Here you can see the ignition coils secondary attached to a resistor then to a cap and finally, one side of the small automotive bulb.  The other side of the secondary is floating in freespace next to the bulb.   The Brymen is looking at the AC and DC components across the cap.  As we can see, it has about 22VDC and 0.28VAC.    I have just invented the light bulb rectifier...     

Don't try these experiments with your UNI-T meters..... 

Did you clean the light bulb first, with meths or IPA? If not, I suspect you're just seeing a leakage current. Although in that scenario I can't immediately explain the polarity of the response, but that could be highly dependant on the details of the measuring circuit. For instance, varistors are actually made of a non-linear semiconductor material, that might have some polarity dependant behaviour (pure speculation).

Everything was grubby finger clean.   It could be the meter as mentioned.   I didn't spend much time with it.       

[joeqsmith]

To be clear and state it once again since this keeps coming up. I claimed no free energy in this thread, directly or indirectly.

Actually, you apparently did. Here it goes. (I am going for the INDIRECTLY bit of your reply).

Your opening post, has a link.

Hi all,

Please check out this amazing work done on this site: http://www.am-innovations.com/category/experiments/experiments-single-wire-currents/

Check the video that is about half way done, around the 30 minute mark are some very unusual and amazing effects that can't be explained with our regular understanding of electronics and physics. Anyone want to try this out themselves or should we just dismiss it as impossible since we already know everything?

Which says in it: (Bold and font size change, made by me, for dramatic effect    )

4. Lindemann, P., The free energy secrets of cold electricity, Clear Tech, Inc., 1st Ed, 2001.

Ok, so I suspect I finally recognize a name.  This must be Peter Lindermann.   I posted about him in another thread. Looks like the site is gone now.   They were attempting to make a small dyno so I joined and showed them my small model I made to write the code for a larger one we were working on.   I don't remember them wanted to play with me. 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-708-free-energy-bullshit!/msg597247/#msg597247

[MK14]

I wouldn't be surprised if there is not some interaction with the meter.   If we were able to heat the filament, it should do a pretty good job rectifying.   If I took the time to try and get a common ground, we could look at it with a scope.  If I were going to try and patent it, I may need to dive into these details but it appears this guy beat me to it...

https://youtu.be/ZdSXghip7Tw?t=121

Thanks for the reply.

WOW, that is an amazing video        

So, he turns a normal/standard automotive car brake/rear light bulb, with a filament pair, inside the vacuum (or similar). Into, a somewhat usable, valve/tube rectifier/diode. Amazing   
Although, I did have to check that it wasn't dated, April 1st.
The other bit(s), were interesting as well, although I haven't seen the very beginning of it, yet. Only where to time linked it, to the end, including the battery charging section (which worries me, if the battery explodes, because of Hydrogen).

So, this rectification/diode effect + getting voltages outside the case of the bulb. Maybe could explain the OP's metal leaf attracted to bulb. Because in real terms, I think the metal leaf movement, is just acting as a simple, very old type of 'Voltmeter'.
Which, I think would need the DC, rather than AC, to work. Hence, it also, needs some diode/rectification effect. To work, I think/expect.

Details about metal moving near the glass, mechanisms and voltage measurements:

https://www.techknow.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Gold_Leaf_Electroscope

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroscope

Which I remember, being demonstrated using something like, a wool cloth, rubbing a white plastic rod, to (make static electricity) charge part of the Gold Leaf Electroscope, in a high school (secondary School), Physics class.

[IanB]

Which, I think would need the DC, rather than AC, to work. Hence, it also, needs some diode/rectification effect. To work, I think/expect.

Possibly. Although in general, neutral objects are attracted to charged objects (which is why charged balloons stick to the uncharged ceiling). The sign of the charge doesn't really matter--positive or negative, the attraction is the same. Based on this, AC would attract just like DC.

[MK14]

Which, I think would need the DC, rather than AC, to work. Hence, it also, needs some diode/rectification effect. To work, I think/expect.

Possibly. Although in general, neutral objects are attracted to charged objects (which is why charged balloons stick to the uncharged ceiling). The sign of the charge doesn't really matter--positive or negative, the attraction is the same. Based on this, AC would attract just like DC.

Now you mention it. I see what you mean. So it will (in theory), attract (pull), the thin metal strip, on both the positive and negative cycles, of the AC. So, even AC, could show the effect we are seeing in the original video(s).
Assuming, the charge(s), can get through the glass, and be strong enough.
Which they probably can.
Since there is so much potential (excuse the pun), for capacitive/inductive and even leakage voltages/currents, to be produced. (I agree, inductive is unlikely to be the mechanism here, but I mentioned it for more completeness, of possible mechanisms).
Given that in the supplied, video(s), a huge tube, many, many feet long, is lighting up, because of the very high voltages. It is not much ask, for a few millimetres of glass to pass enough charge, to move a tiny thin metal strip, like we see on the video(s).
Given metal strips like that can react to gentle static electric charges, and stay charged, for long periods of time (School Physics demonstrations). The currents needed, are probably tiny (relatively speaking), so this 'effect' is probably easily explained by conventional Physics.

[IanB]

If we talk about induction, remember that there is electrostatic induction (induced charges due to potential gradients) as well as electromagnetic induction (induced currents due to changing magnetic fields). A dielectric material like glass is not a barrier to electrostatic induction.

Glass can even store charge--if you rub a glass rod with an appropriate material (wool or silk) the glass will become charged and will attract things. It doesn't need metal plates as found in a capacitor to do this. So if you charge up the inside of a glass bulb by applying a high voltage to the base, the outside of the glass will expose the electric field created by this charge.

[Deco56]

First off, I appreciate the feedback and willingness to try to explain the effect and understand this, and I don't mean that sarcastically, some would rather just dismiss it. Got to admit it is a semi-interesting effect.

  The sign of the charge doesn't really matter--positive or negative, the attraction is the same. Based on this, AC would attract just like DC.

I have thought about this when it was brought up before but to be honest it does not fully make sense to me. First, we have to acknowledge that the bulb would make a terrible inductor or capacitor. Beyond that, the frequency of the AC current would have a period much shorter than that of the time it takes for the foil to stick to it, so there would have been several cycles of AC in between so wouldn't they cancel out between the positive and negative cycles? I am assuming the frequency is well over 120 Hz, but even at a frequency so low the period is shorter than the time it takes to attract.

If the bulb is on the positive charge cycle let's say, then the closest part of the neutral tape would be negative by induction, attraction. By the time it begins to move the cycle would have reversed and now it would he repelling until induced to opposite charge.

Edit: the high voltage at the bulb is AC not DC so again not sure how a charge can be built up in high frequency with no capacitance and low inductance for magnetic induction

Edit: I'm sure of one thing, someone is going to point out how my explanation is incorrect and they've see this before with AC powered light ....with no rectifier this time

[MK14]

First off, I appreciate the feedback and willingness to try to explain the effect and understand this, and I don't mean that sarcastically, some would rather just dismiss it. Got to admit it is a semi-interesting effect.

Good   

If we talk about induction, remember that there is electrostatic induction (induced charges due to potential gradients) as well as electromagnetic induction (induced currents due to changing magnetic fields). A dielectric material like glass is not a barrier to electrostatic induction.

Glass can even store charge--if you rub a glass rod with an appropriate material (wool or silk) the glass will become charged and will attract things. It doesn't need metal plates as found in a capacitor to do this. So if you charge up the inside of a glass bulb by applying a high voltage to the base, the outside of the glass will expose the electric field created by this charge.

Thanks, for a very interesting and informative reply.
I think my knowledge of, non-electronics Physics, has weakened, over the decades, since I last studied it at School.

Your explanation     and this article,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_induction   is helping, to bring those memories back.

This picture is also helping (I'm being serious, because it shows the effect, when bits of packing material, you just ripped up and binned, is sticking to stuff, with static electricity, all over the place):




So, electrostatic induction, which can easily jump straight through the glass (see explanation above and linked article for details), and the metal (Gold) leaf detector, which the OP's video, seems to show a form of, is very sensitive and ready, to detect and react (move), as the result of such electrostatic induction effects.

[Cyberdragon]

Edit: I'm sure of one thing, someone is going to point out how my explanation is incorrect and they've see this before with AC powered light ....with no rectifier this time

Yes, with aluminum foil and a plasma ball.

As stated, at these voltages, even miniscule capacitance is significant. The capacative coupling is causing the plates to be charged 180° out of phase with the source and saturated with charge. The easier it can change charges to a fully opposing state, the stronger the attraction. The lightweight, highly conductive aluminum foil can easily achieve this at those frequencies, hence it sticks to the charged lightbulb and plasma balls. The copper foil, as seen in the video, has a harder time. It's greater mass causes it to lag a tiny bit, making it's frequency of oscillation slightly lower than the source. This shift in frequency sets up a small beat frequency, which at these potentials, is enough to be seen as the copper foil visably waving back and forth in the video as it gains and looses attraction. However, as soon as the AC is switched off, you can see the foil instantly stick to the bulb as there are still charges remaining in both. The leaf, while lower conductivity, is also low mass, so again is easily attracted.

[EEVblog]

First off, I appreciate the feedback and willingness to try to explain the effect and understand this, and I don't mean that sarcastically, some would rather just dismiss it. Got to admit it is a semi-interesting effect.

Good   

Be careful, this is how they suck you into their world of investigating their fantasy of having supposedly found "new science", which they take to mean "new unfounded laws of physics" etc.
Remember, it's in the Topic title "Totally new science". No, no it's not.

Occasionally you can be mucking around and after extensive investigation come across new explanations for things we thought we knew the answer for. Like for example, Thunderfoot's coulombic charge explaining why sodium explodes which he and his team discovered which was cool.


But Deco56 is the forum's resident "free energy" advocate.
Just check out his first post on this forum:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/free-energy-is-just-a-bad-name/msg858997/#msg858997

[MK14]

Be careful, this is how they suck you into their world of investigating their fantasy of having supposedly found "new science".
Remember, it's in the Topic title "Totally new science". No, no it's not.

Thanks for the warning.
Your great experience with this issue, is showing through, very clearly.
You have been spot on so far.

It reminds me of dealing, with people who are extremely, obsessed, with an issue (e.g. a conspiracy theory).
Even though they are a fairly logical, smart and knowledgeable person, in most areas.
They can't 'see' their obsession, is somehow clouding their judgement, and almost everyone else, can easily see that the obsessive 'theory', is essentially nonsense.
But unfortunately, you just can't talk them out of it.
If you try, they may initially claim to show a bit of doubt. But then, soon go on the internet (or talk to their friends, with the same obsession). Which soon finds articles, which re-assert, their obsession, to full/maximum power again.

tl;dr
As you said earlier, it can amount to a complete waste of time, trying to convince them of their folly.

EDIT: I've seen similar videos, where similar things, from further explanations, have changed. The Sodium exploding, will make a nice video to watch, I don't think I've seen it, yet.
Sometimes, the crazy fast slow motion cameras, you can get these days (that take a huge number of photographs each second), shed new insight into areas, which we thought we understood.

[Cyberdragon]

When you try to discuss electrostatics to a flammable substance...

[Deco56]

  Be careful, this is how they suck you into their world of investigating their fantasy of having supposedly found "new science", which they take to mean "new unfounded laws of physics" etc.
Remember, it's in the Topic title "Totally new science". No, no it's not.

  

That's what I should have expected when offering to discuss this topic without throwing ad hominem attacks. Instead of offering his own interpretation, he just sticks to his attack on a subject that I haven't even mentioned directly in this thread at all.

I am constantly saying how I don't think the video has anything to do with free energy, yet you guys keep bringing it back up....

So you tell me who is the obsessed one? 

 

The "be careful, this is how the boogey man gets you " line still has me rolling. "Do not discuss anything with them! Your mind will melt if you come across any of his wacky ideas!"

Notice that instead of commenting on the effect itself, he finds it easier to dismiss anything considered interesting (here he will have to reference how we have earned being dismissed). It's heresy!!!!

Nothing is ever going to be new in electronics and electromagnetism guys! We already know everything there is to know so just give up now....every experiment has been done, every effect classified, every anamoly explained as a scam.....No one is even selling anything on the site that the video is on ....

   As stated, at these voltages, even miniscule capacitance is significant. The capacative coupling is causing the plates to be charged 180° out of phase with the source and saturated with charge. The easier it can change charges to a fully opposing state, the stronger the attraction. The lightweight, highly conductive aluminum foil can easily achieve this at those frequencies, hence it sticks to the charged lightbulb and plasma balls. The copper foil, as seen in the video, has a harder time. It's greater mass causes it to lag a tiny bit, making it's frequency of oscillation slightly lower than the source. This shift in frequency sets up a small beat frequency, which at these potentials, is enough to be seen as the copper foil visably waving back and forth in the video as it gains and looses attraction. However, as soon as the AC is switched off, you can see the foil instantly stick to the bulb as there are still charges remaining in both. The leaf, while lower conductivity, is also low mass, so again is easily attracted.

How are they 180 degrees out of phase? I thought even in a pure capacitative system the phase difference would be a maximum of 90 degrees. Although your explanation given seems to be the most logical one. Again, the streamers in the plasma ball are touching the housing on the bulb, I dont see that here. The beat idea could maybe work, but I don't see how it would be extremely sensitive to the AC frequency change or how the frequency would be low enough to have unidirectional attraction.

[BU508A]

  Be careful, this is how they suck you into their world of investigating their fantasy of having supposedly found "new science", which they take to mean "new unfounded laws of physics" etc.
Remember, it's in the Topic title "Totally new science". No, no it's not.

  

That's what I should have expected when offering to discuss this topic without throwing ad hominem attacks. Instead of offering his own interpretation, he just sticks to his attack on a subject that I haven't even mentioned directly in this thread at all.

I am constantly saying how I don't think the video has anything to do with free energy, yet you guys keep bringing it back up....

So you tell me who is the obsessed one? 

 

The "be careful, this is how the boogey man gets you " line still has me rolling. "Do not discuss anything with them! Your mind will melt if you come across any of his wacky ideas!"

Notice that instead of commenting on the effect itself, he finds it easier to dismiss anything considered interesting (here he will have to reference how we have earned being dismissed). It's heresy!!!!

Nothing is ever going to be new in electronics and electromagnetism guys! We already know everything there is to know so just give up now....every experiment has been done, every effect classified, every anamoly explained as a scam.....No one is even selling anything on the site that the video is on ....

It becomes clearer and clearer that you don't understand the main point.

Let me change a bit your perspective.

#### Start ####
Amazing Newton experiment! Totally new science

<Link to a YT video where one can watch a stone thrown in a weird way>

Deco56: Look! that's weird! can somebody explain this?

EEVBlog: Yeah, that's a sideeffect of Newton's laws.

Deco56: But this is something new I've never seen!

EEVBlog: Perhaps, but it is all covered well in Newton's laws and these are well covered in Einstein's Relativity Theory

Deco56: But there must be something new! We don't know everything about Newton's laws!

EEVBlog:     Go and study physics! Perhaps then you'll understand.

Deco56: *stomps with his feet* But I want it to be new and unkown to you!

EEVblog: [...]  *wanders away*
#### End ####

And now replace the following things:

- Link to the video in the first posting from you
- Newton's laws with Maxwell-equations
- Einstein's Relativity Theory with the QED from Feynman et. al.

Then you have your explanation why everybody here is annoyed by your claims.

Study physics and in the end, everything will turn out well.

[joeqsmith]

.........
But Deco56 is the forum's resident "free energy" advocate.
Just check out his first post on this forum:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/free-energy-is-just-a-bad-name/msg858997/#msg858997

Now that's funny!!  I think when I had came across Peter Lindemann, everyone referred to him as Dr.   So I looked him up and sure enough, I want to say it was in nutrition.   Something like that.  What a nut job.    From Deco56's post you linked, he could be Dr Lindemann!!   

I find these sort of people entertaining and don't mind having a little fun with them.   I have a friend who bought one of Dr Lindemann's comic books.  Pretty funny stuff.   The best part was the story of the device..       

***
For entertainment purposes only:
http://electricmotorsecrets.com/

Electric Motor Secrets, Part 2
Understanding the Lockridge Device
by Peter A. Lindemann, D.Sc.

At the end of World War 2, an astonishingly simple, self-running machine was discovered in a basement in Germany. It was made from an ordinary automotive generator with a few modifications. Now, the method of operation of this machine has been revealed. This product contains the full, illustrated lecture given by Dr. Lindemann at the Renaissance Conference in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho in November of 2010. It explains the physics of operating ordinary electric motors with reduced Back EMF and the method to produce a fully self-running motor-generator combination using "off-the-shelf" components.

I do like the story line.

*****
http://free-energy.ws/peter-lindemann/

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Party poopers! I'm all for free energy too. 240 euros my last electricity bill, sheesh.

[joeqsmith]

I wouldn't be surprised if there is not some interaction with the meter.   If we were able to heat the filament, it should do a pretty good job rectifying.   If I took the time to try and get a common ground, we could look at it with a scope.  If I were going to try and patent it, I may need to dive into these details but it appears this guy beat me to it...

https://youtu.be/ZdSXghip7Tw?t=121

Thanks for the reply.

WOW, that is an amazing video        

So, he turns a normal/standard automotive car brake/rear light bulb, with a filament pair, inside the vacuum (or similar). Into, a somewhat usable, valve/tube rectifier/diode. Amazing   
Although, I did have to check that it wasn't dated, April 1st.
The other bit(s), were interesting as well, although I haven't seen the very beginning of it, yet. Only where to time linked it, to the end, including the battery charging section (which worries me, if the battery explodes, because of Hydrogen).

I only watched that part with the bulb.   I'm impressed with Googles search engine.  I would assume in this case what they show is indeed real.  You could try the same sort of experiment using higher voltages and going outside the bulb easy enough.   If you use an ignition coil,  you may want to add some sort of clamp to protect the scope.   

[MK14]

Party poopers! I'm all for free energy too. 240 euros my last electricity bill, sheesh.

I can sell you a device, which will cut your electricity bills, by 50%, and it really works.

[MK14]

I only watched that part with the bulb.   I'm impressed with Googles search engine.  I would assume in this case what they show is indeed real.  You could try the same sort of experiment using higher voltages and going outside the bulb easy enough.   If you use an ignition coil,  you may want to add some sort of clamp to protect the scope.   

Yes, google searches, can be amazing at times. E.g. You remember something, from many decades ago, so you type in a few words, describing it, and the concept. In the belief, that it almost certainly, won't find it or even something remotely similar, then it finds it!

E.g. I was looking for details on this mega rare computer (or computer like), thing, that was a one off project, built by some hobbyists (Electronics), who I might have known/met, a very long time ago. Hobbyist, and relatively low key.
So, not a chance in a million years, that I'd find it, but I tried, anyway.

Amazingly (because I could tell the search the exact area, and other specific details), it found it. In an ancient copy of a local newspaper, to that area, an embarrassingly long time ago, longer than you might think (> decades and decades). Which had a brief (but quite detailed), article, about it.

I'm more interested, in using them as novelty 'valve/tube' rectifiers/diodes. As it seems fascinating to use a cheap (I hope I can still get them cheaply), automotive car brake/rear light, bulb. With two filaments, and vacuumed, rather than gas filled version.

But yes, I'd want to use an old/unimportant scope, protected (i.e. high voltage, if I have them) scope probe(s) and clamp or stuff, to protect the scope. Possibly not all the things I just listed, but at least enough, to feel confident, the scope won't get destroyed.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Party poopers! I'm all for free energy too. 240 euros my last electricity bill, sheesh.

I can sell you a device, which will cut your electricity bills, by 50%, and it really works.

Wow, thanks! You think it can be hacked to cut the bills by more than that?

[joeqsmith]

Doing a search for the guy that ran that large site I mentioned:
https://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2016/06/sterling-d-allan-pleads-guilty-to-molesting-underage-girls-3364690.html

I suspect you will find many of these people have some major issues.   It's odd they seem to be attracted to technology.   Like our LED oscillator guy.   Even after a few years, he is still having fun inventing amazing new science with LEDs.

[BU508A]

Doing a search for the guy that ran that large site I mentioned:
https://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2016/06/sterling-d-allan-pleads-guilty-to-molesting-underage-girls-3364690.html

I suspect you will find many of these people have some major issues.   It's odd they seem to be attracted to technology.   Like our LED oscillator guy.   Even after a few years, he is still having fun inventing amazing new science with LEDs.

As long as he doesn't do anything stupid...