Amazing Tesla experiments! Totally new science

[Deco56]

So on certain topics we know everything but on other topics we don't know everything....but aren't they related in some ways? If we don't know it all, we simply don't know it all. Can't claim total knowledge on sub-topics....that's like saying I have 3 pieces of a million piece puzzle but I see an image in these three pieces so then I know what that whole image is in context. Fallacy.

[MK14]

So if we don't have access to CERN we won't find anything new or interesting. Cool.

Predominantly, (most of the time), new things, won't be discovered.
If you see a strange effect, such as a piece of paper, sticking to your fridge, for no reason.

It could be you have just invented/discovered, a new particle, or force of attraction, or property of Physics, that no one has discovered yet. Maybe it will lead to warp drives and/or mini-black holes, possibly even time-travel.

But, almost certainly, there is a rational explanation. Maybe the fridge has got something sticky on it, maybe the paper has got something sticky on it, maybe the paper was very light, and got statically charged up. Etc.

You can't just take a video of the paper sticking to your fridge, post it on youtube, then go on a scientific website, and proclaim you have found a new Physics something, and want your recognition, Noble prize, honorary Professorships, and most importantly, lots and lots of money, now.

[joeqsmith]

Our patience has reached 0.
...

What we would find, is that if you connected a voltmeter to the foil is an electric charge. Why didn't they do this in the first place instead of jumping to wild conclusions? I don't know, find them and ask them yourself.

If they use UNI-T, the meter may not read anything, ever again.   I base this on my own experiments.   

Yeah, if you do conduct this experiment, it would probably be wise to use a high voltage meter/voltage dropping probe. A VTVM would probably also survive (not good good for it, but would likely survive), but you could again use a voltage dropping probe. You could also use a scope with an HV differential probe, so even if if the probe unit blows up hopefully the scope survives.

My high voltage probes all have a fairly low resistance and would present too much of a load to be of much use.   I would imagine my old electrometer could measure the charge directly with things turned down low enough.  The input impedance is high enough but the voltage is pretty limited.     

So if we don't have access to CERN we won't find anything new or interesting. Cool.

It does not imply that you personally at your level could not learn totally new things that seem really amazing to you.   

[Cyberdragon]

There's also Hi-Z meters, like my old Fairchild 7000. Though agian, if you aren't sure of the voltage, use an external divider.

[Deco56]

The personal attacks are hilarious.

"Yes of course you are an idiot so if you learn something new it could be amazing. But our physicists work with billion dollar equipment so unless they say there is something new, there usually isn't. Of course only they are allowed to say so, they are the experts. Anyone who disagrees or does something outside of their work which is different is an absolute con artist because they don't have a billion dollar machine. End of story"

Great story guys. So let's all twiddle our thumbs and just wait for CERN to tell us if we learned something new. That way, we personally don't have to do anything ourselves yet it gives us the confidence of an expert in the field, although we are more certainly just parroting what they tell us.  

[MK14]

The personal attacks are hilarious.

I now better understand Dave's/EEVBLOGs original warnings about this thread, and the sort of person who starts them.

Most of us have realised it's a complete waste of time engaging these people or watching these experiments and trying to understand and explain it to them why it's dead end and how they are wrong.

You were so right, apparently!

[BU508A]

The personal attacks are hilarious.

I now better understand Dave's/EEVBLOGs original warnings about this thread, and the sort of person who starts them.

Most of us have realised it's a complete waste of time engaging these people or watching these experiments and trying to understand and explain it to them why it's dead end and how they are wrong.

You were so right, apparently!

Jepp. Dunning-Kruger effect at work.

[joeqsmith]

Why would you consider it a personal attack?  Learning new things is nothing to be ashamed of.  Actually, if you are not learning new things, I would say you have a problem.

An incandescent bulb is also filled with noble gas, which we can't see if there's any ionization at all due to their shitty video quality and external light sources.

Here you can see the ignition coils secondary attached to a resistor then to a cap and finally, one side of the small automotive bulb.  The other side of the secondary is floating in freespace next to the bulb.   The Brymen is looking at the AC and DC components across the cap.  As we can see, it has about 22VDC and 0.28VAC.    I have just invented the light bulb rectifier...     

Don't try these experiments with your UNI-T meters.....     

[Cyberdragon]

Ah, a gas rectifier, nice.

[Deco56]

Not sure how the rectifier shows the effect I discussed. Apparently still no videos showing the same effect anywhere or comments on the Tesla quote.

[joeqsmith]

While I don't recommend using a meter like the UT181A for anything with potentially high voltages, this particular one has a few tricks.

Shown with a larger house light and the 181A.  Notice we still see the rectification.   Amazing!!!   

[Deco56]

Who said anything about rectification being the effect shown in the videos?

[IanB]

Who said anything about rectification being the effect shown in the videos?

Aren't you curious about whether this is some new physics that might have been discovered here?

[Cerebus]

The personal attacks are hilarious.

"Yes of course you are an idiot so if you learn something new it could be amazing. But our physicists work with billion dollar equipment so unless they say there is something new, there usually isn't. Of course only they are allowed to say so, they are the experts. Anyone who disagrees or does something outside of their work which is different is an absolute con artist because they don't have a billion dollar machine. End of story"

Great story guys. So let's all twiddle our thumbs and just wait for CERN to tell us if we learned something new. That way, we personally don't have to do anything ourselves yet it gives us the confidence of an expert in the field, although we are more certainly just parroting what they tell us.  

Why are you putting stuff in direct quote marks as if someone said it to you here, when as far as I can tell you just made it up yourself on the spur of the moment?

Look, you claim to have two relevant  degrees:

I actually do have degrees in both Physics and Engineering,

So why the heck are you having such a hard time understanding (1) basic scientific method, (2) simple, well understood electrostatics? We're not talking about the epistemology of the scientific method here (well, none of us are except you and I suspect that of being somewhat diversionary), we're talking basic scientific method, but it seems to just pass over your head. I have heard you propose no, exactly zero, theory or hypothesis to explain why what you've brought here is anything genuinely novel. Yet when others have proposed perfectly reasonable hypotheses for the phenomenon involved you keep insisting that they then reproduce the effect wholesale before you'll even consider it - you then have the gall to accuse others of closemindedness.

Far be if from me to accuse anyone of being deliberately misleading, but I can't help harbouring a suspicion that your degree certificates are watermarked "Izal".

[Cerebus]

Not sure how the rectifier shows the effect I discussed. Apparently still no videos showing the same effect anywhere or comments on the Tesla quote.

And there won't be because it's an unreasonable demand and nobody's taking the bait.

Oh, and Boo!

[MK14]

While I don't recommend using a meter like the UT181A for anything with potentially high voltages, this particular one has a few tricks.

Shown with a larger house light and the 181A.  Notice we still see the rectification.   Amazing!!!   

I hope you don't mind me jumping in, and being inquisitive (off topic as well).

Could the multimeter itself be acting as the rectifier. I.e. the internal protection diodes (or whatever is on the front end of the multimeter), has slight biases, one way or the other, hence the +DC voltage, eventually ?
If you reverse the multimeter leads (safely without electrocuting yourself, when it just showed say +7.07 Volts DC). Does it show a similar value, but negative ?

Maybe the multimeter is giving a 'false' value, because the unusual setup, is distorting the AC waveforms enough, to fool the multimeter, into believing there is a DC voltage on top of the AC one.

Thinking out of the box, a filament bulb, is not that different to the old valve/tube rectifiers. Could it be slightly turned into a valve/tube somehow ?
A sort of stray effect or something.

[Cyberdragon]

I did comment on the Tesla quote a while back, he ignored me. Didn't even say I was wrong just ignored me...

I hypothesised that a bulb covered in metal will still light when connected to a tesla coil because of the skin effect. IE the current flowing through the covering/coating in turn induces current in the gas.

[Deco56]

Cyberdragon I doubt you read and understood the quote properly. You don't think Tesla knew about induction effects and skin effect?   

     I have heard you propose no, exactly zero, theory or hypothesis to explain why what you've brought here is anything genuinely novel. 

As to this not being a new effect, I asked repeatedly for an example of this effect, somewhere, anywhere. Exactly zero have been shown, so in that sense this is new and different. If this is so simple and basic, should be able to reproduce it easily....

[Cerebus]

Cyberdragon I doubt you read and understood the quote properly. You don't think Tesla knew about induction effects and skin effect?   

     I have heard you propose no, exactly zero, theory or hypothesis to explain why what you've brought here is anything genuinely novel. 

As to this not being a new effect, I asked repeatedly for an example of this effect, somewhere, anywhere. Exactly zero have been shown, so in that sense this is new and different. If this is so simple and basic, should be able to reproduce it easily....

Sorry, are you kidding? 'Nobody will show me another plywood experiment setup with the same effect and a different explanation so the original must be true.' Right, nobody here is going to demonstrate walking naked, slowly, through a huge petrol fire and coming out unscathed - therefore it must be safe, so you should totally go and try it.

If you're going to troll, and by now I'm pretty firmly convinced you are, you really, really should make demolishing your arguments at least slightly harder than tearing wet tissue paper.

[EEVblog]

  It's your time to waste, knock yourself out.
Most of us have realised it's a complete waste of time engaging these people or watching these experiments and trying to understand and explain it to them why it's dead end and how they are wrong.

I love these types of responses because it really gives you an insight into some of the hubris people carry around. "We already know everything about electronics and electromagnetism so there is no point in looking into any experiments because there is nothing new in the Universe we already know it all." Hell of a scientific spirit there.

Nope, it's because every time we spend our time looking at this stuff and it's obvious that they are doing stuff wrong or simply don't have a clue, and you try and explain it to them and they don't want to listen, you eventually learn it's not worth your time any more.
Every time.
EVERY DAMN TIME.
These people have earned engineers ignoring them.

[Cerebus]

Why would you consider it a personal attack?  Learning new things is nothing to be ashamed of.  Actually, if you are not learning new things, I would say you have a problem.

An incandescent bulb is also filled with noble gas, which we can't see if there's any ionization at all due to their shitty video quality and external light sources.

Here you can see the ignition coils secondary attached to a resistor then to a cap and finally, one side of the small automotive bulb.  The other side of the secondary is floating in freespace next to the bulb.   The Brymen is looking at the AC and DC components across the cap.  As we can see, it has about 22VDC and 0.28VAC.    I have just invented the light bulb rectifier...     

Don't try these experiments with your UNI-T meters..... 

Did you clean the light bulb first, with meths or IPA? If not, I suspect you're just seeing a leakage current. Although in that scenario I can't immediately explain the polarity of the response, but that could be highly dependant on the details of the measuring circuit. For instance, varistors are actually made of a non-linear semiconductor material, that might have some polarity dependant behaviour (pure speculation).

[Deco56]

If you see an error in set up and explanation please show where and how in the videos referenced. I was just saying if this is so common and basic you should be able to find a similar effect shown SOMEWHERE, ANYWHERE. No one said you had to be the one to do the experiment yourself. Not one reference, not one video, not one example of an effect like the one shown.

I didn't say there alot of scams out there, but if you are going to stop investigating them ALL because MOST don't work then you might as well retire your scientific spirit  and call it quits. "Most dont work so nothing new will ever be discovered we already know everything there is to know about electricity, it's a closed case."   

[EEVblog]

Far be if from me to accuse anyone of being deliberately misleading, but I can't help harbouring a suspicion that your degree certificates are watermarked "Izal".

I'm sure the degrees are legit.
Countless well educated people can become deluded and obsessed with things so much that all objectivity goes out the window. They simply want to believe in *insert thing here*, be it religion, some conspiracy, or that there simply must be new laws of physics out there they can discover in their backyard shed and that all these free energy researchers as so close to finding it, and/or it's being covered up by Big Energy etc.
Like I said, if you want to work on this stuff, knock yourself out, probably a fun and interesting hobby. Just don't come to an engineering forum and then be surprised when people roll their eyes and discount all your "you've got to see this!", "Can you explain THIS!?" excitement out of hand. Engineers have been bombarded with this stuff for generations, and they are tired of it.

[Deco56]

To be clear and state it once again since this keeps coming up. I claimed no free energy in this thread, directly or indirectly. I did not claim any free energy shown in the videos.  I have nothing personally invested in their websites either so why does it come up in THIS THREAD? I claimed no conspiracy, no philosophy and NO CLAIM of free energy. I said it was a cool and interesting effect I have not come across before. I asked for references to similar effects. None given....why? If this is so common and basic how can you not find any reference for it?

If you are tired of investigating experiments and would rather just dismiss everything as prior knowledge why not retire right now from being an engineer? It is a shame you have allowed your inquisitive spirit that led you to engineering initially to fade away...

[MK14]

To be clear and state it once again since this keeps coming up. I claimed no free energy in this thread, directly or indirectly.

Actually, you apparently did. Here it goes. (I am going for the INDIRECTLY bit of your reply).

Your opening post, has a link.

Hi all,

Please check out this amazing work done on this site: http://www.am-innovations.com/category/experiments/experiments-single-wire-currents/

Check the video that is about half way done, around the 30 minute mark are some very unusual and amazing effects that can't be explained with our regular understanding of electronics and physics. Anyone want to try this out themselves or should we just dismiss it as impossible since we already know everything?

Which says in it: (Bold and font size change, made by me, for dramatic effect    )

4. Lindemann, P., The free energy secrets of cold electricity, Clear Tech, Inc., 1st Ed, 2001.