9900 mAh 18650 accumulator

[OwO]

Now the question is, how could this be stopped? Obviously eBay doesn't care, they just refund the money with buyer protection and the shop continues to sell them. Maybe if everyone who could measure the capacity would buy one, then claim a refund and leave a negative feedback, would stop these shops There are cheap battery capacity tester for like $20 on eBay as well.

Why not just not buy from ebay anymore? I see everyone on this forum complaining about shit from ebay yet they still keep buying the crap. I've bought things from ebay, banggood, and aliexpress before and the only place I ever got good (based on discharge capacity test) 18650 cells was from aliexpress. Of course if you want absolute assurance you probably want to buy from nkon.nl (since you are in EU) or similar.

[FrankBuss]

Right, and I'm already doing this. I bought a few things from Aliexpress and so far no problems.

But eBay has a wider choice of articles. And most of the time it is no problem. For example my Arduino Nano clones I bought from eBay are working without problems, or other standard products like the ESP32-wroom, or SMD to DIP adapter boards. But maybe better next time to search on Aliexpress first for everything.

[BravoV]

I see everyone on this forum complaining about shit from ebay yet they still keep buying the crap.

Meh .. just freebie junkies, and sad part is , I believe most are knowledgeable enough to be aware, that those mostly are fishy deal, and yet, they're just hiding behind the dispute and refund mechanism, and keep the merchandise for free.

Plain greedy, that is all about, nothing to see here, move along.

[FrankBuss]

The greedy persons are the sellers. Probably I wouldn't have complained if I would have gotten a reasonably good accumulator, knowing that sellers sometimes exaggerate a bit. But I really didn't expect to get garbage. There would be no problems, if the sellers were honest and would sell only good products, for a fair price.

But I agree that it can be a problem, if the buyers expect too low prices and don't want to pay fair prices for good products.

[BravoV]

But I really didn't expect to get garbage.

Well, with your 2000+ posts count, clearly you're not a noob in electronics. Keep arguing & pretending you're purely 100% innocent is just showing your true attitude, greedy.

Anyway, next time if I found a deal of cheap <$5 of 18650 battery, that claimed to have 121GigaAh  at eBay/Aliexpress or any online deal, that have a robust dispute/claim mechanism to protect buyer, surely I will pm you 1st. 

[FrankBuss]

I got another battery, and finally this was a good one. Here is the auction, "Sony Li-Ionen Akku | US 18650 VTC6 | 3,7V 3100mAh 30A". I couldn't find an official datasheet for it, but here is a presentation. It can be discharged with up to 20 A! I tested it with 1 A:



Auction says min capacity is 3000 mAh. Measured with 1 A discharge current was about 2900 mAh, good enough. I'm guess with 0.1 A and a cutoff voltage of 2.5 V (I used 3 V), it could be 3000 mAh. So if you need a good 18650, but without protection, I can recommend this product.

[OwO]

Why even bother with that crap when you can get real NCR18650B for cheaper: https://eu.nkon.nl/panasonic-ncr18650b-made-in-japan.html

2900mAh likely means it's new old stock or (worse) refurbished.

Unless that listing has changed its price, $5 is not a cheap price for a 3000mAh cell. $2 is how much you should expect to pay for a 3000mAh cell of unknown origin (but passing capacity tests), and $5 is the point you should expect genuine panasonic cells with guarantees.

[FrankBuss]

According to the diagram on page 5 here, I would say it is well within spec. I used a cutoff voltage of 2.9 V and 1 A discharge current. If I would have gone down to 2 V, it would be even more than 3000 mAh, but I didn't want to stress the battery. And 2900 is less than 4% difference from 3000, good enough for me

[thm_w]

Stupid deal, for such price you can buy genuine 3350 mAh  panasonic ncr18650b.

I think there are real NCR18650B listings on aliexpress, but you have to be careful and be sure to read the 1 star reviews first. I once bought some NCR18650Bs from aliexpress when I lived abroad, and the capacity mostly checked out (measured between 3100 - 3200mAh). I would not bother trying the no-brand or "XXXX-fire" branded cells. Those are guaranteed to be mislabeled (taobao listings of *fire cells all state real capacity is not labeled capacity).

Yeah I've bought a few sets of NCR18650B (2.50 to 3.50 EUR each, includes shipping cost) from aliexpress. All 10 cells measured decent capacity, 3190mAh to 3400mAh. Most of they come with protection circuitry as well, oddly at the same or less cost, which is a huge bonus for me.
Those Sony cells are probably good, but more for high drain applications, not sure if its protected.


Going forward this is the only cell I will use for low drain devices.
Looks like my cutoff was ~2.9V: https://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Charger%20LiitoKala%20Lii-500%20UK.html

[metrologist]

Plain greedy, that is all about, nothing to see here, move along.

You seem to post that as an attack on the consumer, like it is their fault for trying to be frugal. Do I misunderstand? It's OK for all sellers to play a shell and pea game?

[FrankBuss]

Got a reply from the seller of the 12000 mAh RAKIETA accumulator, which I measured 1500 mAh. He says there is nothing wrong with it, I should have read the fine print in the auction text carefully:

Sie erhalten hier eine sehr gute Qualität zum bestmöglichen Preis, auch wenn der Hersteller bei den Leistungsangaben etwas übertrieben hat.

Translation:

You get a very good quality at the best possible price, even if the manufacturer has slightly exaggerated the performance specifications.

I'll wait what the eBay customer service thinks about it.

[FrankBuss]

The first seller, toptrade2u, refunded my money fully now. He still begs me to remove the negative feedback, which of course I won't do. I told him it is his fault and he should remove the auction, which he doesn't do. So if someone wants a crappy 500 mAh battery for free, buy this one: https://www.ebay.de/itm/123765381068 and then request a refund, and leave a negative feedback. Maybe someday these scammers will learn, but probably they will just create a new account if it gets too many negative feedbacks, these criminals don't change.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

They did nothing wrong... because "9900mAh" is the cell's "model number/name" not any thing else you might have (wrongly) imagined. 

[PlainName]

They did nothing wrong... because "9900mAh" is the cell's "model number/name" no any thing else you might have (wrongly) imagined. 

Don't know what his auction says, but here's an English one with a slightly lesser battery (only 9800mAh!):

eBay auction: #173672497359

Same should apply to this, no? Take a look at the small print:

Specifications:Color: yellowType: li-ionVoltage: 3.7VCapacity: 9800mAhModel: 18650

Seems clear enough to me that the 'model number/name' is "18650" and the alleged capacity is 9.8Ah.

[madires]

Got a reply from the seller of the 12000 mAh RAKIETA accumulator, which I measured 1500 mAh. He says there is nothing wrong with it, I should have read the fine print in the auction text carefully:

Sie erhalten hier eine sehr gute Qualität zum bestmöglichen Preis, auch wenn der Hersteller bei den Leistungsangaben etwas übertrieben hat.

As a seller located in Germany he should know the BGB. If he offers 12Ah LiIon batteries he has to deliver them. The fine print doesn't change that. Actually it even confirms that he knows that the LiIon battery doesn't provide 12Ah. So it's clearly a wilful fraud. If you like you can file a criminal complaint.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Citroen sold a car with the name 2CV that didn't have 2CV... 

[FrankBuss]

As a seller located in Germany he should know the BGB. If he offers 12Ah LiIon batteries he has to deliver them. The fine print doesn't change that. Actually it even confirms that he knows that the LiIon battery doesn't provide 12Ah. So it's clearly a wilfully fraud. If you like you can file a criminal complaint.

Where can I file this? But I think this might be too much trouble, law costs etc.

But I thought about sending an Abmahnung (cease and desist letter). After all sometimes I sell on eBay, too, and I'm registered as a business at eBay. If he continues to sell this crap, then it might be easier with this letter to win a law suite. But would make even more sense for the bigger sellers who send good batteries. I wrote to one asking if he would do this, but no answer so far. Maybe they think the trouble is not worth it, and would be like whack-a-mole: you stop one, but at the same time another one appears. And I guess impossible or far to expensive to try this with a seller in China.

[SparkyFX]

Sie erhalten hier eine sehr gute Qualität zum bestmöglichen Preis, auch wenn der Hersteller bei den Leistungsangaben etwas übertrieben hat.

Who cares about the power, when the capacity is in question

[FrankBuss]

Good point, I will mention this in my next message to him

[SiliconWizard]

Citroen sold a car with the name 2CV that didn't have 2CV... 

Yes, it was "2CV".

"CV" in France is a tax system for cars, which is somewhat related to, but is definitely nothing like the power of the engine. It's calculated from various parameters, and influenced how much you had to pay to "register" the car, and then you had to pay for a specific tax once a year, which also depended on this figure. Now the yearly tax has been dropped for individual owners, but it still influences what you pay to register the car, what some companies will pay yearly to own it, and how much you typically pay for your car insurance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_horsepower

To give you an idea of the scale of this rating, a 15CV car is already typically a pretty powerful car (you're already in the sports car territory.)

The power figure in HP SAE of the Citroen 2CV was from 9hp to 29hp depending on the version.

And for the history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_2CV

The 2CV was produced from 1948 to 1990(!), and the tax rules had changed several times, so I'm not 100% sure the 2CV was still 2CV in the last years of production (I'd have to check), but it was when it got released.

[FrankBuss]

Today I could ask eBay to solve the case for the RAKIETA gold 12000 mAh Lithium Ionen Akku 3,7 V Typ 18650 battery, eBay auction: #371837870210. They immediately refunded it fully. This wasn't the problem, because the seller "allerlei-laden2012" offered to refund it, if I send it back, but he didn't want to pay the shipping cost, which is required by the eBay regulations, if the article doesn't match the description. Well, now I have at least the money. I asked the seller if he wants to pay me the shipping cost, if he wants his crap back.

There are multiple negative ratings with similar behavior for this seller allerlei-laden2012, and he is still selling the battery. I wrote eBay that this is a scam, but they don't care. Lesson learned, I will use Aliexpress more often.

[BravoV]

Thanks, I will buy from those sellers your posted here, with the intention and plan to complain once I got them, and then get full refund.

Not bad, free batteries, besides I am smart enough and you too, that knowing sending it back with them paying the cost in not an option from the beginning.

Please, keep doing this kind of report, at the AliExpress too if you find more, I will follow your every steps while piling up free batteries, you are my hero. 

[FrankBuss]

Thanks, I guess this is the only solution which helps. If everyone buys this crap and gets refunded, maybe someday they will get it that it doesn't make sense to sell it anymore.

[FrankBuss]

I just got another message from the seller for the rakieta accumulators, because I asked him if he still wants it back. He wrote that he didn't have to pay it back, he still has the money, and eBay just refunded me. This is not a good incentive to be honest on eBay as a seller, and another reason to use other services.

[PlainName]

and eBay just refunded me

Probably simpler and cheaper for Ebay in the short term, but it's not sustainable. If just a few people demand a refund it's a mere cost of doing business, but it lots of people do then they'll have to review they way they resolve these issues, and the only option open to them is to charge the vendor. So on that basis it makes sense to use Ebay even more

Well, more people demanding refunds, anyway. If one person ends up wanting a refund from 90% of his wins then pretty soon they'll be persona non grata.