2018 Macbook Pro terrible thermal design

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

But one core (and even perhaps two) at turbo speeds draws less power than TDP, it's temp what would make it/them throttle down, there's not a preset time limit.

[rrinker]

 Others are having the same issue with the I9 in similar form factor laptops. Just make it a bit bigger (but hey, thin is sooooo cool, err, hot). You don;t need oen of those monster 'portable desktops', unless you also want to carry around a full performance GPU as well - just a slightly thicker machine and there would be enough space for a beefier thermal solution. I call BS that the real TDP is only 45 watts. The I7 at slightly lower clocks is 45 watts, add 2 cores and increase the speed and it's STILL 45 watts? How in the name of physics can they do that? Oh, by making the CPU throttle more aggressively, I supposed.

[Howardlong]

Kinda interesting that claim that Adobe Premier performs better in Windows than OSX, all the Adobe developers I know of work on MBPs.

This size/thickness of laptop is really not designed for the power output capability. My XPS15 has a 130W power supply,

If that’s the current 2018 Coffee Lake version, does the power supply use the USB C ports with some special Dell proprietary extra power feature, or does it use a DC power plug? How big and heavy is the power brick? (I am in the market at the moment, although my 6 yo 2012 MBPr still performs remarkably well).

[ConKbot]

Title has a superfluous "2018" and "book pro" in it.

Apple computer products have always had hit or miss cooling. All the way back to the G3 days, if not earlier. Some good units, some bad units, its always been spotty at best.    just how its been, and it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone now.

[BrianHG]

The mac-book pro's cpu isn't thermally throttling, it's the cpu core VRMs power supply overheating and conking out, see here:

[Fsck]

Kinda interesting that claim that Adobe Premier performs better in Windows than OSX, all the Adobe developers I know of work on MBPs.

This size/thickness of laptop is really not designed for the power output capability. My XPS15 has a 130W power supply,

If that’s the current 2018 Coffee Lake version, does the power supply use the USB C ports with some special Dell proprietary extra power feature, or does it use a DC power plug? How big and heavy is the power brick? (I am in the market at the moment, although my 6 yo 2012 MBPr still performs remarkably well).

Current 9570 version of 2018, uses 4.5mm barrel plug, same as previous generation. my power brick is slightly covered in wiring so it's inconvenient to weigh it. I'd guess 200-600g, somewhere in that range.
You can power the thing using thunderbolt if you want and have a thunderbolt dock.

[FlyingHacker]

What kind of crazy person says that Premiere is designed to work better on a PC? That's bananas! Adobe stuff is always Mac First, PC second.

Back in 2000 Adobe product manager told me the PC was now the preferred and optimized platform for Photoshop, and that was almost two decades ago. Most adobe products run better on Windows, have for ages.

[amyk]

In video he says "the Macbook is going to inherently be slower, that's normal, Adobe Premiere is not as well optimized for Mac OS as is for Windows, but that has nothing to do with Apple..."

Pure bullshit. Video rendering is exactly the sort of workload that depends almost exclusively on CPU performance; the OS isn't involved at all for the sort of computations that dominate such workloads. It's like a program that computes pi --- you're likely not going to find any difference regardless of OS (or whether there is one at all), unless the OS is itself doing a bunch of work in the background with other processes and taking CPU time away from the main task.

He should've put his money where his mouth is, and installed Windows to repeat the same benchmark.

[stj]

why does anybody buy Crapple anyway?
they have not made a decent piece of hardware since the PPC based brightly coloured systems.
back then the customer was no.1 too - support for life.

now they spend more time inventing new screws and hidden or overly short interconnects to help keep you out and the warranty amounts to "fuck you".

one other thing most people wont know about,
apple used to have an ftp server containing *everything* going back to the apple2.
o.s. disk images, bios dumps - everything.

when steve jobs died, they couldnt wait to erase those drives!!!   

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

ftp.info.apple.com

[bd139]

Indeed. Also lets not forget their open source stuff: https://opensource.apple.com/ and their contributions to postfix, LLVM, FreeBSD etc...

As for warranty, I've been extremely well looked after.

[arekm]

"Apple this morning released a new supplemental update to macOS High Sierra 10.13.6, which is designed to address a bug that caused the new eighth-generation quad-core and 6-core Intel processors in the 2018 MacBook Pro models to throttle inappropriately. "

"While there were many theories as to what was causing the throttling, Apple has discovered that there was a missing digital key in the firmware that impacted the thermal management system, driving down clock speeds under heavy thermal loads. This is what has been addressed in today's update. "

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/24/2018-macbook-pro-throttling-bug-fix/

[Howardlong]

Some reasons I have been shifting away from purchasing Apple

O No after market upgrade paths
O Built-in obsolescence
O Apple tax
O Bad engineering (e.g., GPU failures, keyboard failures, touch-IC)
O Limited repairability
O Horrendously expensive authorised repairs
O You pretty much have to buy AppleCare on higher end devices (more Apple Tax)
O Can’t recover soldered in drive on u/s motherboard
O Sub optimal Windows support (e.g. trackpad is crap)
O Dongle world and port starvation
O Apple lock in

[ebastler]

ftp.info.apple.com

Thanks, George. But is this FTP connection actually working for you? I can't seem to connect.

[stj]

not working here either.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Oh, sorry, no, that's the server stj referred to:

one other thing most people wont know about,
apple used to have an ftp server containing *everything* going back to the apple2.
o.s. disk images, bios dumps - everything.

when steve jobs died, they couldnt wait to erase those drives!!!   

It's not working anymore!

[Fsck]

"Apple this morning released a new supplemental update to macOS High Sierra 10.13.6, which is designed to address a bug that caused the new eighth-generation quad-core and 6-core Intel processors in the 2018 MacBook Pro models to throttle inappropriately. "

"While there were many theories as to what was causing the throttling, Apple has discovered that there was a missing digital key in the firmware that impacted the thermal management system, driving down clock speeds under heavy thermal loads. This is what has been addressed in today's update. "

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/24/2018-macbook-pro-throttling-bug-fix/

I still don't think Apple's design is so good that that it'll allow the full turbo for a sustained workload.

[bd139]

Oh, sorry, no, that's the server stj referred to:

one other thing most people wont know about,
apple used to have an ftp server containing *everything* going back to the apple2.
o.s. disk images, bios dumps - everything.

when steve jobs died, they couldnt wait to erase those drives!!!   

It's not working anymore!

Mirrored here: https://ia800501.us.archive.org/zipview.php?zip=/8/items/download.info.apple.com.2012.11/download.info.apple.com.2012.11.zip

[BrianHG]

I bet the new Macbook would have a meltdown and burn in flames and never complete an attempt to do a full 2 hour Quartus FPGA compile on it...

Funny, my HP laptop, though the fan goes haywire when Quartus compiles, it does not throttle...  Well, ok, my HP laptop is twice as thick as the Macbook and only has 4 cores...


Well, even my desktop, when doing a bunch of Quartus full builds all day turns into a space heater...

[Fsck]

I bet the new Macbook would have a meltdown and burn in flames and never complete an attempt to do a full 2 hour Quartus FPGA compile on it...

Funny, my HP laptop, though the fan goes haywire when Quartus compiles, it does not throttle...  Well, ok, my HP laptop is twice as thick as the Macbook and only has 4 cores...


Well, even my desktop, when doing a bunch of Quartus full builds all day turns into a space heater...

Luckily for us free users, Quartus is limited to a single core.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

I just have to open a few tabs in chrome with dodgy web pages and the fans sound like if the MBP was gonna lift off. But maybe it's my fault:

[langwadt]

"Apple this morning released a new supplemental update to macOS High Sierra 10.13.6, which is designed to address a bug that caused the new eighth-generation quad-core and 6-core Intel processors in the 2018 MacBook Pro models to throttle inappropriately. "

"While there were many theories as to what was causing the throttling, Apple has discovered that there was a missing digital key in the firmware that impacted the thermal management system, driving down clock speeds under heavy thermal loads. This is what has been addressed in today's update. "

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/24/2018-macbook-pro-throttling-bug-fix/

seems to me like they just told the CPU/GPU to not use maximum power at the same time, so instead of throttling
a lot half the time at high loads, they just throttle a little all the time at high loads

[stj]

I just have to open a few tabs in chrome with dodgy web pages and the fans sound like if the MBP was gonna lift off. But maybe it's my fault:

you know it's funny, Rossmann was saying in one of his video's that the problem with the "cult of apple" is users often blame themselves for the defects!!
and here you are - doing exactly that. 
NO, it's not your fault that the damned computer can be cooked via the browser.

[CJay]

It's apparently been 'fixed' with a software update, no idea how that's meant to work.

[stj]

It's apparently been 'fixed' with a software update, no idea how that's meant to work.

probably like the Nvidia fix by other laptop makers, agressive fan and lower clock.