Random rant about DipTrace

[poorchava]

Ok, so since I saw Dave's video about DipTrace I started testing it. I'm looking for something more suitable for small/medium projects than Altium. Altium is very nice, but not affordable for an individual and overpacked with features I'll probably never use. I said that I'd give DipTrace a go and I'm currently trying to design a small project with it (kind of sequential/safety-aware power supply for cnc machine). There are upsides and downsides.

Upsides:
-I absolutely love the footprint editor. It's so intuitive, fast and easy to use. It definitely makes up for somewhat lacking libraries&search engine. It's the best out of all software I've seen (at least for this degree of project complexity)
-much less resource-greedy (CPU&RAM) than Altium
-I like the way traces are being routed in schematic editor.
-I like the feature 'disconnect wires' in schematic editor
-I like the feature that narrows the wide traces automatically when approaching a small pad (although in some cases I have to turn it off)
-I like annotation options for schematics and pcb's

Now the downsides / ranting:
-Why can't I alternate between right- and left-turning 90/45 traces? I hate that When I want to change from 45>90 to 90>45 i use only space, but when I'd like to change the other way around I have to cycle thtough all the possible options? Cna't this be done automatically/alternating with one button?
-No cross-selection between schematic and layout. In Altium it was really fast. Select components (like schematic block), switch to schematic, L.ALT+t,o,l, select place, voila! Here it seems cumbersome as hell!
-I'm addicted to real-time DRC. Really hard to work without it when you once get a taste.
-selecting parts suck! When I have a simple block ready (like regulator+caps or opamp+feedback+caps) I group it. And i HAVE to switch to all layers mode because otherwise when I try to move parts, the traces will not move (because they weren't selected).
-I can't copy trace paterns. Let's say I have some OC outputs for relays. This generally consists of 2 resistors+bjt+diode. Normally I'd arrange component groups in the same patten, then route one set and then copy traces to the other ones. Simple and quick. And in DipTrace? Sure, i can select traces and copy them, and even paste them, but pasted they end up in some random location and I can't move them, because any drag action is interpreted as an attempt to change traces shape. Argh!
-When i have a piece of schematic and connect nets by names (to avoid long traces in schematic) and then group these objects weird thing  happens. When i want to change name of the same net, but from somwehere else (I'd expect to change name of whole net based on the fact that all the pieces of this net highlight), the name changes everywhere BESIDES the grouped parts. I have to manually ungroup them and group them again to get the nat name updated.
-I want a hotkey to switch component to the other side of pcb.
-why the hell does it want to create new signals everytime i click on component pad in PCB EDITOR? :<
-why don't libraries updates whenever i save them? With schematic symbols it's rather easy, just open other library and open the changes one again. It's updates. But with PCB patterns you have to do some library/remove/add/mumbo/jumbo/WTF?! I demand some update button!

That's so much for ranting right now. I wonder if i finish this pcb with DipTrace or switch back to Altium

[Kremmen]

A good rant. I am a long(ish) time user of Diptrace and agree with most of the issues you mention. What i wanted to say is that directing the rant to Diptrace forum would bring it to the eyes of the DT guys. Surprisingly, they listen to their customers and quite a number of improvements have been the result of user feedback. Even i have reported bugs and got them fixed.

[Mechatrommer]

i reported there that... while converting schematics to pcb, there should be an option for... components in each hirarchycal block should be placed together at different place to another circuit/components in different hirarcycal block. hirarchycal blocks are to simplify design, but when convert to pcb and they all mixed together, then there not much point. i'm not sure if there's such thing in altium. i dont know if they listening, my report needs moderation the last time i saw it... gotta go back sometime.

I'm addicted to real-time DRC

maybe that will power hog the software?

I can't copy trace paterns...because any drag action is interpreted as an attempt to change traces shape

try selecting all traces including "some" components in vicinity using click drag rectangle or "click+ctrl". right click paste in desired location and move mouse to one component until it turns cyan and drag move. yeah its messy sometime. and err... remember to right click once anywhere if you are in "edit trace mode", you should be able to move components and traces after that, can be quite tricky to remember in which mode we are.

[novarm44]

-Why can't I alternate between right- and left-turning 90/45 traces? I hate that When I want to change from 45>90 to 90>45 i use only space, but when I'd like to change the other way around I have to cycle thtough all the possible options? Cna't this be done automatically/alternating with one button?

Press "M" and switch to custom mode, then define "45>90" and "90>45" only. Now it does not choose all other options.

-No cross-selection between schematic and layout. In Altium it was really fast. Select components (like schematic block), switch to schematic, L.ALT+t,o,l, select place, voila! Here it seems cumbersome as hell!

This is plans, but not nearest release.

-I'm addicted to real-time DRC. Really hard to work without it when you once get a taste.

This is in plans for 2.3

-selecting parts suck! When I have a simple block ready (like regulator+caps or opamp+feedback+caps) I group it. And i HAVE to switch to all layers mode because otherwise when I try to move parts, the traces will not move (because they weren't selected).

This is bug in 2.2. Bottom grouped traces are not always selected. It has been fixed for the next update.

-I can't copy trace paterns. Let's say I have some OC outputs for relays. This generally consists of 2 resistors+bjt+diode. Normally I'd arrange component groups in the same patten, then route one set and then copy traces to the other ones. Simple and quick. And in DipTrace? Sure, i can select traces and copy them, and even paste them, but pasted they end up in some random location and I can't move them, because any drag action is interpreted as an attempt to change traces shape. Argh!

This feature was discussed. In 2.3 we add copying routing/placement for hierarchical blocks (already done). Probably saving patterns (several components with traces) will be added later.

-When i have a piece of schematic and connect nets by names (to avoid long traces in schematic) and then group these objects weird thing  happens. When i want to change name of the same net, but from somwehere else (I'd expect to change name of whole net based on the fact that all the pieces of this net highlight), the name changes everywhere BESIDES the grouped parts. I have to manually ungroup them and group them again to get the nat name updated.

That is strange. Grouped parts should work in the same way as non-grouped. We will check that.

-why the hell does it want to create new signals everytime i click on component pad in PCB EDITOR? :<

There are plans for 2.3 to change that.

-why don't libraries updates whenever i save them? With schematic symbols it's rather easy, just open other library and open the changes one again. It's updates. But with PCB patterns you have to do some library/remove/add/mumbo/jumbo/WTF?! I demand some update button!

This is also in plans, but I'm not sure about terms.

[FreeThinker]

+1 For Diptrace Support
@poorchava Remember this is DIPTRACE not Altium (check prices ) and something s will be different or plain missing, they have to be or else Altium would jump up and down on Diptrace until it was no more. Remember the Job v Gates 'Look and Feel' circus many years ago. IMHO diptrace gives you more Bang for your buck than ANY other package and actively address bugs and develop new features but you will always come up short if you compare feature lists with the likes of Altium otherwise it would just be Altium by a different name (not good) Just my 2cents.

[Mechatrommer]

if you compare feature lists with the likes of Altium otherwise it would just be Altium by a different name (not good)

well, make it like Altium! even with more features, but keep the price constant allright? thats why you are here for, to push impossibility

[Kremmen]

No, please _don't_ make it like Altium! Altium is already there and available for anyone who really needs it and has the bucks.
But really, do keep improving Diptrace of course. It already does almost everything i really need so no rants from me. My only suggestion is that you could hire a data architect for a while and redesign the component library system altogether to support component management domains (e.g. Diptrace standard, vendor specific extensions, customers' own extensions) and proper database style searches. The current system can be frustrating when you have to spend time hunting through individual files by just guessing where a component might be available.

[48X24X48X]

Online DRC is the only thing (on top of single component multiple pattern feature) I miss after switching from Altium to Diptrace 3 years ago. And today, Diptrace is going to make it happen!

Super super glad I made the switch! 

[poorchava]

I'm not saying that Diptrace should try to be like Altium. Altium has many downsies: price, price, price, overcomplication, resource greediness, not giving a sh!t about what users want, many of the features are redundant for like 95% of users. On the other hand I think all high-end EDA packages (Mentor, Zuken, Orcad, Altium) include features like: walkaround mode, push mode, schematic snippets/blocks, online DRC, cross-selection, discriminative search (eg. "find components with name R* belonging to net XXX"), teardrops.

Of course I understand that Diptrace is not supposed to be another $10k paackage, but rather something for a price affordable for smaller companies with good functionality set. I believe that if features listed above were realized (and copying trace patterns fixed) many users who currently use high-end, high-cost software would switch to Diptrace since they almost never use most of the features implemented in these expensive packages.

And many more who are currently using warez copies of high-end software would go legit with Diptrace.

[sonic]

-I can't copy trace paterns. Let's say I have some OC outputs for relays. This generally consists of 2 resistors+bjt+diode. Normally I'd arrange component groups in the same patten, then route one set and then copy traces to the other ones. Simple and quick. And in DipTrace? Sure, i can select traces and copy them, and even paste them, but pasted they end up in some random location and I can't move them, because any drag action is interpreted as an attempt to change traces shape. Argh!

This feature was discussed. In 2.3 we add copying routing/placement for hierarchical blocks (already done).

I'd need this very badly for my project. Is there already an ETA?

[reagle]

I'd also vote for more hotkeys like Altium does. Being able to drag things with a mouse with one hand while using the other hand to add vias, change things etc is very fast and powerful, It should also be a very simple thing to add since all the functionality is already there.
Things I am thinking at the moment (and I only did one layout in DipTrace so far vs countless in Altim)
Add via, Grid control, routing style control. I am sure there are more

[sonic]

-I can't copy trace paterns. Let's say I have some OC outputs for relays. This generally consists of 2 resistors+bjt+diode. Normally I'd arrange component groups in the same patten, then route one set and then copy traces to the other ones. Simple and quick. And in DipTrace? Sure, i can select traces and copy them, and even paste them, but pasted they end up in some random location and I can't move them, because any drag action is interpreted as an attempt to change traces shape. Argh!

This feature was discussed. In 2.3 we add copying routing/placement for hierarchical blocks (already done).

I'd need this very badly for my project. Is there already an ETA?

Today 2.2.9 beta was published, and this is available via the menu item Route/Hierarchy

[sonic]

I'd also vote for more hotkeys

Me too, I'd like one for Zoom Extents.

[48X24X48X]

Just tested the new beta version. Awesome!

The online DRC really brings me back to the Altium days!

[reagle]

Yay, beta is out? (Runs off t grab it)

[poorchava]

w00t?! I thought I've ordered the newsletter, but apparently I did not.

[goes to novarm website]

[reagle]

Exactly- i am subscribed but got nuthing!

[48X24X48X]

I subscribed to the Yahoo group. I would received them nearly everyday (if there's topics) at the same time.

[poorchava]

Turns out that when you subscribe to email newsletter you have to confirm it by clicking on a link that comes in an email. I didn't read up that part and my mailbox has filtered out that confirmation email as spam. LOL

[poorchava]

I gave a quick glance at the beta and I like the DRC very much.

On the other hand I've noticed some lacking stuff:
-it would be tremendously useful to be able to define 'special rules' for parts or if not that - then be able to suppress DRC warnings for one part on even one by one. I'm designing a board which has a SIP-every-other-lead-in-front package mounted on the edge of pcb. Of course this involves pads protruding all the way to the pcb edge. And of course each pad causes a DRC error. I'd really like to get rid of that.

-thermal vias on pads for thermally enchances packages cause drc error via-to-pad clearance. They should not as long as they are a part of the same footprint (i think)

-possibility to define silkscreen clearance would be nice (eg. when silkscreen is screenprinted -as opposed to photolitography - it can spill out to the sides a little bit. Extra clearance is required)

-Diptrace PCB editor doesn't get along with Mach 3 cnc drive software. If Mach is running, PCB editor crashes instantly after run. In other order, Mach won't run. I suspect graphics incompatibility issue.

[reagle]

Turns out that when you subscribe to email newsletter you have to confirm it by clicking on a link that comes in an email. I didn't read up that part and my mailbox has filtered out that confirmation email as spam. LOL

I actually went and checked- I did that once in January and got a confirmation form them. Still got no news when they posted beta!

[shebu18]

I get irritated by the fact that in the beta they disabled the net hidding for the cooper pour net. It is much harder to work now. I hope they bring the  final version quickly to the market, or they could make a patch for the beta. Once saved in beta i can not open it in the last official version....

Sent from my GT-I5800 using Tapatalk

[poorchava]

Found another lacking feature: if multiple symbols in component library share the same footprint ('pattern'), it would be nice to be able to update them all at once.

Case study:
when designing a component library I tend to have separate symbols for every resistor/capacitor/inductor value. This is because BOMs are easier to manage when shoping for a project. I've been doing that ever since I began with pcb design. After first revision of pcb I?ve decided, that I?d like to add some stuff. At first I've used low density footprints but decided to go for medium density which doesn't make it any harder to solder by hand while allowing easier placement. I've changed footprints for smd caps, resistors and inductors, went to component library editor, and I'm looking for 'update all from libraries' option. There isn't one (and diptrace forums seem to confirm that). Now i have to edit like 90 symbols by hand. DAMN....