MATRIX PowerWatch - TEG powered smart watch

[ludzinc]

... but I take it you're in New Zealand?

You bastards fight dirty.

Accusing an Australian of coming from Kiwi Land is almost as bad as knocking off your mates last stubbie  from his esky.

[Fred27]

Best comment so far, ludzinc. :-)

[matrixindustries]

I agree, best comment. LOL! ludzinc: If you're ever in silicon valley, hit us up, stubbies from my esky on me. In my defense, it's hard to see that extra star below the Union Jack.

Ok Carl_Smith has inspired me to upload some photos. They are a sampling of just a few of our prototypes over the years. I will upload them in chronological order.

[matrixindustries]

This is our very first prototype. The second hand starts to move when worn. It does not have a battery/supercap. We bought the heat exchanger from eBay. It's a laptop heat sink. Not very practical, but very fun to build!

[PA0PBZ]

In my defense, it's hard to see that extra star below the Union Jack.

Point your mouse at the flag and the miracle happens.

[matrixindustries]

Australia! Need to run, will be back soon to post more.

[matrixindustries]

Here is another one. Do you guys know what heat pipes are?

[matrixindustries]

This is an ugly looking bracelet, but starting to have more "smarts". A LCD display and the Ambiq Apollo MCU.

[matrixindustries]

Now we started to get more serious. Built an actual watch form factor with our TEGs inside. We then interfaced it to a Microview (Arduino based) controller. The box also has a DC-DC boost, coulomb counting, and a SD card to store raw data, i.e. voltage, current, and power. We looked like cyborgs with the watch, box, and wires strapped to our arms while field testing.

[matrixindustries]

In the final prototype, we packed all that stuff inside the watch and go about our day without looking weird. At the end of the day, we would download raw current, voltage, and power data to an app we built. The picture shows the watch transmitting its data to the phone.

[DmitryL]

'scuse me... How exactly have you managed to pack that huge heatsink and long heat pipes into this small case on the last photo ?

[firewalker]

What happens when the arm is colder that the air? Is there any reverse polarity protection?

Alexander.

[matrixindustries]

DC-DC boosts can be both unipolar or bipolar.

[JimRemington]

Do you guys know what heat pipes are?

Most of us do, and most of us are also well aware that common heat pipes don't begin to work efficiently until the temperature is well above the temperature of human skin, i.e. above the triple point of the working fluid.

Which particular technology are you using?

[EEVblog]

@ Matrixindustries
Why are you still refusing to comment on my calculations about the practicality of your product?
No one here doubts your product "works", but what is the point of having a TEG charged battery if it takes that battery 1000+ hours of exercise to charge it? How is it not a gimmick?

[matrixindustries]

Jim Remington, the fluid inside of that heat pipe in the picture is just water. Triple point of water is 0.01C and 6.1 mBar. Water is commonly used in applications where the temperature is between 20C and 100C.

[matrixindustries]

Dave, I’m not refusing, just giving it a lot of thought. You’re obviously a brilliant guy and I don’t want to get into a pissing match with you.

It’s hard to answer this question because how do I encapsulate the last five years of our lives, actually 13 years in my case, in a neat, tidied up answer to a complete stranger? Would a one sentence answer finally settle it? You’ve obviously already read the Engadget article, since you posted it earlier, that had the title, “The PowerWatch is a body heat-powered smartwatch that does very little.” This is our first generation smartwatch and we’re still learning how to improve it. Some people like it, and of course some don’t.

The PowerWatch generates more power than it consumes when it’s worn. But what happens when it’s taken off and left off for a long time? What do you do when you have enough room to add a 200 mAh battery? Do you choose a tiny supercap instead that barely supports the BLE TX, RX, syncing? 

Also we chose to come out of stealth with a commercial product, but in the big picture, we see this tech going into smart sensors for factories and industry, smart logistics, perhaps medical devices like hearing aids. Longer term, this technology, we hope, will help increase fuel efficiency for power plants or automobiles, which we hope would be good for the environment.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that we’re very passionate about thermoelectrics. The most inspiring photo ever captured in my opinion is “The Pale Blue Dot”, when Voyager 1 turned around and took a picture of Earth. Carl Sagan has a beautiful description of it. Voyager 1 is of course powered by a thermoelectric.

[timb]

Dave, I’m not refusing, just giving it a lot of thought. You’re obviously a brilliant guy and I don’t want to get into a pissing match with you.

It’s hard to answer this question because how do I encapsulate the last five years of our lives, actually 13 years in my case, in a neat, tidied up answer to a complete stranger? Would a one sentence answer finally settle it?

It doesn't have to be one sentence. You can explain in painstakingly intricate detail if you like.

Or, you could *post some data* to back up your claims! Just throw a zip file of your raw data up and provide a link, we'd be happy to format and process it even. Just provide us with something, anything!

There should be zero reason you can't do that. (Unless you're scared it won't hold up to scrutiny?)

I guess what I’m trying to say is that we’re very passionate about thermoelectrics. The most inspiring photo ever captured in my opinion is “The Pale Blue Dot”, when Voyager 1 turned around and took a picture of Earth. Carl Sagan has a beautiful description of it. Voyager 1 is of course powered by a thermoelectric.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -Carl Sagan

[EEVblog]

Dave, I’m not refusing, just giving it a lot of thought. You’re obviously a brilliant guy and I don’t want to get into a pissing match with you.

There need be no pissing match, simply post some data.

It’s hard to answer this question because how do I encapsulate the last five years of our lives, actually 13 years in my case, in a neat, tidied up answer to a complete stranger?

What's that got to do with anything?
You are taking people's money and selling a product. That product is either useful or it isn't. It's either practical or it's not.
Based on the numbers I don't see your product being either of those things, and you have provided no data or clarification otherwise, just this "we've been working so hard at it, it's our life and passion" speech.
You are not selling that story and asking for donations to fulfill your dreams, you are selling a product that is being marketed in a certain way that makes people think it's useful, when clearly the calculations show it's not.

The PowerWatch generates more power than it consumes when it’s worn.

I have absolutely no doubt that it does.
What you are not seeing here is that concept is entirely pointless apart from being cool gimmick.
You could have put a CR2032 coin cell battery in there and gotten the same "never have to change the battery" claim. You can buy 10 year lifetime battery watches from Casio and others.

But what happens when it’s taken off and left off for a long time? What do you do when you have enough room to add a 200 mAh battery? Do you choose a tiny supercap instead that barely supports the BLE TX, RX, syncing? 

Ok, let's look at the bluetooth syncing.
Give us the numbers on how much power is generated per day vs how much energy is required to bluetooth sync once a day.

Also we chose to come out of stealth with a commercial product, but in the big picture, we see this tech going into smart sensors for factories and industry, smart logistics, perhaps medical devices like hearing aids. Longer term, this technology, we hope, will help increase fuel efficiency for power plants or automobiles, which we hope would be good for the environment.

That's great, but has absolutely nothing to do with the practicality of the product you are taking people's money for.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that we’re very passionate about thermoelectrics. The most inspiring photo ever captured in my opinion is “The Pale Blue Dot”, when Voyager 1 turned around and took a picture of Earth. Carl Sagan has a beautiful description of it. Voyager 1 is of course powered by a thermoelectric.

Again, lovely rhetoric in place of data.

[EEVblog]

@Matrix
And you haven't answered my questions about autonomic nervous system effect on the caloric measurement, or who I'm actually speaking to here.
It's clear you aren't going to provide any data either, so I'll just run with the data I have, I have more than enough to make an interesting video. Off to the whiteboard, see you on the other side.

[Mr.B]

Bookmark   

[matrixindustries]

No point in sharing our data, which I've offered to you in private. Your calculations are spot on. We look forward to your video!

[Cerebus]

What happens when the arm is colder that the air? Is there any reverse polarity protection?

Alexander.

Most of the time that's not going to be an issue because if your arm is colder than the air the issue is going to be protection from the 330J pulses the paramedics will be slamming through your body. 

[EEVblog]

No point in sharing our data, which I've offered to you in private.

Why won't you share your data publicly?
What can I do with private data apart from keep it private?

Your calculations are spot on.

Thanks for confirming your TEG powered watch is nothing but a gimmick.

[Carl_Smith]

No point in sharing our data,

Uhhhmmmmm,   WHAT?  The point in sharing your data is that we are trying to give you an opportunity to prove that your device works as you claim and has some practical value.  And yet you keep failing to take this opportunity.

...which I've offered to you in private.

This is a public message board, owned and operated by Dave, who is a public figure with a public YouTube channel.   Private is not an option.   

A lot of people immediately think that crowdfunded projects with extraordinary claims are all scams to separate people from their money and run.  When I first happened across this thread I was willing to give some benefit of the doubt and I figured there was a possibility it wasn't a scam, just a lot of wishful thinking that wasn't really all that practical.   But after days of Matrix refusing to post data, requesting privacy with revealing data to Dave, and just sidestepping inconvenient questions, I'm starting to lean toward believing this product is just another attempt at cashing in a quick buck on a product the makers know has no real value.

The only reason to request privacy is that you know there is something in that data that would negatively affect the perception of the value of your product and cost you sales.