Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?

[FrankenPC]

I just found a bunch more.  The ones I have are from 4/19/13 to current.  A few months of data that have been erased.


Let's see... So, IndieGoGo seems to have erased everything past 9 months.  That means I have about 5 or 6 missing posts.

This one's from 4/29/13:

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Hello Everyone,

This weekend was a bit tough, we’ve had a setback with our WiFi chipset provider, we’ve been unable to get the adhoc WiFi working well with the multiple phones we’ve been testing it on.

We’ve now gone back to work with a provider that we originally looked at but that required a host chipset to work off of. They have just released a chipset that now meets all of our requirements (and does not require a host) and after a weekend of evaluation and consideration we’ve decided to make the change. Quality and reliability have to take precedence over most everything else.

What does this do to our schedule? Well…regretfully, we’re not going to make the hardware show, though we’ve contacted the people we were most interested in meeting with and they’ve agreed to private meetings later in the month.

As to our delivery to our IndieGoGo supporters, it means a delay. At this point, it’s too early to say when we’ll begin shipping but hopefully it won’t be much of a delay, please give me a week or so to determine what the delay will be. This disappoints us more than you can know and we know it’s a disappointment to all of you. You’re continued patience is appreciated and if you would like a refund due to the delay, let me know.

Next week we’ll show you the software, using the visible light portion of our product (we can’t show thermal images in it until we get the WiFi working well). This will include a run through of the operations of the camera, the database behind it and how you’ll work with it.

Thank you all.

John McGrath

[FrankenPC]

I skipped several posts complaining about Vimeo video publishing problems...

This one is from 5/13/13:

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Part 1 of 2

Hello All,

We mentioned in a post two weeks ago that we would not make our original shipping date. I’d like explain why in a little more depth.

First, we had to switch the image array in the beginning and that was a major setback. Quality and promised ability to deliver in quantity were the issues with original vendor. Finding a suitable replacement took some time. The imager we’re using now is of the highest quality and has been in the market for some time.

Then we had to switch WiFi vendors and that was also a significant setback. Those are the two most important parts of the package and when they work well together the whole device comes together very quickly.

The WiFi problems can be explained as what it is, a brand new chipset from a manufacturer we originally looked at but did not have the correct specs for us at the time, and now they do, and getting it into the camera has been a chore due to it being a brand new chipset with new documentation. We have been on the phone early in the mornings with the WiFi engineers on the other side of the globe. WiFi working well allows us to more quickly show the IR image on the camera and debug. I can tell you that we’re working every weekday and weekend in order to complete the project.

The USB decision has not been made yet, mainly because we continue to investigate ways to do it properly for all external devices and….if we announce today that we’re not going to do it, the people who ask for refunds will be disapointed when we very soon after decide that, HEY…there is a simple way to do it. So….that decision waits for the WiFi to work well.

This week we’re talking with multiple assemblers about how quickly they can ramp up production once the PCB is finalized, which is not long after these WiFi problems are settled.

As to when we think we’ll be delivering the final product….Another few weeks should give us the ability to solidify that date. No one wants this out in the market quickly more than we do.

All thirty people who have asked for refunds have received them. Most in a very timely manner. For everyone that has asked for a refund, there have been ten asking to take their place. Enthusiasm continues to run high for the product among many markets. If you are concerned about the delays but still want a camera, hang in there, we will be getting the device to market as soon as is possible.

[FrankenPC]

Part 2 of 2 from 5/13/13:

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Part 2 of 2 (we really wish the limit wasn’t 2500 characters)

WiFi, lens, shutter, array, and the PCB are all so closely tied that the case, though nearly ready for manufacturing, remains on the drawing board until the PCB is finalized. Designing and having PCBs made takes days, not weeks. Our Engineer is very quick and adept at making changing to the PCB design. Machining a final case prototype takes days, not weeks. The engineer in charge of that is also quick and responsive.

Our failure to meet our original delivery date is more due to my optimism than anything else. I apologize for that; to both all of our contributors, and to the engineers and designers here at Mµ Optics.

I remain reluctant to show the interior of our camera and I’m sorry, but that reluctance will remain until we are much closer to a shipping date. I have however, asked Charles to look into releasing a partial parts list that doesn’t give any trade secrets away, and have asked for permission to do so from the vendors we have NDAs in place with.

I have also been in touch with IndieGoGo, explained the state of our campaign, and offered them a video tour of our efforts and a general conversation should they desire it. Thus far, they have not asked for further explanation. Please keep in mind that PayPal continues to hold back a considerable amount of money until such time as we can show them that all the processes and parts and orders, and POs, etc. are in place to begin delivering the product.

We are busy with the effort at hand. We are still being advised to keep as much of the internal project private until we enter large scale manufacturing. We would love to show pictures, but it is simply too easy to reverse engineer the product. Though I will try and be more communicative in the future, I will do my best between respecting our company’s efforts to succeed, and the contributors’ right to know what’s going on. Showing a wirelessly transmitted IR image on the App as soon as possible remains our number one priority. Again, it’s number one.

Thanks to all who continue to support us.

As a new friend from our website said recently,

“John:
I have been to your website…..the mobile infrared camera is a must. We just had 3 inches of water in our basement…this would have been perfect….hang in there.”

Cheers,
-John McGrath and MuOptics.

[FrankenPC]

5/20/13....

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Hello All,

I thought I’d share with you a few pieces of hardware and manufacturing news.

On the hardware end, I’m happy to be able to say that we’ve settled on a microcontroller from Atmel, the Sam3x. This 84MHz MCU is the brains of the imager, it drives the image sensor and the communications equipment. We’ve been using this chip since early in the development cycle and trust it to be able to give great performance in the camera.
We also have a wireless chipset from RedPine Signals that enables realtime wireless video from the  imager to your smartphone or computer. It’s been very fun adding wireless and we think that we have a few more tweaks we can implement to get some added functionality out of it.

We’re narrowing down our assembly options(there have been a lot of potential manufacturers) and for our electronics and pcb manufacturing, our current top contenders are “Advanced Circuits” and “American Standard Circuits”. Both great companies.

As we work to get the case and body of the imager finalized, we have come up with a few slight modifications to the body that we are currently considering. If those ideas go anywhere, I’ll try to post pictures of the possible changes down the road.

As always, Thanks for all of your support. We can’t wait to get the first imagers into your hands and see what uses you come up with. (I personally really want to see someone mount one to a quadcopter drone).

Cheers,
-Charles and the MuOptics Team.

[FrankenPC]

5/31/13.....

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Hello All,

Sorry for the long silence. It’s been an incredibly busy week. New PCBs, new cases, new equipment. We will be sending out a new prototype run early next week if everything goes to plan, and then we will be assembling what should basically be the final product.

On another note, we’ve been getting hundreds of emails through our website from people wanting to pre-order cameras. So we’ve launched a new website with a pre-order form. The pre-order will be first come first serve, and anyone that is interested in getting the camera can reserve a spot in the queue. Our first production run will go to all of our IndieGoGo backers, and to a few large companies that have expressed interest in purchasing large volumes so that they can do an evaluation period. After that, as cameras become available, they will go to anyone that pre-ordered. Pre-ordering requires no payment, and does not represent an obligation to purchase a camera. So if you know someone who is interested in getting a camera. Send them to muoptics.com.

Cheers!

[FrankenPC]

6/13/13.....

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Hello All,

Sorry for the delayed update again, it’s been a very busy week here. We received new case models, and have been discussing slight changes now that we’ve actually been able to hold the new models with the new materials. We’re looking at ways to cut down the size a little and make it as comfortable to hold as possible. We are aiming to make it feel like you’re holding a point-and-shoot digital camera. We ordered a new reflow soldering oven for our new proto-boards, but unfortunately that oven was apparently damaged in shipping, so they’re sending us a new one which I hope will be here in the next few days. This board should hopefully be the last one that we use to tweak the system, and then we will be able to retool for the new case. These next few weeks are really looking like the end run for design. (At least that’s our hope, if everything comes together).

[FrankenPC]

This is the oldest one  currently on IndieGoGo.  6/17/13.....

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Hello All,

I thought that I’d go through and answer a few technical questions that have recently been asked.

Sensor -
We are using a 160×120 Microbolometer for infrared sensing. I’m sure most of you know what these sensors are, but here is the down and dirty wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbolometer

Video Stream -
The data stream going from the camera to the host device is entirely raw data. That data is processed into video in the Mu App. By doing all of the processing in the app, we can push updates related to video without requiring hardware firmware updates.

Firmware -
That being said, the cameras will be firmware upgradable. JTAG, USB, and possibly OTA updates will be possible, however we will likely only support USB with the firmware that ships on the cameras. We will later release new firmwares that will enable the other update methods.

Open Source -
Although we haven’t settled on how much of the software and the project will be open sourced, we do want to enable the community to make interesting hacks and to expand the software to smaller or more niche platforms.

Cheers!
MuOptics

[sleemanj]

Waybackmachine has captured a couple which would have been from mid-early April 2013 (vor x Tage means x Days ago, and the WBM captured it May 2nd )
http://web.archive.org/web/20130502173414/http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mu-thermal-camera-a-great-tool-to-save-on-energy-costs?c=activity

[CanadianAvenger]

yeah it looks like IGG or Mu removed the history before that point. I probably have a bunch more in mt email, but I'd still be missing the first few, as I contributed fairly late.

If anyone has the original updates then it would be wise to post them here for the record. This whole being able to delete updates thing is just horrible. It's the only thing these poor backers have as a record of anything.

Even more troubling is their ability to edit and change the main page. I'm fairly certain some detail and wording has changed since the close of the campaign. I swear everything about IGG seems to be centered around giving the scammers all the tools necessary to pull off a scam, with little hope of anyone gathering any evidence.

[echen1024]

I absolutely love how they say NOTHING about the microbolometer status in ANY of there posts.

[mrflibble]

I absolutely love how they say NOTHING about the microbolometer status in ANY of there posts.

Who says it's a microbolometer? It's an exciting new sensor that they are very excited about!




also, hamsters

[codeboy2k]

Sounds exciting! I'm stoked

[PlainName]

Filling in some holes:

First from 1st April, 2013:

Hello everyone,
We wanted to thank you for your contributions and continued support in our effort to get a great product out to you as soon as possible! Attached is a personal message from John.
(Apologies for the time it took to get this video to you. There have been hiccups with our Vimeo Plus account. For some reason or another Vimeo has not been processing our videos in a timely manner!)

[PlainName]

8th April, 2013:

Thanks to all of you for your comments. I fully understand the concerns you’ve voiced; I can say is that product development progresses, we are adapting and adjusting the technology daily, a working camera will be unveiled in early May, and you will see working videos of our camera well in advance of that. We’ve now chosen not to post work-in-progress videos until such time as we’re showing thermal images on the iPhone, which is coming soon.

That said, let me share a significant change in the operational aspect of the camera. We’re replacing the USB connection (other than to charge the battery) with a Wi-Fi connection. This is a major advance in operational practicality and convenience. The camera will be far easier to use without the encumbrance of a tethering cord.

Our expertise lies in technical product development, not in marketing communications. Please bear with us and be patient; this highly useful tool is mere weeks from its unveiling.

[PlainName]

9th April, 2013:

Page 1 of 2:
Hello All,
I see that our update regarding WiFi has raised some concern. Please let me address that and talk a little about how we are going to implement that functionality.
Firstly, I’d like to assuage any fears that we are only now working on WiFi. We have been developing that feature for some time now, and it has been working great. We believe wireless connectivity is a huge step up from USB. The software team has video coming in over the air and it is working flawlessly. When we started this project we were a little concerned about the power usage over WiFi, but as it turns out it really isn’t bad at all. Getting video in over the wireless connection and processing it is only taking up a small amount of CPU usage on the iPhones that we have been developing with.(I’ll see about compiling some stats and averages soon)
As for how WiFi will work: The Imager acts as a wireless access point, so you won’t need to be near your home WiFi or any other hot spot. So the imager can be used anywhere without difficulty. You’ll simply connect to your camera’s individual network and you have video. This process will be slightly different depending on the device you are using to connect to your camera, but our software will be released with clear instructions built in. This type of adhoc networking is what we believe will work best for everyone. WiFi Direct would have been great, but that standard hasn’t been adopted by a vast majority of device manufacturers yet so we decided to go with adhoc instead, as any device with WiFi will work with that methodology.

Page 2 of 2:
We agree, Bluetooth would be great, but at 19,200 pixels, coming in 30 times each second, we found that it just wouldn’t cut it in the vast majority of cases.
For those of you who still prefer USB, we haven’t completely cut it out. We are still using USB to charge the camera’s on-board battery, we wanted to see how many people prefer the hard connection over WiFi because we can still include the circuitry for the wired connection if there is great demand for that. Otherwise we will remove it and only leave the power management components in place. So if you really want the USB connection, give us a friendly “+1USB” in the comments.
Let’s see, what else is there?
FCC certification; because of the WiFi chip we selected, that’ll take less than two weeks once we’ve gotten our final Printed Circuit Boards in.
Final PCBs; Thermal imaging is tricky, and we want to get it right for every camera we build, so we keep testing and redesigning and perfecting, I think that we’re nearly there though.
We have a great team of developers and engineers here, and we are still confident in our expected delivery schedule. Not to say that there isn’t the potential for set backs between now and the end of May, but we haven’t had any reason to think we won’t make our expected goals.
I wish that we could share more with you, but we have to be very careful about what data we put out in the world before we hit scaled up production. Thank you all for your patience. We very much appreciate your support and your help.
Cheers,
Charles

[PlainName]

9th April, 2013 (again!)

Hello all, thanks for all the continuing support and the input on the USB question! It remains an open question and we’re listening. I wanted to post our MFi License for those that had questions about whether we had one. We applied for one pretty much at the same time the idea came up. Enjoy the day!

[PlainName]

16th April, 2013:

Our thoughts and prayers are with those in Boston.

[PlainName]

17th April, 2013:

Part 1 of 2
Hello all,
I’ll address a few things in this email and hopefully have another update again before the end of the week.
We’ve been watching the comments for +1USB, and so far we’ve counted just over 150 comments on that subject (out of 1920 contributors), with 72% asking for USB support, 21% for both, 6% for WiFi only, and 1% doesn’t care (just get it done).
We like WiFi for it’s nearly universal support and lack of cables; and it’s very cool taking the camera into places without the phone, but we certainly do understand that a physical line is sometimes best, and it looks like many of you have uses in mind where that is the case, some of which are very, very interesting. When we made the decision to switch to Wifi it removed a few headaches related to USB support across multiple platforms. We have a few meetings later this week to discuss this and what our final approach (approaches?) will be. For those of you who need USB we really are paying attention, because you were all early supporters we want to have a workable solution for each of you. (I really wish that Bluetooth was a viable option. Oh well, we work with what we can right?).

Part 2 of 2
There is some talk in the comments about us not being on the roster for the Hardware show. This is true, we pulled off of the show floor because we realized that it would be more economical for us to meet with the big buyers privately rather than show the imager on the convention floor. We’re associated with people who can get the right people into the suite with us and they believe the booth to be more of distraction than anything else. So…we’re still aimed at showing the camera there. We also did this for competitive and confidendiatilty reasons.
Let me take a minute to talk in general terms about development status. We started this project knowing that thermography could be such a useful tool for so many more people than currently use it. And so we knew that an affordable thermal camera would be huge. We set off doing our research, noting where the big expenses were, and coming up with dozens of different ideas. Some of these ideas were genuinely very clever, although most ultimately didn’t pan out. In the end, we have a great plan and we’re nearing the finish line to a great camera. We’ve mentioned that we’ve experimented with a few different detectors. Well, we’re very happy with the one we’ve settled with. Abe is in the other room right now tweaking bias voltages and the like to get the best picture possible in the field. Turns out it’s just as hard to make the picture look great as it is just to get a picture in the first place. We’ve got a new case about to be machined (hopefully with proper and final mounts and clips). The next PCB we order should pretty much be the one that goes into the first cameras we ship…baring any big changes. I’m off to poke around the Internet for a new battery because I’m just not satisfied with the pack that we’ve been working with so far. I imagine that you all would be happy with as many milliamp hours as you can get, right?
Late in the month of May still seems good. The longest lead-time we have on any part is a few weeks and suppliers are at the ready.
We’re making steady progress, a video is coming very soon. We’re working late into the evenings and weekends. You’ll be very happy with what you see.
Cheers

[PlainName]

I think that's all from the start to where FrankenPC picks up eariler in this thread (with 22 April, 2013 post). I think I've got the lot from then to current, but no pics or videos or anything.

[EEVblog]

8th April, 2013:

Thanks to all of you for your comments. I fully understand the concerns you’ve voiced; I can say is that product development progresses, we are adapting and adjusting the technology daily, a working camera will be unveiled in early May, and you will see working videos of our camera well in advance of that. We’ve now chosen not to post work-in-progress videos until such time as we’re showing thermal images on the iPhone, which is coming soon.

That said, let me share a significant change in the operational aspect of the camera. We’re replacing the USB connection (other than to charge the battery) with a Wi-Fi connection. This is a major advance in operational practicality and convenience. The camera will be far easier to use without the encumbrance of a tethering cord.

Our expertise lies in technical product development, not in marketing communications. Please bear with us and be patient; this highly useful tool is mere weeks from its unveiling.

Wow, almost a full year ago 
 

[FrankenPC]

8th April, 2013:

Thanks to all of you for your comments. I fully understand the concerns you’ve voiced; I can say is that product development progresses, we are adapting and adjusting the technology daily, a working camera will be unveiled in early May, and you will see working videos of our camera well in advance of that. We’ve now chosen not to post work-in-progress videos until such time as we’re showing thermal images on the iPhone, which is coming soon.

That said, let me share a significant change in the operational aspect of the camera. We’re replacing the USB connection (other than to charge the battery) with a Wi-Fi connection. This is a major advance in operational practicality and convenience. The camera will be far easier to use without the encumbrance of a tethering cord.

Our expertise lies in technical product development, not in marketing communications. Please bear with us and be patient; this highly useful tool is mere weeks from its unveiling.

Wow, almost a full year ago 
 

Again, the question that keeps nagging me...why do they keep playing this game?  Why the updates?  Why not just call it quits?

[BravoV]

I still remember one of the first updates "Thanks to everyone contributing, I cant wait to drive my new tesla electric car" -John McGrath  And yes, it actually said something like that.  I'm really surprised that was removed, wonder why? 

Again, the question that keeps nagging me...why do they keep playing this game?  Why the updates?  Why not just call it quits?

If they're really calling it quits at last, just an idea, at least its better than nothing at all, demand John McGrath to do a tear-down on his new toy bought from Tesla Motors. 

[chris0822]

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but it looks like Mµ has been beaten by yet another similar product:

http://therm-app.com/

I don't see any pricing, but decent resolution (384x288)

[mikeselectricstuff]

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but it looks like Mµ has been beaten by yet another similar product:

http://therm-app.com/

I don't see any pricing, but decent resolution (384x288)

Doubt this will be anywhere near mu's price target - my guess would be at least the price of an E4

[echen1024]

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but it looks like Mµ has been beaten by yet another similar product:

http://therm-app.com/

I don't see any pricing, but decent resolution (384x288)

At least they have actual technical specifications...