Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?

[Keef Wivanef]

SQUAT?

Dunno bout that but the whole thing certainly gives me the shits! :

[mikeselectricstuff]

They have just released a chipset that now meets all of our requirements (and does not require a host) and after a weekend of evaluation and consideration we’ve decided to make the change.

So how long on average is it before you can actually get production parts of a "Just released" device?

The thing that makes me the most suspicious is that none of these "issues" have been to do with the core tech - the thermal imaging part. Maybe they've not even started on that bit yet....

I also wonder of they've maybe been the victim of an over-entheusiatic subcontractor who promised them a solution but then fell through & they're now in panic mode trying to cover up...

[AndyC_772]

Depends on your relationship with the supplier, and how interested they are in your product... I wouldn't rule the product out for this reason.

The reason I'd rule it out is that compatibility problems with a range of phones don't stop anyone from showing the product with a phone that it does happen to work with - and the fact that they're not able to do even this suggests that there are in fact *no* phones on which this device can show a thermal image.

If they said it only works on a particular model of phone, people could simply buy that phone.

[firewalker]

You’re continued patience is appreciated and if you would like a refund due to the delay, let me know.

Actually they don't say they will refund...

-I want a refund.
-Nop, you can't have it.



Alexander.

[Keef Wivanef]

They already spent the money......video production don't come cheap 

[EEVblog]

The reason I'd rule it out is that compatibility problems with a range of phones don't stop anyone from showing the product with a phone that it does happen to work with - and the fact that they're not able to do even this suggests that there are in fact *no* phones on which this device can show a thermal image.

I think it's worse. It appears as though there is no device at all.

[firewalker]

If I had the IR part and the problem was the Wi-Fi I would bodge wired it  somehow a would present it...

Alexander.

[Fraser]

QUACK! QUACK!  Dead Duck.

In their position I would have appeased the investors by showing what I already had built, even if it did not work yet. The technology used would not be compromised by such an act as selective masking of parts could be used. All very simple to do. They have nothing to show.

When the rush starts for refunds it will be like a run on a bank, only the first few will see any money back.

[Bored@Work]

When the rush starts for refunds it will be like a run on a bank, only the first few will see any money back.

And that rush will give them a good excuse. Something like "All the backers asking for a refund are killing the project. We don't have enough money any more to pay for production/prototype/parts because of the refunds. It is over, and it is your fault. We can't fully refund everyone, because we spent it on the project."

[Recyclojunk64]

Cheers for the link on Indiegogo, Dustout.

I should've known not to use the greek alphabet in the title though

They seem to be treating the project much like I treat my English assignments; pretend it's nearly done but refuse to let the teacher see what I've actually completed on it (i.e. nothing) until a few weeks past the original deadline. I think they will have theirs done a lot later than that, if it is ever completed

I wonder if they can get away with a frequency response of < 1130 nm. Should be perfect for brazing and welding applications 

[EEVblog]

And that rush will give them a good excuse. Something like "All the backers asking for a refund are killing the project. We don't have enough money any more to pay for production/prototype/parts because of the refunds. It is over, and it is your fault. We can't fully refund everyone, because we spent it on the project."

Yep, that's the exact "out" they will be counting on I bet.
I think it's now inevitable that everyone has lost their money on this one. 

[Keef Wivanef]

Mail fraud is still a crime.

"In the United States, mail and wire fraud is any fraudulent scheme to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire communication. It has been a federal crime in the United States since 1872."

Time to bring the law up to date and include internet in the definition."

 

[EEVblog]

Mail fraud is still a crime.
"In the United States, mail and wire fraud is any fraudulent scheme to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire communication. It has been a federal crime in the United States since 1872."

Therein lies the rub.

[Keef Wivanef]

Intentionally the old Catch 22!


http://metabunk.org/threads/1166-Debunked-V3Solar-s-spinning-solar-panel-cone-spin-cell-quot-CoolSpin-quot-scam
"Debunked: V3Solar's spinning solar panel cone spin cell "CoolSpin" - scam?
There's a type of scam out there that's being going on for at least 100 years. A company claims to have invented or discovered something that will make a lot of money. Quite often this will be in the field of energy, although we see them more and more in the field of weather control and information technology. The company can demonstrate research, they will often hold one or more patents on the technology, and they will have some kind of prototype that does not actually fully work, but they claim is a demonstration of the proof of concept. They won't reveal all the details, despite having filed patents, because they either don't want people to steal their ideas, or they claim it's too early, and more research needs to be done.

What they are looking for though, is investors. They will talk about the huge potential market, and hence the huge amount of money to be made. They will get people to invest in their company. The technology will go nowhere slowly, and eventually the principals will withdraw, and the investors will end up with nothing.

The scam works because it's not illegal to be wrong, unless you actually know you are wrong. So if you think you've discovered a form of free energy, it's perfectly legal to set up a company to research and develop the technology. It's quite legal to solicit investment based on what you think is correct science - even if it does turn out to be wrong, and the investors lose all their money. They took a risk, they lost. It's quite legal to pay yourself and the other principals a large salary.

So all you have to do to run such a scam is to never admit you knew it was a scam. You have to pretend you believe in the technology. Then when it fails you simply keep insisting that you thought it worked, and you were sorry you didn't get enough time to work out the kinks.

Then of course there are those people who actually ARE convinced that their technology works. There are plenty of people who think they actually have discovered something new, and they just need a bit more research to make money from it. "

Nicely put dude!
 

[chickenHeadKnob]

Mail fraud is still a crime.

"In the United States, mail and wire fraud is any fraudulent scheme to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire communication. It has been a federal crime in the United States since 1872."

Time to bring the law up to date and include internet in the definition."

 

If you think fraud on the internets is bad or somehow a "new bad" you haven't learned from the old master fraudsters like Lemelson who earned a billion+ from submarine patents or Paul Moller of Moller skycar fame. Those guys make the young punks look like rank amateurs.

Consider that I am in my 50's now and was a young lad when moller's ever-changing skyturd was first featured on popular science/mechanics. There was mail fraud back then, and no public internet, yet these pro's figured out ways around any existing laws and exploited near perpetual legal scams.

[Keef Wivanef]

Those guys make the young punks look like rank amateurs.

Even a rank amateur can now be a successful scammer thanks to the internet and crowdfunding

This Moo Thermal plop is a prime example.

Should we just shrug our shoulders and let them carry on?
 

[chickenHeadKnob]

Those guys make the young punks look like rank amateurs.

Even a rank amateur can now be a successful scammer thanks to the internet and crowdfunding

This Moo Thermal plop is a prime example.

Should we just shrug our shoulders and let them carry on?
 

No, I wasn't suggesting that, just that the whole legal edifice is so inefficient and slow compared to what the social web can do better/faster in limiting the 'take' these guys get. I think it might be  harder to pull off crowdfunding type scams compared to ye old fashioned ones if high google rank sites appear with warnings. Have you followed the SCO sues the linux world attempt? Groklaw  really killed the $600 dollar extortion-license business dead right quick and Darl Mcbride started wailing "unfair .. unfair" but the sco suits against Novell/IBM went on forever in the official legal track.  There were Groklaw'ers  begging to be charged for a license for something that SCO didn't own. That would have been mail fraud.

I probably hate the scam artists as much as anyone, I don't want to see them win.

[EEVblog]

Should we just shrug our shoulders and let them carry on?

What do you suggest we do?
Considering your only contribution to this forum has been this thread, you should be full of lots of good ideas?
I had the idea maybe 9 months back that I would set up a crowd funding "technical review" type blog/videoblog, but I didn't see any form of "long tail" view potential in it.
Perhaps you'd like to start one?

[BravoV]

I had the idea maybe 9 months back that I would set up a crowd funding "technical review" type blog/videoblog, but I didn't see any form of "long tail" view potential in it.

Actually this is a very good idea Dave, why not do a short "walk time" video dedicated to rant bring out about this matter, and see how the audience respond to this idea of setting a independent review board, I believe there are many forum members here that are qualified imo to do such review or at least make a sounding.

Anyway, you haven't done this walk/drive time video for quite some time now.

[EEVblog]

Actually this is a very good idea Dave, why not do a short "walk time" video dedicated to rant bring out about this matter, and see how the audience respond to this idea of setting a independent review board, I believe there are many forum members here that are qualified imo to do such review or at least make a sounding.

If there is another interest I could set up a dedicated part of the forum to discuss crowd funded projects. 

[BravoV]

If there is another interest I could set up a dedicated part of the forum to discuss crowd funded projects. 

That is a good start, though I believed this new special dedicated part of the forum should be promoted 1st thru your video to gain more attentions from the internet crowd rather than depends on forum members to increase it's traffic.

This place itself with so many qualified and publicly known members is a good place to start this so called independent review committee/board.

[cwalex]

Actually this is a very good idea Dave, why not do a short "walk time" video dedicated to rant bring out about this matter, and see how the audience respond to this idea of setting a independent review board, I believe there are many forum members here that are qualified imo to do such review or at least make a sounding.

If there is another interest I could set up a dedicated part of the forum to discuss crowd funded projects. 

+1 for the "walk time" video/rant 

[MacAttak]

I wonder if it would be advantageous to structure such reviews around a by-request-only model. Independent 3rd party review and critique (by qualified and competent technical reviewers) is a service that could provide a LOT of value to the crowd-funding world.

If it were respected and popular then smart project owners would seek out a review, and use it as a way to jump-start their own marketing. Nothing is better marketing than having an outside party find a defect in your product, and then you respond and fix it publicly.

[BravoV]

I wonder if it would be advantageous to structure such reviews around a by-request-only model. Independent 3rd party review and critique (by qualified and competent technical reviewers) is a service that could provide a LOT of value to the crowd-funding world.

If it were respected and popular then smart project owners would seek out a review, and use it as a way to jump-start their own marketing. Nothing is better marketing than having an outside party find a defect in your product, and then you respond and fix it publicly.

+1, and looking at the current situations, its just the matter of time that organized crime will starting to jump in, since it is ridiculously easy to score quite some money, don't you think ? 

[Bored@Work]

Even a rank amateur can now be a successful scammer thanks to the internet and crowdfunding

Crowdfunding is just a new angle. It was eBay who provided the largest training ground for future scammers. A whole generation of scammers had time to try every tricke in the book, even invent a few ones, and hon basic scammer skills unmolested on eBay.