30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery

[jaxbird]

Just had a look at the latest comments on this project.

Now it's promised that the options including charger ($25+) will include a power supply comparable to this:


http://www.trcelectronics.com/View/Mean-Well/SE-1000-5.shtml
(link from his kickstarter comment)

That is a $180, 150A PSU!

And the original pictured charger setup:



Was not meant to in any way represent the circuit of the final product.

Unless he is planning to take a $100+ hit on each item sold, I don't see how this is possible.

If he can manufacture and sell a 750W PSU for less than $25, he could just be selling those. Same can be said for his super capacitors. No need to bother with packaging them as batteries.

[sunnyhighway]

http://www.trcelectronics.com/View/Mean-Well/SE-1000-5.shtml
(link from his kickstarter comment)

That is a $180, 150A PSU!

Lets say he get's these PSU's for free.
Lets even say he makes nice casings from scrap plywood he found on the curb or dump.

Now he has to ship this stuff to the backers:

PSU: 2.5 kg
Plywood: 0.75 kg
Mains cable & battery terminals 0.3 kg
AA battery: 0.022 kg
Flimsy shipping box, no padding: 0.25 kg

Total weight: 3,822 kg

I don't know what the shipping costs would be for this, but I guess there won't be much money left for the batteries.

[echen1024]

http://www.trcelectronics.com/View/Mean-Well/SE-1000-5.shtml
(link from his kickstarter comment)

That is a $180, 150A PSU!

Lets say he get's these PSU's for free.
Lets even say he makes nice casings from scrap plywood he found on the curb or dump.

Now he has to ship this stuff to the backers:

PSU: 2.5 kg
Plywood: 0.75 kg
Mains cable & battery terminals 0.3 kg
AA battery: 0.022 kg
Flimsy shipping box, no padding: 0.25 kg

Total weight: 3,822 kg

I don't know what the shipping costs would be for this, but I guess there won't be much money left for the batteries.

3822 grams(?)

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

Not to mention that the final product must meet safety regulations, UL, CSA and whatever the EU has these days, to be imported. Sounds like a fire waiting to happen unless it's thoroughly tested and approved. The minute one of these babies goes up and kills someone, well you get the rest.

[rob77]

I'm tempted to throw in $25 for the PSU alone, with free shipping to the UK and some high spec capacitors thrown in. 

throwing the $25 out of the window would be much more efficient you would at least make someone happy who'll find that $25

[Ryano]

I'm tempted to throw in $25 for the PSU alone, with free shipping to the UK and some high spec capacitors thrown in. 

I just did that very thing. Not that I think I will ever see anything from it, but it's relatively cheap entertainment!

[Jay_Diddy_B]

+1

I signed up for $25.00

I am not even sure of there are enough of these surplus power supplies to go round.

At the moment there are 377 backers, 81 are at level where you don't get a charger, so Shawn has to find 296 chargers at the moment. There are 5 hours left in the campaign.

I am not expecting too much. I will be able to add comments to the Kickstarter.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[jaxbird]

I'm tempted to throw in $25 for the PSU alone, with free shipping to the UK and some high spec capacitors thrown in. 

Spend it on something tangible instead

There seems to be a pattern of each time someone calls out the major issues in this project, the project owner "spills the beans" and "admits" what he previously showed is not at all what the final product will be like. E.g. commercial lithium capacitor vs. incredible home brew graphene capacitor and normal to220 regulator based charger vs high A switchmode.

I'm sure if someone convinced him that a nuclear reactor was needed, he would spill the beans again and "admit" he had a working prototype in his garage.

I think the conclusion is:

A) the man is an incredible genius, his contributions will change the world as we know it.
B) he is a pathological liar.
C) he is a fraud who will say whatever it takes to bag the money.
D) he is a good guy, but desperately needs $10k+ for some very urgent purpose.

You choose

[sunnyhighway]

Did some mathematics on the prices of the perks.

1 charger + 1 AA battery   = $25
1 charger + 2 AA batteries = $50
1 charger + 4 AA batteries = $100

Simplifying these equations would lead to: 1 charger = $0

I stand to be corrected, my mathematic skills could be a bit rusty.

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

One from column B, one from column C IMHO.

A) the man is an incredible genius, his contributions will change the world as we know it.
B) he is a pathological liar.
C) he is a fraud who will say whatever it takes to bag the money.
D) he is a good guy, but desperately needs $10k+ for some very urgent purpose.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Did some mathematics on the prices of the perks.

1 charger + 1 AA battery   = $25
1 charger + 2 AA batteries = $50
1 charger + 4 AA batteries = $100

Simplifying these equations would lead to: 1 charger = $0

I stand to be corrected, my mathematic skills could be a bit rusty.

It is better to order the $25.00 pledge 4 times, that way you get 4 chargers.

A question has been asked about shipping costs on Kickstarter.

Jay_Diddy_B

[jaxbird]

Did some mathematics on the prices of the perks.

1 charger + 1 AA battery   = $25
1 charger + 2 AA batteries = $50
1 charger + 4 AA batteries = $100

Simplifying these equations would lead to: 1 charger = $0

I stand to be corrected, my mathematic skills could be a bit rusty.

I dare to guess that he originally estimated the cost of a charger equal to that of a cheap 7805 (without any caps!)  hence the simplicity of the original charger pictured

[miguelvp]

If he has the power supplies and he is not there to make money from the kickstarter then it makes more sense. He might be even loose some money but at least he will try to get his product out and wait to see if it gets traction.

If he planned to get $10K or $15K that's not a lot of money to get to ruin your reputation in the future. So I doubt he has malicious intents. Maybe naive? we will see.

[jaxbird]

If he has the power supplies and he is not there to make money from the kickstarter then it makes more sense. He might be even loose some money but at least he will try to get his product out and wait to see if it gets traction.

If he planned to get $10K or $15K that's not a lot of money to get to ruin your reputation in the future. So I doubt he has malicious intents. Maybe naive? we will see.

I always admire optimism and seeing the best in people 

Unfortunately I don't work like that, but I bet you must be a lot more happy and free of worries

[jaxbird]

For those not following the campaign directly, here is the latest update from Shawn:

Ok, now that the Kickstarter campaign is coming to a close, I've got a better idea of the timeline for production and shipping.

Within 2 weeks of August 8th, I'll have the power supplies for the chargers and the PCB's and all of the components for the PCB will be ordered and then sent off to have the reflow soldering done. Soldering of the capacitor to the PCB will be done seperately due to the fact that reflow would short the capacitor.

Near the end of August, the battery holders will be mated to the power supplies. The battery casing will also go in to production at a local machine shop. The battery case is made of 31/64" brass tube. When I say production, I mean cutting tubing to size and deburring the rough edges.

Capacitors will arrive in early to mid September and they'll be mated to the PCB. After that, everything is assembled and packaged for shipping. With every shipment, I will be included a list of general precautions to take. Nothing too terribly serious. More or less, don't throw the batteries in a fire, don't solder directly to them, don't eat them, etc. If anyone has any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Thanks again to all the backers out there!


Lots more 'free' entertainment to come I predict.

[Rasz]

I signed up for $25.00

sucker

so Shawn has to find 296 chargers at the moment

no, he doesnt. All he has to do is count money some idiots send him.

It is better to order the $25.00 pledge 4 times, that way you get 4 chargers.

you get four bags full of dicks

A question has been asked about shipping costs on Kickstarter.

shipping of WHAT?

[Jay_Diddy_B]

+1

I signed up for $25.00

I am not even sure of there are enough of these surplus power supplies to go round.

At the moment there are 377 backers, 81 are at level where you don't get a charger, so Shawn has to find 296 chargers at the moment. There are 5 hours left in the campaign.

I am not expecting too much. I will be able to add comments to the Kickstarter.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

Group members do not worry, I have not lost my mind. I cancelled my pledge before the campaign was over. 

In addition to all the concerns that have been raised here already, I was concerned that IF he shipped one of the power supplies to you, I would get a bill from FedEx for customs paperwork. The fact that the guy cutting the tubes to length is going to ship them on his FedEx account might be true, but I sure he will not be picking up the bill. It makes no sense at all. The guy *may* have offered to do that if he was shipping a few AA batteries, but not the heavy duty charger required.

The talk of charging through a Zener diode, in the recent comments doesn't make any sense at all. If Shawn had tried this he would have found that diode would have failed very quickly.

The timelines given for the production are unrealistic. We saw how Dave executed the successful uCurrent Campaign, and this should be a benchmark on how to run a successful project. In Dave's case he had a well designed and proven product at the start.

It will be interesting to watch how this plays out.

From what I can see the costs are going far exceed the amount that was pledged.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[ziq8tsi]

The talk of charging through a Zener diode, in the recent comments doesn't make any sense at all. If Shawn had tried this he would have found that diode would have failed very quickly.

Indeed.  Perhaps the guy Frode who originally proposed a Zener was thinking of a Schottky.  Either way he said it several times, and none of the other backers corrected him, so Shawn eventually agreed:

@Frode I apologize for not answering you earlier. There is a 1500 watt, surface mount zener diode contained inside. I'm trying to locate the exact model number if the diode. Somewhere in my email I've got the sample request form from the company I got them from.

Since then it has been pointed out that a Zener is the wrong type, and that any diode will get way too hot.  So Shawn has backtracked slightly, admitting that the Zener was not the best choice.  "It was just the highest power diode I was able to locate, so I used it."

He is literally making this shit up as he goes along.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,
Just a quick comment on the Littelfuse diode. When they say a transient voltage suppressor diode is rated for 1500W, they mean that it is rated for 1500W for 1ms as shown in this graph, taken from the Littelfuse 1.5SMC series datasheet:



In addition, the 1500W rating is for device in avalanche. The forward rating is given here on the datasheet:



Note: at 100A the forward voltage drop is 3.5V.

A surface mount Schottky diode, like a B520 from Diodes Inc, has a non-repetitive peak surge current of a 100A for a single-half cycle (8.3ms) at 60 Hz. So a Schottky diode would also fail under the conditions required to charge a 1500F capacitor from 1.8V to 3.8V in 30 seconds.



There is no doubt in my mind that the diode would fail if subjected to the charging currents. It is obvious that Shawn hasn't tried this.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[Ryano]

I'm expecting the announcement of version 3 any day now!

  BBC News "Hemp fibres 'better than graphene"
  http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-28770876

At least when the thing blows up the first time you charge it you'll have a good time and still get your moneys worth.**

** Yes, I know the difference between hemp fiber and marijuana. That was meant as a joke and should be used for entertainment purposes only.

[george graves]

Still, worth it if he delivers the 150A power supply. I hope people hold him to that.

LOL.  I'll give you a dollar if he does.  It's not going to happen.

So this campaign....$18k for a bad video and an idea.  Not a bad clean up on his end.  Let's say 40 hours of his time. $450 per hour.

(honestly - I think this guy really believes it what he's doing) If he was smart, he would have gotten ABC, NBC, CNN to interview him.

I wish I had no morals.  I'd totally start the "SOLAR FREAKING DILDOS " kickstarter.  There are millions of sex toys with that can harness energy ..Why not put solar cells on top of it?

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

(honestly - I think this guy really believes it what he's doing)

I don't think so. Perhaps because I've come across too many like him in my life. Some even have a PhD: the university in España is the biggest kickstarter ever: they propose multi-million dollar projects no matter how bizarre in order to get funds to waste in the gadgets they want and to travel to the places they like. I'm not saying all, but almost, of these projects despite being clearly scams get funded.

[electrophiliate]

Something is definitely off about this project. As others have already explained in detail, the alleged capacitance and the charging currents required to meet the claimed performance are simply impractical, based on what he has presented so far. It could be a scam, but after reading the description and comments, part of me wonders if he has mostly underestimated what is involved, didn't do enough homework or prototyping before taking it to Kickstarter, made too many overly optimistic assumptions, and is just improvising in response to criticism as he goes along.

A few of the backers don't even care if the project has a poor chance of success, they are supporting the guy having a go. I can understand that spirit on some level in general but in this case I'm just not feeling it. The project seems amateurish rather than [crazy genius doing something great with minimal resources].

Dave's uCurrent GOLD was a good example of a worthy Kickstarter project, and many of us received a decent measurement instrument out of it. I doubt anyone will be receiving their special graphene batteries, or the discounted 150A charger, as promised. At best the backers may end up with a battery of much reduced capacity which can be charged relatively quickly on lower currents but only be useful for low power devices for a relatively short time. Such a battery may have some uses if charging time must be rapid.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi Group,

There is an update posted today. It is for backers only. Anybody want to share?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shawnpwest/30-second-charging-rechargeable-battery/posts

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[hamster_nz]

Hi Group,

There is an update posted today. It is for backers only. Anybody want to share?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shawnpwest/30-second-charging-rechargeable-battery/posts

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

If you didn't pay for your ticket, you don't get to ride on the bus.... :-)