Keysight Scope Giveaway

[mikeselectricstuff]

Of course a very easy way to reduce the nominal value is for it to be slightly used, not new. KS just need to open the box...
They could also ship the unit with the lowest option set, and later release the license keys for that unit as a "special free promoiton" or sell at a nominal token price.

 

[Hypernova]

WTH, I got a email today from keysight_video@eepw.com.cn that looks awfully like a scam, it's got a QR code that just leads to another website (I opened this in a VM to be safe) with the contact detail for some "sandro_ye@keysight.com".

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

WTH, I got a email today from keysight_video@eepw.com.cn that looks awfully like a scam, it's got a QR code that just leads to another website (I opened this in a VM to be safe) with the contact detail for some "sandro_ye@keysight.com".

That's really weird, might have been a WeChat error? That is a Keysight employee.

[rx8pilot]

Daniel - *****off topic****

Is Keysight at APEC?

...

[Hypernova]

WTH, I got a email today from keysight_video@eepw.com.cn that looks awfully like a scam, it's got a QR code that just leads to another website (I opened this in a VM to be safe) with the contact detail for some "sandro_ye@keysight.com".

That's really weird, might have been a WeChat error? That is a Keysight employee.

No idea, I have no idea what winning a "scope accessory pack" is supposed to mean:

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

WTH, I got a email today from keysight_video@eepw.com.cn that looks awfully like a scam, it's got a QR code that just leads to another website (I opened this in a VM to be safe) with the contact detail for some "sandro_ye@keysight.com".

That's really weird, might have been a WeChat error? That is a Keysight employee.

No idea, I have no idea what winning a "scope accessory pack" is supposed to mean:

It's actually possible you won something!  China is running Scope Month a little differently, and the employee name and e-mail address is valid.

[84GKSIG]

and now it looks like i some how managed to miss the competition again

[TheSteve]

Daniel - Can you tell us if the prizes come with the full factory warranty?

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

Daniel - Can you tell us if the prizes come with the full factory warranty?

I'm 95% sure they do, but can try to verify when I'm back in the office.

[TheSteve]

Daniel - Can you tell us if the prizes come with the full factory warranty?

I'm 95% sure they do, but can try to verify when I'm back in the office.

I only ask as I recently tried to get warranty service on a Keysight product that was given away as a promotion at an event and was told it only had a 30 day warranty instead of the usual 3 years. As the product was defective out of the box I was rather shocked. I let them know I was not impressed at all, it took a few extra days but Keysight stepped up and handled the repair free of charge.

I have also noticed that at least one Keysight product sent to Dave for tear down only had a 30 or 90 day warranty - this doesn't seem too unreasonable though.

Everything combined had me wondering if it was maybe Keysight standard practice to give a shortened warranty on all prize/promotional items.

[Brumby]

Everything combined had me wondering if it was maybe Keysight standard practice to give a shortened warranty on all prize/promotional items.

That would be a real source of anxiety for an expensive product.

[Macbeth]

Everything combined had me wondering if it was maybe Keysight standard practice to give a shortened warranty on all prize/promotional items.

That would be a real source of anxiety for an expensive product.

Why? There are some people who seem more than happy to pay over many $1000's to the VAT man for a purely technical reason. It's a "gift" after all. If it fails on day 1, why should they have any come back with Keysight? Keysight didn't charge the VAT - the scope was given away for free. They don't have any liability with the Mail Order Protection Schemes either, because you didn't mail order it or pay a bean to Keysight.

Take it up with the tax authorities that some people appear to know and love  after all many of you insist that they deserve their implied cut from a MSRP transaction that NEVER HAPPENED! 

[Brumby]

You missed my point.  It was not a complaint - but an expression of concern.

If I had such a scope without warranty, I would be hoping like hell that nothing went wrong with it.  Repairs on a $15,000 scope could be somewhat expensive.  Without warranty, it could become an expensive doorstop well before it's time.

It's only the reputation of the company that would ease that concern - but there are always things that can go wrong in a production environment .... and I'd be the one likely to get a failed cap that ruins a thousand dollar board.

[Macbeth]

You missed my point.  It was not a complaint - but an expression of concern.

If I had such a scope without warranty, I would be hoping like hell that nothing went wrong with it.  Repairs on a $15,000 scope could be somewhat expensive.  Without warranty, it could become an expensive doorstop well before it's time.

It's only the reputation of the company that would ease that concern - but there are always things that can go wrong in a production environment .... and I'd be the one likely to get a failed cap that ruins a thousand dollar board.

Sorry, I was just being sarcastic with the bozos that keep shouting about "Didn't you read the small print T&C's? check with your accountant and lawyer before entering the comp?", etc..

All of this would become moot if Keysight simply sent the goods from a local distributor (which they have already stated they will), along with a VAT invoice including a 100% discount. It really is that simple. Their books will be in order and the VAT man doesn't have to send the dogs on end customers, which they don't anyway - they always go for the last link in the chain.

Why they haven't stated it would be dealt with this way is beyond me?

[Brumby]

Apologies.  Sarcasm doesn't always come through clearly.


Text based communication often leaves a lot to be desired.  I've frequently referred to it as being like trying to appreciate opera via teletype.

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

Why they haven't stated it would be dealt with this way is beyond me?

How the scopes are supplied is 100% dependent on where you live, and we're working that out with the winners.  It may come from a distributor, but not for every situation.  The goal is to run through the distributors, but every region has their own laws and regulations on how sweepstakes can/can't work.

[Howardlong]

All of this would become moot if Keysight simply sent the goods from a local distributor (which they have already stated they will), along with a VAT invoice including a 100% discount. It really is that simple. Their books will be in order and the VAT man doesn't have to send the dogs on end customers, which they don't anyway - they always go for the last link in the chain.

Is that the official view of a tax accountant and HMRC, or just what we'd all like to happen?

The only official reference I've found to this situation is that VAT is due based on the non-discounted price on a prize. If you're a VAT registered company then of course it's not a problem as the VAT will be reclaimed.

If you could get away with zero VAT on imports by just saying it's a prize, everybody would be doing it, much like the infamous circular invoice mobile phone VAT scam.

[Macbeth]

The only official reference I've found to this situation is that VAT is due based on the non-discounted price on a prize gift. If you're a VAT registered company then of course it's not a problem as the VAT will be reclaimed.

Considering 100% VAT is only applicable on MRRP on "gifts" (Which I would say are of a personal and/or occasional nature) - typically given without any invoice, then it makes sense. (Oh how rude is it to give someone a gift with a price attached! shameful!)

Providing an invoice for whatever value you want (which is up to the seller, not the HMRC), and then adding a line for discount applied (even 100%) does not make it a gift. Also, samples are 100% VAT free. I would say a quantity of 1 is a perfect example of a sample. Luring a potential customer is what promotional samples are all about...

Realistically no VAT inspector worth his salt is going to waste time investigating whether these prizes are gifts/samples/100% discount prizes. Do they really want to take a battle up with Keysight on such a tiny volume of stuff? Especially when no actual money has changed hands in the chain?

[Brumby]

Why they haven't stated it would be dealt with this way is beyond me?

How the scopes are supplied is 100% dependent on where you live, and we're working that out with the winners.  It may come from a distributor, but not for every situation.  The goal is to run through the distributors, but every region has their own laws and regulations on how sweepstakes can/can't work.

That kinda says it all.

[Macbeth]

@evb149: Mountain Time, midnight cutoff.

[Howardlong]

The only official reference I've found to this situation is that VAT is due based on the non-discounted price on a prize gift. If you're a VAT registered company then of course it's not a problem as the VAT will be reclaimed.

Considering 100% VAT is only applicable on MRRP on "gifts" (Which I would say are of a personal and/or occasional nature) - typically given without any invoice, then it makes sense. (Oh how rude is it to give someone a gift with a price attached! shameful!)

Providing an invoice for whatever value you want (which is up to the seller, not the HMRC), and then adding a line for discount applied (even 100%) does not make it a gift. Also, samples are 100% VAT free. I would say a quantity of 1 is a perfect example of a sample. Luring a potential customer is what promotional samples are all about...

Realistically no VAT inspector worth his salt is going to waste time investigating whether these prizes are gifts/samples/100% discount prizes. Do they really want to take a battle up with Keysight on such a tiny volume of stuff? Especially when no actual money has changed hands in the chain?

Well we can all live in hope, if we get to win a prize that is.

Is that your opinion of what we'd all like to happen, or that of a tax accountant and/or HMRC?

As I said before if we could get away with paying no VAT by saying everything's a prize, we'd all be at it. While you might think it's noise on the accounting sheet in the big scheme of things, I don't know of any accountant who would squirrel away an odd item of non-trifling value, and the prizes are definitely that.

It's not a "sample" as it doesn't fit HMRC's description, punters aren't testing the product with an intention of making a future purchase.

On the other hand gifts are specifically charged at the full value, and is the closest official text that can find that reflects the scenario.

https://www.gov.uk/vat-businesses/discounts-and-free-gifts

As I said, we live in hope, but I am still glass half empty on the topic. If I picked up the phone and asked HMRC specifically the question, the answer is always going to be that VAT is charged, because that's going to be their default answer when they don't know. A reasonably experienced tax accountant would have a better view, in that if HMRC try to make it up as they go along, the accountant would be prepared to challenge the decision.

If you've ever had a VAT inspection, you'd know that you don't mess with the taxman. As soon as they find one suspicious anomaly, it normally points to other shenanigans, and they'll be over you like flies round a turd. I am sure that Keysight and their distributors will be aware of that.

But, as I say, we live in hope.

[nihtila]

I am sure Keysight is not breaking any laws in this so I do take it as a fact what they tell me. But despite that, there seems to be dozen people in this threat who "know" better. Funny though that they know differently.

And as it has been said already, it fully depends on the country you live in. It seems UK is a good choice in this case.

[Towger]

If you've ever had a VAT inspection, you'd know that you don't mess with the taxman. As soon as they find one suspicious anomaly, it normally points to other shenanigans, and they'll be over you like flies round a turd. I am sure that Keysight and their distributors will be aware of that.
[/quote]

Depends... Years ago... My first real job was in a multinational and we had a VAT audit.  It went on for a couple of weeks, but they ran the "F****n B***h" (as she was called) around in circles. She spend most of her time looking for £150 on one item and missing much bigger anomalies.  Of course is a help when you have a team of accountants, 6 actuaries and 2 solicitors on staff to keep them busy with mountains of paper work.  It is another story if you are a small to medium sized company.

[nihtila]

I have never experienced any VAT issues myself, I am just an employee and also just recently moved to the UK.

I do trust Keysight on this but one general question regarding sweepstakes, let's say in the UK in this case. If I get my prize without paying anything and later someone notices that things didn't go by the book, is there any change that the taxman would come after me? Or is the one who gave the prize they are after? After all, it is not me who accounts any money to the taxman but the seller/giver, right?

The situation is different in the US where prizes are considered as income, then the individual is responsible for accounting to the taxman?

Is this correct?

[Macbeth]

I've had a VAT inspection. It was a doddle. She was more concerned about my not having a proper job (being an IT Contractor) and feeling sorry for me not having a cushy permie number like her. There was a brief fluster when I couldn't find the actual paper invoice for an expensive laptop. She was going to charge the VAT and let me claim it back if/when I did find the invoice. Then I remembered I previously had it when I had to phone about warranty issues and filed it elsewhere. Phew, we both laughed a sigh of relief when I found it! She wished me good luck on finding a proper job as she left, despite me saying I am more than happy contracting. It took about an hour all in.