POLL & Discussion: Keysight 1000X Giveaway

[metrologist]

So I have a couple to giveaway, and the usual argument has come up again. Should I just limit the forum giveaway to countries not covered the Keysight Scopemonth promo, or to everyone?
Remember that Keysight are giving away 5 scopes per day for a month.
Argue away...

I gotta wonder why, or what's the motivation? Would this (your scope giveaway) be an argument if the Chinese mfgs were giving away scopes to the world, or only to  non "privileged" countries?

I'd rather we  look at the real issue here. It's white people who are privileged, no matter where they live. So exclude them, not poor unfortunate minorities that happen to live in a "privileged" region, but are still unjustly discriminated against.

Why not exclude people that have careers or nice jobs? Why not only include students?

Rather than stereotype an entire group/class/or region of people and continue to proliferate and promote the hate?

I get it. It's not fair that these other companies are excluding certain regions. Some social justice warrior needs to step in and make it right.

[UlToPri]

Quote from: tzok on Today at 07:48:22 PM

I said "no" in the poll, because I live in a country which is covered by the Scope Month promotion (Poland), yet I can't participate as I work for a public university :(

This is exactly the problem I see, too. What's with the people in a land which is covered but are not allowed because of one of the other terms in Keysights Terms & Conditions?

Tom

[metrologist]

Also, what about countries that have their own separate contests to win:

[quote = Keysight]Australia will have their own independent contest (not sweepstakes) beginning 1-March. Tune in then for details![\quote]

[tautech]

Your forum Dave so do as you think best but could I offer an idea.

All Members, 6+ months and 20+ posts that don't have a DSO. Too hard ?

[TNb]

I'd rather we  look at the real issue here. It's white people who are privileged, no matter where they live.

Are you really saying it here or do I just don't get the sarcasm? Not sure if I misunderstood your post or it is a first appearance of SJW here. Hope its the former

[TheDane]

You cannot right a wrong by committing another wrong. Everyone should be able to participate IMHO.

No.  (And Yes, on the everyone participating part)
Rules are rules, and apparently they are made for a reason. What those reasons might be, well... Fight!
__________________________________________________________________________________

On another channel:

- Are you a WINNER!
- Are you a DESIGNER?

are you in it for the competition - are are you in it for the scope, and the awesomeness a new scope gives you.
Me, I don't care - Denmark is on the list, 
- 5 scopes a day, and/or a few (from down under) there, it's winning and getting one that counts. Good imaginary values, hard to do something real about besides spending time hoping.
What I wonder about is when my karma counter overflows, and I get upgraded from 1.4 inch floppy and noisy fan to USB and 
  Best of luck

[BU508A]

Hello Daniel,

[...] the decision is based purely on legality.

just out of curiousity: can you give us an example, which laws in Belgium prohibits Keysight from including Belgíum into the scope month?

I'm just wondering, since all this law stuff is a mysterium to me.

Thanks and regards,

Andreas

[BU508A]

@ Dave:

I know, it is a bit off-topic, but I'd like to ask you a favour:
When you are doing the full review of this scope, is it possible, that you'll do a short comparision with the Rohde & Schwarz HMO 1232 scope you have?
Would be great and really appreciated.

Thanks and regards,

Andreas

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

That's not it, we actually did some extra looking into Belgium specifically after a couple people commented on it during Cyberweek and there's nothing we were able to do. From a logical standpoint, the number of interested people is roughly proportional to the amount of business in a country is roughly proportional to the number of Scope Month entries. It doesn't hurt us to include more countries, the decision is based purely on legality.

I can confirm for Croatia that Daniel is right.. Laws here are complicated for this kind of event..

But, Daniel, I have a suggestion. You might check with your legal department if this is possible.

Dont make a contest that draws scopes... You don't give me a scope as a gift. You can give me a voucher that gives me 99% discount if I go and buy scope from Keysight.
So I can buy it for , let's say 10 USD... That legally makes it a purchase, and all is solved.... You can make voucher nontransferable, so no funky business with that.

How about that?
Would that be possible?

Hi Sinisa, I asked the same question when we were planning. Basically the voucher becomes a prize and is legally worth that 99% $ value, so it only buys you $10 less in prize value and all of the same legal complications are in play.

[mtdoc]

It would be nice to know the relative odds.  How many people enter the Keysight drawing?   I  suspect many more than the EEVblog forum drawing.

If so you would be penalizing the forum members who are in Keysight eligible countries.  Is that fair?

Also, since you found these in the dumpster, winners will not be liable for taxes - unlike the Keysight direct scopes. 

I don't expect I'd win one regardless but for the reasons above I think all Forum members should be eligible.

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

Hello Daniel,

[...] the decision is based purely on legality.

just out of curiousity: can you give us an example, which laws in Belgium prohibits Keysight from including Belgíum into the scope month?

Hi Andreas,

Thanks for asking, I wish there was a simple answer.

I don't know off the top of my head. A number of countries (and/or USA states) require that a cash bond be posted to the country/state worth the total value of the prize. That's out of the question for us, imagine trying to do that for a dozen countries. Some countries have limits on who can run sweepstakes (local only, individual only, gov't only, etc.). Some countries have maximum prize values per individual winner, some have maximum values for total collective prize values. Is it considered gambling, if so do you need a license and do you have to pay a cut of the prize to the government? Is it an online contest or offline contest? How is the drawing being done, is there a gov't auditor, etc. The list of possible options is quite long.

It's also all "mysterium" to me, but I do trust that our legal team did include as many countries as possible.

It would be nice to know the relative odds.  How many people enter the Keysight drawing?   I  suspect many more than the EEVblog forum drawing.

We don't give away numbers and odds, but we definitely get a lot of entrants.

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

(excluding Florida, New York, and Rhode Island)

Why is New York excluded? 

See my answer about Belgium . But, you can always contact your local government representative (who make the laws ). Believe me, if we could include all of everyone we absolutely would.

[@rt]

If there are 5 units, maybe a couple could be limited that way,
Just like one has been limited to YouTube commenters.
Maybe even one could be limited to Brisbane.
I need it for all my stupid Arduino & Pi stuff.

[AntiProtonBoy]

In regards to Australia, what are the laws that excludes us from the official Keysight comp?

[djos]

In regards to Australia, what are the laws that excludes us from the official Keysight comp?

I was wondering that too, prizes are tax exempt here.

[Muttley Snickers]

Off topic and language warning.   

After thorough testing of the Youtube random comment selector program that Dave might use I've found that it seems to work perfectly well, seriously I didn't cheat or edit the first picture below but I do have a bloody sore index finger, it did throw up a couple of weird comments though with no name on one and the other we won't even talk about, nor the Siglent banners for that matter.   

Youtube Random Comment Picker.
http://www.sandracires.com/en/client/youtube/random.htm

[Muttley Snickers]

Samgab did win the same draw twice within in twenty minutes so it was probably rigged or something.   

[Brumby]

In regards to Australia, what are the laws that excludes us from the official Keysight comp?

I was wondering that too, prizes are tax exempt here.

That is something for entrants - the promoters will have other hoops to jump through.

Another thing is that things fall under state control - so it won't be one law for the country you would have to comply with - but one for each state.  This could end up being lot of hard work just sorting it out - and then you would have multiple compliance conditions.

But I'm not a lawyer, so the details are something upon which I cannot comment.

[Brumby]

It's just the usual USA "I cannot be bothered to look up your law, so instead I dont do business with you, you are insignificant anyway" infuriating mentality.

I call bullshit on that.  They seem to have looked up enough laws in enough countries to put up a list of eligible countries.

Let ma ask you a question: Have you looked up your laws on this subject?

You know, what? Not really. I dont make draws.
But I did it now anyway. Here it is:

Prize Draws – Can a promotion be run where there is an
element of chance in the selection of the winner and where
a prize is awarded?
Lawful, provided:
(a) participants have an active involvement (i.e. physical or intellectual effort). If no active
participation is required, the contest is to be considered a prohibited lottery (Note: a company
can organise a lottery in collaboration with and through a not-for-profit organisation that has
obtained a licence from one of the competent public authorities but this is likely to substantially
increase the cost of the promotion).
AND
(b) a licence is obtained from the Belgian Gaming Commission (required both for the offline
and online offering of games of chance)
OR, if case (b) is not applicable:
(c) participants do not pay to enter

So same as doing the 1+1 math exam, like the Canadians.

That only talks to the basics as to whether such a promotion can be run - and what an entrant might expect.

It does NOT address the specific compliance requirements of the promoter.  These may be simple - or they might be a nightmare.

[dwpatter53]

Where are the majority of your forum members from?

Will you be excluding then if you go for people excluded from scope giveaway?

Dave

[EEVblog]

If there are 5 units, maybe a couple could be limited that way,
Just like one has been limited to YouTube commenters.

Currently that one is 1 in 7053 chance 
Odds are much better as a Patreon supporter.
I'm also feeling like it would be nice to give one away to a young beginner based solely on my discretion.
That would leave two for the forum, which based on previous giveaways is less than 1 in 1000.

[@rt]

It is likely I’ll upgrade to a used monochrome Tectonics, and my colour 100MHz scope already has a young fellas name on it.
It’s an upgrade because it has one bung channel no matter if you swap the separate ADC boards.
A 14 year old from a radio club I no longer attend, had the biggest impact on me than anything else about the club.
You’d be hard pressed finding a 14yo who has wound a coil for any reason in these times I think.

I'm also feeling like it would be nice to give one away to a young beginner based solely on my discretion.
That would leave two for the forum, which based on previous giveaways is less than 1 in 1000.

[Azhar]

Even if the poll were for only 5 people and I am one of them, I don't think I'm gonna win!!

[metrologist]

I'd rather we  look at the real issue here. It's white people who are privileged, no matter where they live.

Are you really saying it here or do I just don't get the sarcasm? Not sure if I misunderstood your post or it is a first appearance of SJW here. Hope its the former

That would depend on the answers to my questions, omitted in your quote. It was just to illustrate a point of failed idealism, as this is sort of along the lines of affirmative action, which I guess Dave believes in by his suggesting this action, and others that would agree with it (if we dismiss the conflict of interest elephant). I kind of do not understand how EEVblog can give away a scope, but Keysight can't, but that may be just as irrelevant.

[bitseeker]

I kind of do not understand how EEVblog can give away a scope, but Keysight can't, but that may be just as irrelevant.

Dave (an individual) giving a gift vs. Keysight (a corporation) conducting a promotion, sweepstakes, contest, or whatever a particular government classifies it as.