Your view?

[Shock]

My nice is just starting University here in Germany and had to pay the Euro 50 registration fee for the semester and was complaining about it. When I told her that she should look to other countries and find out how much they are paying for a semester, she only said that she is in Germany and is expecting this to be free.

Tell her your tax money is paying her education. When she works full time then she can start complaining about where her money goes and what the fees should be.

[AF6LJ]

I have heard similar stories for years. Female or male, children being little privileged brats expecting their parents to pay everything, including their errors and idiocy and at total loss to the parents. It has nothing to do with being a female.

Your quite right this behavior does transcend the boundaries of biological sex.
As my roommate likes to put it "This kind of behavior begins with improper potty training."
The implication being that the improper upbringing began not long after birth.

[Mechanical Menace]

Tell her your tax money is paying her education. When she works full time then she can start complaining about where her money goes and what the fees should be.

Why does full time make a difference? Are her taxes on any hypothetical part time income not also paying for that education? Isn't the VAT she pays, local taxes, and every other tax they wangle into everything?

Why do only full time workers have the right to say anything? I pay more tax than most of them so they should have less right to say anything about it than me, is that fair?

By your logic as soon as anyone pays more tax than you do you have no right to comment, complain, or even just have an opinion on anything unless you pay more tax than everybody else in the world.

[SeanB]

Well. here in South Africa education up till 16 is nominally free, though there are a lot of grade 10 leavers who are unable to do more than write down their name, possibly read a little, can count up to 10 possibly, and who expect that they should go to university, and that they should pay no fees, do not need to actually learn and that after 4 years they will automatically get a degree, a government job, a car, a house, clothing and food ( and of course booze in large amounts), all for just being there.

When you have "students" saying that they want things, and that they should not pay for anything, and that they find things not to their liking and burning them, vandalising them, and generally making it impossible for those students who are paying, are studying and who will graduate with a valid degree to do anything. All things that are a result of them never actually being taught anything in school or at home.

[miguelvp]

State and federal funding for universities in the US only covers 20% of their budget. US universities are good because of the extra 80% that comes from research, tuition, sports and alumni donations.

[Shock]

Tell her your tax money is paying her education. When she works full time then she can start complaining about where her money goes and what the fees should be.

Why does full time make a difference? Are her taxes on any hypothetical part time income not also paying for that education? Isn't the VAT she pays, local taxes, and every other tax they wangle into everything?

Why do only full time workers have the right to say anything? I pay more tax than most of them so they should have less right to say anything about it than me, is that fair?

By your logic as soon as anyone pays more tax than you do you have no right to comment, complain, or even just have an opinion on anything unless you pay more tax than everybody else in the world.

From your reply I see you missed the point of my comment entirely and think I was initiating a tax or workers rights debate, please keep trying until you understand it, I couldn't have put it any simpler.

[Mechanical Menace]

State and federal funding for universities in the US only covers 20% of their budget. US universities are good because of the extra 80% that comes from research, tuition, sports and alumni donations.

Apart from sports* that's where most universities worldwide get most of their income no matter how their students tuition is paid.


*I've never understood how school sports days can be a commercial product. Or how that sort of thing can even be morally or ethically connected to a place of learning.

From your reply I see you missed the point of my comment entirely and think I was initiating a tax or workers rights debate, please keep trying until you understand it, I couldn't have put it any simpler.

If the point wasn't "she's not paying for it I am so has no right to have an opinion on the situation" then the failing wasn't my comprehension but your ability to get a point across. I didn't think you were initiating a debate but missing that while yeah you're paying towards her education so is she as no one pays 0% tax whether they work full time or not.

[CatalinaWOW]

The school sports day thing has it's roots in something that was dogma in US universities at least in the late 1800s.  "A sound mind in a strong body."  That philosophy is still supported by current thinking that says some level of physical activity improves thinking. 

As to how it can be commercialized it is like any other entertainment medium.  If people enjoy watching it, you charge them for it.  People will generally pay more for better quality, as evidenced by winning.  I don't see anything wrong with this.  Some say that student athletes are being disadvantaged because such a tiny fraction will ever earn a living in professional sports.  If a high employment rate in the field of study were the actual standard for inclusion in university curricula whole departments would disappear.  Sumerian languages?  Art appreciation?  Astrophysics?  Philosophy?  Others complain that the universities are making profits while not paying the student athletes.  Has no one heard of graduate students?  University research portfolios live of the product of unpaid or barely paid students.  It is just the cost of admission to a desired lifestyle.

[Shock]

From your reply I see you missed the point of my comment entirely and think I was initiating a tax or workers rights debate, please keep trying until you understand it, I couldn't have put it any simpler.

If the point wasn't "she's not paying for it I am so has no right to have an opinion on the situation" then the failing wasn't my comprehension but your ability to get a point across. I didn't think you were initiating a debate but missing that while yeah you're paying towards her education so is she as no one pays 0% tax whether they work full time or not.

Sorry man can't dumb it down for you any more than I already have. Perhaps you know someone who can explain it a little simpler to you, assist with the language and such.

[CatalinaWOW]

Universal free education has its appeal, but as stated above, there is a need for unwavering standards.  Those who don't meet the standard need pressure toward the off ramp.

Some personal experience shows one of the difficulties.  A couple of decades ago I got a part time job as a lecturer at a local university.  I was assigned a junior level course in that universities "Electrical Engineering Technology" program.  Here in the states Technology degrees can be a sound degree, but they generally emphasize practical experience and application over theory. 

I discovered that the course, which was required for graduation in the discipline, was known as a flunk out course.  It was almost always assigned to a part time lecturer, since full time staff did not want to deal with the various consequences of a high failure rate in the class.  These consequences ranged from the perception of poor teaching ability, to dealing with the protests of those who failed and included the extra office hour time required to deal with struggling students.

Students arriving at this class had the benefit of no standards in their prior education.  Some were fine, and did fine in the class, which was not horribly challenging.  Simple RLC circuits, bridges and multi-phase circuits.  But some were woefully unprepared.  In office hours I discovered that one student could not deal with Ohms law because he was unable to do arithmetic.  Using a calculator.  This student, and society had received little or no benefit from the years of time and money which had gone into him reaching my class. 

[Mechanical Menace]

Sorry man can't dumb it down for you any more than I already have. Perhaps you know someone who can explain it a little simpler to you, assist with the language and such.

Sorry, I don't know anyone who speaks back peddling sanctimonious arsewipe. Maybe you can get one of your care workers to translate it into English?

[Shock]

Sorry man can't dumb it down for you any more than I already have. Perhaps you know someone who can explain it a little simpler to you, assist with the language and such.

Sorry, I don't know anyone who speaks back peddling sanctimonious arsewipe. Maybe you can get one of your care workers to translate it into English?

Look I said I can't, getting abusive is not going to help.

[HighVoltage]

The point I wanted to make was not in relationship where the money comes from, but more in direction of appreciation. Here in Germany, the education is almost free and people can choose what and where they want to study. Although, a university degree is not what it used to be, it is still a really good education for a successful start in to a business life.

And what I am noticing here is the fact, that many young students, including my nice, have no appreciation for this system. Gadgets and closing and the latest fashion is much more important. She is buying herself the latest shirts and "stuff" and never complains about those things costing money. So, just a few days ago, I got really furious with her because of her point of view.

[Shock]

The point I wanted to make was not in relationship where the money comes from, but more in direction of appreciation. Here in Germany, the education is almost free and people can choose what and where they want to study. Although, a university degree is not what it used to be, it is still a really good education for a successful start in to a business life.

And what I am noticing here is the fact, that many young students, including my nice, have no appreciation for this system. Gadgets and closing and the latest fashion is much more important. She is buying herself the latest shirts and "stuff" and never complains about those things costing money. So, just a few days ago, I got really furious with her because of her point of view.

Exactly.

[c4757p]

Sorry man can't dumb it down for you any more than I already have. Perhaps you know someone who can explain it a little simpler to you, assist with the language and such.

Sorry, I don't know anyone who speaks back peddling sanctimonious arsewipe. Maybe you can get one of your care workers to translate it into English?

Look I said I can't, getting abusive is not going to help.

 

[Mechanical Menace]

Look I said I can't, getting abusive is not going to help.

Honestly the words pot kettle and black are coming to mind. You started the abuse with your first response to me, offering no more explanation of how I missed your point than "you're dumb you dummy." You don't want abuse don't be the one to start dishing it out. Fair enough?

[IanB]

Universal free education has its appeal, but as stated above, there is a need for unwavering standards.  Those who don't meet the standard need pressure toward the off ramp.

I was fortunate enough to benefit from the free university education in the UK that Howard described above. But being free meant it was in limited supply, and the bar was set high. First, gaining entry: for popular subjects high grades were needed and many didn't make the grade. If you did get in, you needed to maintain high grades to stay enrolled. Failure to pass annual exams meant being thrown off the course (i.e. out of the university).

But at the time, there were also many vocational alternatives for those who didn't get into university. There were colleges of higher education where you could study more vocational subjects. There were opportunities to join training schemes with employers who sponsored part time study towards qualifications on day release or evenings. Students who didn't make it to university found other paths, and in many cases made it to university a few years later.

It was a system possibly similar to how Germany is today. As to the relative merits we only have to compare the industrial bases of Germany and the UK. It is clear which country still has big automotive companies, chemical companies, automation companies and other engineering companies. (Hint: it isn't the UK.)

[AF6LJ]

Well. here in South Africa education up till 16 is nominally free, though there are a lot of grade 10 leavers who are unable to do more than write down their name, possibly read a little, can count up to 10 possibly, and who expect that they should go to university, and that they should pay no fees, do not need to actually learn and that after 4 years they will automatically get a degree, a government job, a car, a house, clothing and food ( and of course booze in large amounts), all for just being there.

When you have "students" saying that they want things, and that they should not pay for anything, and that they find things not to their liking and burning them, vandalising them, and generally making it impossible for those students who are paying, are studying and who will graduate with a valid degree to do anything. All things that are a result of them never actually being taught anything in school or at home.

I don't think I could have said it any better especially since we have seen that kind of behavior here in the states  where school is paid for by the public through the grade twelve.

A smart man once said something roughly like this.
Adversity makes men
Prosperity makes monsters.

[GreyWoolfe]

AcHmed99, I know that's your sister, but $4k?  It might be time to say, "I love you, but..."

[CatalinaWOW]

The old rule is to never loan money to family.  Consider it a gift.  That way you keep speaking when they don't pay it back.  If you aren't willing to give a gift of that size, just don't do it.  While sometimes family loans are repaid, in the vast majority of cases they just fade away.

[EEVblog]

More interesting than the story is why people want to post and comment about it. Why do people enjoy feeling anger and superiority in this way?
I worry about how it makes people think too. In the UK there is a newspaper that specializes in this kind of story, called the Daily Mail.

You think the radio station found the blew it girl?
Nope, she called them. Another one of her failings.

[XynxNet]

Reading stories like that, I am really glad about our more or less free education system.

Nevertheless even in Germany there are people who drown themselfs in dept during their education, but the responsibility part is more obvious.

[G7PSK]

Universal free education has its appeal, but as stated above, there is a need for unwavering standards.  Those who don't meet the standard need pressure toward the off ramp.

I was fortunate enough to benefit from the free university education in the UK that Howard described above. But being free meant it was in limited supply, and the bar was set high. First, gaining entry: for popular subjects high grades were needed and many didn't make the grade. If you did get in, you needed to maintain high grades to stay enrolled. Failure to pass annual exams meant being thrown off the course (i.e. out of the university).

But at the time, there were also many vocational alternatives for those who didn't get into university. There were colleges of higher education where you could study more vocational subjects. There were opportunities to join training schemes with employers who sponsored part time study towards qualifications on day release or evenings. Students who didn't make it to university found other paths, and in many cases made it to university a few years later.

It was a system possibly similar to how Germany is today. As to the relative merits we only have to compare the industrial bases of Germany and the UK. It is clear which country still has big automotive companies, chemical companies, automation companies and other engineering companies. (Hint: it isn't the UK.)

On the car poduction side You are a little out of date,  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2210199/Britain-producing-MORE-cars-Germany-How-UK-car-production-capital-Europe.html

But on the rest of  I have to largely agree the university for all policy has done nothing but bring standards down, the system as it was in the 60,s and 70,s was far better, but the rot really set in when Harold Wilson made it obligatory to pay equal wages to both apprentices and qualified workers after that you could not get a proper apprenticeship, they have now introduce state sponsored schemes but they are wishy washy to say the least and the standard of the people coming out is rather poor on the whole.     

[SeanB]

The old rule is to never loan money to family.  Consider it a gift.  That way you keep speaking when they don't pay it back.  If you aren't willing to give a gift of that size, just don't do it.  While sometimes family loans are repaid, in the vast majority of cases they just fade away.

Amen to that.................

[Zero999]

The old rule is to never loan money to family.  Consider it a gift.  That way you keep speaking when they don't pay it back.  If you aren't willing to give a gift of that size, just don't do it.  While sometimes family loans are repaid, in the vast majority of cases they just fade away.

Amen to that.................

Well if your sister comes up to you " I need money to buy groceries or pay the rent" what would you say, keeping in mind they also have a child. Its never quite that simple.

Don't give her the money.

Pay her rent  or buy the groceries for her but don't give her any cash.