Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.

[Ed.Kloonk]

We can buy split system air-con from hardware stores here. Finding a right fitter that isn't too much a grumble bum is the key. A couple of them that I've fitted, my usual air-con guy refused to come out. "i;m too busy, can't you just do it?" They come with enough refrig charge in them if your frig lines are short ie though a wall. And they have a air bleed so you just do that after checking the plumbing.

My bloke says that the problem with the consumer buying the stuff is they buy the cheapest system without considering the extreme hot/cold days. It's just one or two people who buy the wrong damn thing, then complain to the regulator who then is forced to spoil the fun for everybody.

[eti]

I have a few, this is a huge pet peeve:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/no-you-didnt-reach-out-you-contacted-them/

[Ed.Kloonk]

In my case, I'm mourning a very nice sound card, that had the misfortune of being

• A FireWire connected device
• A M-Audio piece of hardware, and as such abandoned by them way too early.

It is useless to me, and to most other people, because it's only supported with drivers in OS releases that ought not to run anymore.

MS changed the sound subsystem 4 times during the 90's. Every iteration different from the previous. For no good reason.

And it took them frickin' forever to support USB Audio Class 2.0 for High Speed USB and thus multichannel audio at rates better than 48 kHz. That spec was ratified in 2006 and Apple supported it almost immediately. It took Microsoft nearly fifteen years to add that support to Windows.

It's kinda like how long it took Xilinx to support VHDL-2008.

By the end of the 90's anyone wanting pro sound gear just got a mac. If the thing had mac support, the driver development usually started life in the win environment, then polished up for the mac.

[james_s]

We can buy split system air-con from hardware stores here. Finding a right fitter that isn't too much a grumble bum is the key. A couple of them that I've fitted, my usual air-con guy refused to come out. "i;m too busy, can't you just do it?" They come with enough refrig charge in them if your frig lines are short ie though a wall. And they have a air bleed so you just do that after checking the plumbing.

My bloke says that the problem with the consumer buying the stuff is they buy the cheapest system without considering the extreme hot/cold days. It's just one or two people who buy the wrong damn thing, then complain to the regulator who then is forced to spoil the fun for everybody.

I've put in several split systems, some heat pumps some straight AC, several furnaces and one mini split, 100% success rate on all of it,  all but the mini split were more than 15 years ago and every one of them I put in is still working. I figured it out just fine on my own, but I had to get the stuff from various ebay sellers, mostly scratch & dent equipment. Built some of the tools like my refrigerant recovery machine myself. Already had a good vacuum pump and all the plumbing and electrical tools.

Yes a lot of people are going to buy the wrong thing or screw up the install, that's their problem and their money, just like any other DIY project. The HVAC guys have every right to refuse to come fix botched installs if they don't need the money and I don't mind if the vendors won't warranty the DIY stuff if they'd just sell it. I put in that mini split recently because my friend got quoted almost $8k to have one put in and he found he could buy exactly the same system online for around $2k. No warranty for a DIY install but he realized we could screw it up, throw it away, buy a whole new system and try again and still come out way ahead and it was a good excuse to hang out and work on a project. Piece of cake, knocked out the whole job in an afternoon and it sailed through a record breaking heat wave about a month later.

I don't need technical help, I don't need support, I don't need to ask questions, I'd be happy if I could just walk up to the trade counters, ask for what I want, pay and walk out, same as I do at the electrical and plumbing places when I need something I can't get from the big box stores.

[Ed.Kloonk]

But your friend doesn't have the pay the added cost of conducting the business of fitting an a/c indeed doing several per week. By the time you add up the cost of running a van, insurances, licences, business admin, support staff, maintenance of tools etc his own salary and on top a bit extra to save for a holiday he doesn't have time to have..

Are pricing it at cost and not factoring even your own labor for just one install? I'm glad you saved money but I wonder if the professional price may have been negotiable.

[Ed.Kloonk]

I don't need technical help, I don't need support, I don't need to ask questions, I'd be happy if I could just walk up to the trade counters, ask for what I want, pay and walk out, same as I do at the electrical and plumbing places when I need something I can't get from the big box stores.

To speak to this particular point a bit more, the situation may be due to (as is here) the high regulation of refrigerant gas. We've got some stringent rules for supply here and you have to show you recover the old refrigerant into a bottle for recycling and not just vent it out to the atmosphere like we used to do in the bad old days. There's a bit of book-keeping in regards to proving you are paying to recycle the gas. And big fines if they find out your aren't and putting your licence in jeopardy which is needed to acquire the new gas.

[vk6zgo]

That homophone thing often gets me as well. While i am not claiming i don't make mistakes when writing, these often stand out extremely.

For example break and brake. Or the infamous there, their and they're.

And of course you’ll get some people talking about brakes who’ll use BOTH, sometimes in the same sentence.  At least pick one and be consistent!

-Pat

its happening more and moar.

Come on------ Noone does that!

[SilverSolder]

But your friend doesn't have the pay the added cost of conducting the business of fitting an a/c indeed doing several per week. By the time you add up the cost of running a van, insurances, licences, business admin, support staff, maintenance of tools etc his own salary and on top a bit extra to save for a holiday he doesn't have time to have..

Are pricing it at cost and not factoring even your own labor for just one install? I'm glad you saved money but I wonder if the professional price may have been negotiable.

I guess this is why DIY is "worth it", you are getting quite a good hourly rate for your efforts in some cases.  For example, working on my own cars, I "save" $100 an hour or more, compared to letting the mechanics at it.  Sometimes I do let the mechanics have at it, if the job requires a lift or other equipment that I don't want to invest in.

In the case of the split A/C installation, the difference of $6K seems a lot of money for an afternoon's work,  not really related to hourly pay?

[IDEngineer]

I'm looking into adding AC and replacing our furnace right now. I'm an enthusiastic DIY'er and can, and would, do the job myself. But a bit of research hasn't revealed a source of the equipment to charge a new AC lineset (the two copper tubes that run between the condenser and the coil). I don't know if this is related to regulatory restrictions, rent seeking by the HVAC industry, or what.

[Ed.Kloonk]

I'm looking into adding AC and replacing our furnace right now. I'm an enthusiastic DIY'er and can, and would, do the job myself. But a bit of research hasn't revealed a source of the equipment to charge a new AC lineset (the two copper tubes that run between the condenser and the coil). I don't know if this is related to regulatory restrictions, rent seeking by the HVAC industry, or what.

The problem I can see is convincing the HVAC guy to charge up the lines without knowing how good the plumbing job is. I know my fellow would be very apprehensive about not only leaks but also contaminants in the lines. When the compressor stuffs up, whose fault is it?

If you must insist on DIY, then make sure first that a 'fridgey' (as we call them) would be prepared to 'run the copper' and commission the units on the understanding that you won't undo or otherwise damage the connection ends of all the lines. You'll need to assure that person that the modules on either end are mounted securely and if need be with rubber mounts to arrest vibration travel.

[VooDust]

In medieval times the tradesmen formed guilds and they would come by your house and beat you up if you just started to, say, bake your own bread without playing by the guild's rules.

[PlainName]

When I fitted the aircon in my office the plumbing came pre-charged with a special connector that allowed a live join. That was a few years ago now, and I can't find a source of similar - there are ones like this:

DIY split

but they use different connectors and more acceptable refrigerant. £300 is a steal though - mine was about the same price and payback was 2-3 years over a fan heater. Much more comfortable too.

[IDEngineer]

In medieval times the tradesmen formed guilds and they would come by your house and beat you up if you just started to, say, bake your own bread without playing by the guild's rules.

They've outsourced that enforcement to the government these days.

[IDEngineer]

I'm looking into adding AC and replacing our furnace right now. I'm an enthusiastic DIY'er and can, and would, do the job myself.

The problem I can see is convincing the HVAC guy to charge up the lines without knowing how good the plumbing job is.

No, Do It Yourself. As in I would handle everything including charging the lines. No "HVAC guy" at all.

[E-Design]

I have a few, this is a huge pet peeve:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/no-you-didnt-reach-out-you-contacted-them/

Yes exactly..I can't stand this term. I'm not reaching out like some helpless fool falling off of a cliff. If I am after something, I might grab. I don't "reach out."

These days I hear "Thanks for reaching out.." grrrr.

Who came up with this lame phrase?

[TimFox]

Probably the lyricist for “Sweet Caroline”.

[PlainName]

These days I hear "Thanks for reaching out.." grrrr.

I use that quite often when responding to a salesdroid. What's sauce for the goose, etc. In the same way I often spell colour 'color' just to be rid of the potential for a little friction and make life momentarily smoother.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Probably the lyricist for “Sweet Caroline”.

Neil Diamond?

Over-played song sure but Neil is a living legend.

[jbeng]

An advertising company from Philadelphia started the whole "reach out" thing back in 1979 when they created a very successful ad campaign for AT&T here in the US, where the tag line was "Reach out and touch someone".

Of course, these days, that sort of thing could end up with the "touchee" pressing charges against the [alleged] "toucher"... 

[IDEngineer]

An advertising company from Philadelphia started the whole "reach out" thing back in 1979 when they created a very successful ad campaign for AT&T here in the US, where the tag line was "Reach out and touch someone".

True, but in my experience the phrase had died out by the 90's. Then I started hearing "thanks for reaching out" from our Canadian friends and business contacts. At almost the same time I started hearing "no worries". I don't know the history but it's interesting.

[Bassman59]

In medieval times the tradesmen formed guilds and they would come by your house and beat you up if you just started to, say, bake your own bread without playing by the guild's rules.

There's a subplot in the movie "Brazil" about licensed and rogue HVAC engineers ...

[james_s]

To speak to this particular point a bit more, the situation may be due to (as is here) the high regulation of refrigerant gas. We've got some stringent rules for supply here and you have to show you recover the old refrigerant into a bottle for recycling and not just vent it out to the atmosphere like we used to do in the bad old days. There's a bit of book-keeping in regards to proving you are paying to recycle the gas. And big fines if they find out your aren't and putting your licence in jeopardy which is needed to acquire the new gas.

I have my EPA 608 certification so I can legally buy and work with refrigerant, I got that many years ago, just had to pass a test. The obstacle I hit is that I'm not a licensed contractor. Refrigerant is way too expensive to just vent it even if it were not illegal to do so. The charge in a typical residential split system would cost a couple hundred bucks to replace.

[james_s]

I'm looking into adding AC and replacing our furnace right now. I'm an enthusiastic DIY'er and can, and would, do the job myself.

The problem I can see is convincing the HVAC guy to charge up the lines without knowing how good the plumbing job is.

No, Do It Yourself. As in I would handle everything including charging the lines. No "HVAC guy" at all.

The systems typically come pre-charged. You need to pull a vacuum in the lines, the modern systems want at least down to 500 microns so you need a 2 stage mechanical pump to achieve that but those are not exotic or particularly expensive anymore. Once you confirm that it's holding a vacuum you open the service valves on the condensing unit and that lets the charge out into the rest of the system. Most of the online sellers of HVAC equipment say you're supposed to have a professional come out and hook up the lines but good luck finding one that will touch a system you installed yourself. I don't have a problem with that, they're free to choose what they work on.

The tools are all easy to find, you can buy everything you need in the way of tools online. I've bought a few different vacuum pumps on ebay, mostly for other things but one is a HVAC service pump. You need a gauge manifold, and you really ought to have a micron vacuum gauge. The really proper way to connect the lines is to braze them which requires a nitrogen purge. Personally I've always soldered them with Staybrite 8 silver solder and the liquid flux sold by the same company. A lot of guys will sneer at anything not brazed but I've never had a joint leak or fail. You don't need a nitrogen tank and regulator due to the lower temperature required and the copper doesn't get annealed from the heat. Cleanliness is of the utmost importance, I can't stress that enough. You need to make absolutely perfect joints and be extremely careful not to get any debris into the lines. Use only the minimum amount of flux and make sure you don't get any into the system. I always install a liquid line filter/dryer unless the condensing unit comes with one built in.

[james_s]

I guess this is why DIY is "worth it", you are getting quite a good hourly rate for your efforts in some cases.  For example, working on my own cars, I "save" $100 an hour or more, compared to letting the mechanics at it.  Sometimes I do let the mechanics have at it, if the job requires a lift or other equipment that I don't want to invest in.

In the case of the split A/C installation, the difference of $6K seems a lot of money for an afternoon's work,  not really related to hourly pay?

If I billed myself hourly for my hobbies I'd be better off working for minimum wage. It's really not even about saving money for me, I mean saving money is nice but being able to look at a finished project and say "I did that!" is worth much more than any money saved. I also work on my own cars, in fact I've never taken a car to a mechanic in my life. From simple tuneups to major work like engine and transmission swaps I've always just done it. I've been fortunate enough to have friends with a forklift for heavy lifting.

[AaronLee]

I guess this is why DIY is "worth it", you are getting quite a good hourly rate for your efforts in some cases.  For example, working on my own cars, I "save" $100 an hour or more, compared to letting the mechanics at it.  Sometimes I do let the mechanics have at it, if the job requires a lift or other equipment that I don't want to invest in.

In the case of the split A/C installation, the difference of $6K seems a lot of money for an afternoon's work,  not really related to hourly pay?

If I billed myself hourly for my hobbies I'd be better off working for minimum wage. It's really not even about saving money for me, I mean saving money is nice but being able to look at a finished project and say "I did that!" is worth much more than any money saved. I also work on my own cars, in fact I've never taken a car to a mechanic in my life. From simple tuneups to major work like engine and transmission swaps I've always just done it. I've been fortunate enough to have friends with a forklift for heavy lifting.

James, I must say, in reading your various posts, you really are a Jack-of-all-trades. I mean that in a good and respectful way. Great for you that you have such a broad range of abilities, in this world of specialists. I often times think about how I'd like to expand my abilities more, but never seem to find the time, and whenever I do have a bit of time, I always end up spending it on things closely related to my career.