Author Topic: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.  (Read 633514 times)

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Offline TimFox

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #475 on: December 16, 2020, 07:46:00 pm »
I maintain the distinction between the singular datum (for one element of the set) and the plural data (for the complete set).  If the words were native English, and not Latin, would one say “The datums shows...”?
 
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Offline Labrat101

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #476 on: December 16, 2020, 08:14:10 pm »
Data is . Just a word that Humans use for the jumble of info.
That we have no idea where exactly where to put it .  :-//
Stick it into a Graph it looks impressive and no one has the courage to say  :wtf: is it .
A computer will convert it to Binary .  8)
 etc etc.   
There is insignificant data to complete this task !!
"   All Started With A BIG Bang!! .  .   & Magic Smoke  ".
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #477 on: December 16, 2020, 08:17:57 pm »
This all relates to my prime peeve about the evolution of language.
1.  Neologism, e.g., coining the word "transistor" to describe something new, is a sign of progress.
2.  Laziness, e.g., neglecting the difference between "infer" and "imply", is pernicious, since thereafter one cannot choose one of the two words carefully to make a distinction.
 
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Offline Labrat101

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #478 on: December 16, 2020, 08:27:22 pm »
I have another peeve that always make me laugh .
 Waze GPS . while driving  . A female voice saying .
" Police spotted a  Head " 
I always say to the wife Look out there's a head  on the road .  :o
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Offline TimFox

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #479 on: December 16, 2020, 08:33:07 pm »
I once knew a rabbit who wanted to get ahead, so he traded his head for a head of lettuce.  However, he ate the head of lettuce, so he really didn't get ahead, did he?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2020, 09:00:56 pm by TimFox »
 
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Offline KL27x

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #480 on: December 16, 2020, 09:15:37 pm »
Quote
It's = "it is"
From that direction it seems easy.
But when you actually need the word "its" is where I got hung up when I learned this in school.

"The bear scratched at its paw."

"Its" is a plainly weird word to me to this day. It sounds like a possessive. "It" being the bear.

"The bear scratched the bear's paw."
"The bear scratched it's paw."

5 yr old me found "its" to be strange. I still find it strange.

Its -->  It's

 :-+

I thought of an even better example.

Person 1: How's the kitten you rescued?

Person 2: It's drinking its/it's milk.

If "it" has milk, can "it" not drink "it's" milk, as in the milk that belongs to "it?"


 

Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #481 on: December 17, 2020, 12:14:36 am »
Data is . Just a word that Humans use for the jumble of info.
That we have no idea where exactly where to put it .  :-//
Stick it into a Graph it looks impressive and no one has the courage to say  :wtf: is it .
A computer will convert it to Binary .  8)
 etc etc.   
There is insignificant data to complete this task !!

It's only mass ignorance that has led "data" to become a "mass noun". I am pedantic and I am a scientist. But it isn't the combination of the two that leads me to use "data" exclusively as a plural noun and "datum" as the singular. It's because it is the right thing to do scientifically. So, I will correct people in a scientific setting. Outside of that, I just accept people are ignorant and play along.

"Resistor, transistor. Whatever. I'm just a hobbyist so I'll just start using the wrong terms. One day, at least one dictionary will give in."
 

Offline eugenenine

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #482 on: December 17, 2020, 12:43:12 am »
Then there are those who pronounce it data instead of data.
 
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Offline Non-Abelian

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #483 on: December 17, 2020, 02:12:57 am »
I maintain the distinction between the singular datum (for one element of the set) and the plural data (for the complete set).  If the words were native English, and not Latin, would one say “The datums shows...”?
Actually, as the old joke goes, the singular of data is anecdote.
That's not right - It's not even wrong - W. Pauli
 

Online PlainName

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #484 on: December 17, 2020, 02:46:04 am »
Quote
However, imagine this situation:

1. A scientist collects a large volume of data points into a spreadsheet.
2. At this point is it referred to as "This data is..." or as "These data are..."?
3. The spreadsheet is encrypted using a very secure algorithm.
4. At this point is it referred to as "This data is..." or as "These data are..."?
5. Somewhere in the middle of the file one byte is changed. Now the spreadsheet can't be decrypted.
6. At this point is it referred to as "This data is..." or as "These data are..."? No data points are available, as all the data points were formed into a unitary item.
7. Working backwards, apply the same reasoning to all versions of the spreadsheet.

Good examples of relevant questions. I would suggest that data is treated as singular or plural depending on context. If you are talking many individual points, for instance, then 'are' would be appropriate. But if you're talking a bunch of points en bloc then 'is' would make more sense. Which is how mass nouns are normally dealt with: we might catch a fish or land a whole load of fish, for example. The fish is, and the fish are.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 02:48:26 am by dunkemhigh »
 

Offline Tomorokoshi

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #485 on: December 17, 2020, 03:09:40 am »
Quote
However, imagine this situation:

1. A scientist collects a large volume of data points into a spreadsheet.
2. At this point is it referred to as "This data is..." or as "These data are..."?
3. The spreadsheet is encrypted using a very secure algorithm.
4. At this point is it referred to as "This data is..." or as "These data are..."?
5. Somewhere in the middle of the file one byte is changed. Now the spreadsheet can't be decrypted.
6. At this point is it referred to as "This data is..." or as "These data are..."? No data points are available, as all the data points were formed into a unitary item.
7. Working backwards, apply the same reasoning to all versions of the spreadsheet.

Good examples of relevant questions. I would suggest that data is treated as singular or plural depending on context. If you are talking many individual points, for instance, then 'are' would be appropriate. But if you're talking a bunch of points en bloc then 'is' would make more sense. Which is how mass nouns are normally dealt with: we might catch a fish or land a whole load of fish, for example. The fish is, and the fish are.

Recently, on a television report regarding Covid, the reporter said something like, "The amount of people with Covid has increased dramatically...", as opposed to, "The number of people with Covid has increased dramatically...".
 

Online PlainName

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #486 on: December 17, 2020, 04:13:17 am »
Yeah, like confusing fewer with less and similar. I'd forgive a live TV interviewer though - thinking about what they're saying probably comes quite a way down the list of attention grabbers :)
 

Offline Fixpoint

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #487 on: December 17, 2020, 09:49:42 am »
Quote
However, imagine this situation:
[...]

Good examples of relevant questions. I would suggest that data is treated as singular or plural depending on context. If you are talking many individual points, for instance, then 'are' would be appropriate. But if you're talking a bunch of points en bloc then 'is' would make more sense.

Well, you draw the right conclusion from a wrong premise. (See also my earlier reply above).

Tomorokoshi presented a wrong argument that stems from a logical fallacy. I shall present it in a more formal way so that it is clearer.

Let D = {d_1, ... d_n} be the data set we are talking about. Tomorokoshi's argument first talks about the individual d_i's and concludes that it is ok to say "these data are" because there are many of them (items 1 and 2 of the argument). So far, so good.

Then, in item 3, his argument shifts the subject of discussion from the individual d_i's to the set D. D is, of course, distinct from the individual d_i's; this follows from the mathematical definition of sets. Now, the error follows: The argument implies that it is ok to call the individual d_i's "this data is" because there is only exactly one D. That conclusion is wrong.

Because not all people are interested in mathematical arguments, let me use a non-mathematical analogy (but please note that it is only an analogy for illustration): I cannot say "there is 100 apple on this tree" just because there is only one tree. I have to say "there are 100 apples on this tree". Of course, it would be correct to say "there is a tree", it would be wrong to say "there are tree". You see, we just have to be clear what we are talking about: either the individual apples or the tree itself. The rest follows from that.

It's the same with data: Are we talking about D (the data set itself) or the individual records, the d_i's? It's that simple. The rest follows from that decision -- at least logically. Of course, you may choose to think non-logical.

In item 5 and item 6, complete and utter confusion follows. What is stated there has nothing to do whatsoever with the subject matter.

There is no clarity in the argument, everything gets mixed up. The fact that it is wrong is actually not the problem, but it throws multiple smoke grenades, and *that* is a problem. Talking about encryption using "a very secure algorithm", polls and losing half of a spreadsheet has nothing to do with the subject, it only obscures the matter and bedazzles the reader. If the argument had used plain logic instead of talking about spreadsheets, polls, and fancy encryption, everything would have been in plain sight and maybe the error would have not even be made because it would have been so simple to see it.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 10:00:01 am by Fixpoint »
 
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Offline DrG

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #488 on: December 17, 2020, 03:48:08 pm »
Dictionary dumfukery.

The word peruse means to examine carefully, to study, to read thoroughly. It was decided (by whom I do not know) that we should have a secondary meaning; to browse, to look over in a cursory manner. Clearly, chronic misuse, no matter how ridiculous, leads to an acceptable new definition.

We then invent a new class of word, a contronym, a word having two meanings that contradict one another. This to legitimize the madness.

Therefore, dumfukery also means brilliance.
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Offline TimFox

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #489 on: December 17, 2020, 04:33:02 pm »
And, as a result, when a careful writer intends one of those meanings and not the other, he cannot  use the single word and is forced to use the whole definition, e.g. “I carefully studied the data sheet”, to make his meaning clear.  Whereafter, we may as well delete the simpler word from our vocabulary.
 

Offline eugenenine

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #490 on: December 17, 2020, 06:15:16 pm »
I'm on calls with people from the .uk so I get to hear about dater all the time.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #491 on: December 17, 2020, 09:37:04 pm »
Dictionary dumfukery.

The word peruse means to examine carefully, to study, to read thoroughly. It was decided (by whom I do not know) that we should have a secondary meaning; to browse, to look over in a cursory manner. Clearly, chronic misuse, no matter how ridiculous, leads to an acceptable new definition.

We then invent a new class of word, a contronym, a word having two meanings that contradict one another. This to legitimize the madness.

Therefore, dumfukery also means brilliance.

Doublethink -  embrace it, be happy!
 

Online Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #492 on: December 18, 2020, 05:45:05 am »
The silly season.

No, really.
 >:(
iratus parum formica
 

Offline DrG

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #493 on: December 24, 2020, 04:25:00 pm »
Holiday Music.

They start in November and by now I am even sick of substituting the lyrics with pornographic versions. I think the Victorian Era folks had the right idea.



Bah Humbug  ;D
« Last Edit: December 24, 2020, 04:26:55 pm by DrG »
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Offline jfitzgerald

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #494 on: December 24, 2020, 05:17:13 pm »
When your computer time zone  is set to UTC, and the web site displays the time with AM and PM.   I am looking at you EEVBlog!
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Online Nominal Animal

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #495 on: December 24, 2020, 10:05:43 pm »
When your computer time zone  is set to UTC, and the web site displays the time with AM and PM.   I am looking at you EEVBlog!
Hey, it's only a default.  Use Profile > Summary, then Modify Profile > Look and Layout, and pick your preferred Time Format there.
 

Online PlainName

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #496 on: December 25, 2020, 05:29:34 am »
Nowt like that for me.
 

Offline DrG

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #497 on: December 25, 2020, 05:39:20 am »
Nowt like that for me.
It's there. Modify Profile - pull down menu - Look and Feel Layout
« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 05:41:14 am by DrG »
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Offline james_s

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #498 on: December 25, 2020, 06:42:04 am »
I was reminded of another peeve recently, entry forms that put every country on the planet in alphabetical order instead of guessing my location by my IP address and defaulting to where it thinks I am, or at least letting me type US in a search.
 
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Online PlainName

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Re: Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.
« Reply #499 on: December 25, 2020, 11:09:58 am »
Ah! Thank you!

I thought the highlight on 'Modify profile' denoted the page I'm looking at, not that it's a button to press  :palm:
 


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