Your best "Made in ..."?

[HighVoltage]

Festool is a really high end brand for tools in Germany.
All of them are supposedly designed and made in Germany.
Based on their quality and the 3 year warranty they offer, I would think that they are all made in Germany.
I have lots of Festool tools and really never had a problem with them except one time and they took care of my claim as one would expect from a good company in Germany.

On the other side, many Bosch hand tools these days are not made in Germany any more.

[Noise Floor]

Festool is a really high end brand for tools in Germany.
All of them are supposedly designed and made in Germany.
Based on their quality and the 3 year warranty they offer, I would think that they are all made in Germany.
I have lots of Festool tools and really never had a problem with them except one time and they took care of my claim as one would expect from a good company in Germany.

On the other side, many Bosch hand tools these days are not made in Germany any more.

Yeah, Bosch is my "go to" brand.  Most of the consumables are made in China, but I still find several of the power tools made in Germany or Switzerland. I'll keep my eyes peeled for more Festool on craigslist.

[HighVoltage]

These are some of the Festool high end customers

https://www.festool.de/Branchen/Automotive/Global/Pages/Service-Zentren.aspx

They are especially strong in the airplane repair industry.
Festool does not have the best in every category, but they are close

Another great German brand for these type of tools is FEIN
http://www.feinus.com/en_us/

[VK3DRB]

...Also, what about Taiwan? Technically it is China, but "Made in Taiwan" has a different ring to me than "Made in China".

Taiwan is the Republic of China where there is democracy and it is a developed first world country. They have a good education system and Taiwan produces some excellent home grown electronics technology. I trust Taiwanese made goods. In contrast, the People's Republic of China is a communist third world totalitarian state. Unlike Taiwan, the PRC has almost no innovation. What they do well is copy, steal, pollute, bribe and exploit cheap labour. Quality wise, there is no comparison. Just ask anyone who knows anything about machine shop tools such as lathes and milling machines.

[VK3DRB]

Colour TV set quality in design and component quality over the last 40 years...

Best: Made in Japan (eg: Sony, NEC, Panasonic)
Worst: Made in Europe (eg: Blaupunkt, Luxor)

The Blaupunkt sets were so unreliable, you could buy a published book in Australia on Blaupunkt faults. The dummkopfs who who designed Blaupunkt TV's had a habit of using underrated components in the TV. Moreover most continental European TV sets did not meet Australian safety standards. One TV technician in Queensland was electrocuted because a defective component shorted the live chassis to the antenna.

I bought a colour TV manufactured in Sydney in 1983 (National). It lasted 25 years without a hitch. I never took the back off except when I rejuvenated the picture tube near the end of its life. You would never get that reliability out of an European import. And it had an inbuilt isolation transformer for safety too. My in-laws bought a Japanese NEC TV in 1985. It is still running today and has never had the back taken off the set.

[Richard Crowley]

Taiwan is the Republic of China where there is democracy and it is a developed first world country. They have a good education system and Taiwan produces some excellent home grown electronics technology. I trust Taiwanese made goods. In contrast, the People's Republic of China is a communist third world totalitarian state. Unlike Taiwan, the PRC has almost no innovation. What they do well is copy, steal, pollute, bribe and exploit cheap labour. Quality wise, there is no comparison. Just ask anyone who knows anything about machine shop tools such as lathes and milling machines.

YES absolutely.  A WORLD of difference between Taiwan (ROC) and China (PRC).
x10 to everything VK3DRB said.   

Some of the most advanced high-tech companies outside the traditional "first world" are to be found in ROC and S.Korea.
To the point where they are eclipsing Japan these days.

I was trying to think of a true technical innovation that came out of China and I can't think of any.
To be sure they are experts at low-cost (read: exploitative) manufacturing.
But the designs came from (or were copied from) intellectual property from elsewhere.

[SeanB]

To be fair the Chinese invented agriculture, banking ,paper, paper money and taxation, along with merchant shipping. But that was a long time ago under different conditions and under an autocratic rule by a hereditary ( mostly ) king. OK not much has changed then.

[smjcuk]

One TV technician in Queensland was electrocuted because a defective component shorted the live chassis to the antenna.

To be fair the whole live chassis deal was rather stupid. It surprised me to learn about these design choices.

[SeanB]

Live chassis saved a lot of weight and space, as with a typical set using 400W plus having a transformer inside to supply isolated rails which were capable of 400W of power would involve a 5kg unit, which would have a large external field which would also need additional magnetic shielding, adding about the same mass again of Mumetal, and which would about double the cost of the basic set.

Using capacitors and more robust insulation negated this, and later sets used 2 mains rated capacitors in series with the antenna so that a single component failure would still not make the antenna live, or used a small toroidal transformer to couple the antenna signal in in some sets. The failure rate for these arrangements was about the same as for a transformer, and as houses typically did not have ground conductors in those days this carried on forward to having sets with no ground connection other than the requirement to ground the external antenna mast.

[ResR]

For me "Made in USSR" gives the most confidence, followed by Japan. Sanyo Eneloop rechargeable AA batteries are the best. I'm also testing cheap chinese SW pocket radio for reliability, so far one year later it works well so China is 3rd as they start to ramp up in quality for quite some products (my Optio E30 is made in china and it works well for 8 years apart from paint worn off the buttons).

Beer?  let the debates begin!

USA; no contest.

Saku Õlletehas, Estonia, beats it easily. 

[smjcuk]

Those eneloops are indeed awesome. Sanyo always knock out the best cells.

[BradC]

Sanyo always knock out the best cells.

You mean knocked? Sanyo of course being no more.

[coppice]

Sanyo always knock out the best cells.

You mean knocked? Sanyo of course being no more.

When people talk of Panasonic's leadership in batteries, its the Sanyo business, which Panasonic bought, that they are talking about. So, the Sanyo name has gone, but not their products.

[dannyf]

For me "Made in USSR" gives the most confidence,

I would agree. Their stuff was built like tanks.

[dannyf]

They have a good education system and Taiwan produces some excellent home grown electronics technology. I trust Taiwanese made goods.

You probably want to put your ideology aside, understand a little bit history of not just how Taiwan developed but also how Japan developed. For starters, "it's a sony" was a derogatory term for quite sometime.

[BradC]

When people talk of Panasonic's leadership in batteries, its the Sanyo business, which Panasonic bought, that they are talking about. So, the Sanyo name has gone, but not their products.

You'd like to think that, but look at the numerous reviews and tests that compare the old Made in Japan Eneloops vs the new Made in China units and you'll see a significant difference.

[jancumps]

[zapta]

We all know political discussions don't belong here and only lead to personal attacks. Maybe this time it can be avoided?

Once again Mojo Chan's wing man comes to the help and once again he ignores rule violations by his lead man.

[mtdoc]

We all know political discussions don't belong here and only lead to personal attacks. Maybe this time it can be avoided?

Once again Mojo Chan's wing man comes to the help and once again he ignores rule violations by his lead man.

Well,I guess that answers that question.

Clearly more beer is needed here. From my current locale. I had one of these last night. Not bad. Relax Bra 

[zapta]

We all know political discussions don't belong here and only lead to personal attacks. Maybe this time it can be avoided?

Once again Mojo Chan's wing man comes to the help and once again he ignores rule violations by his lead man.

Well,I guess that answers that question.

Clearly more beer is needed here. From my current locale. I had one of these last night. Not bad. Relax Bra 

Once again the wing man tries an evasion by spreading chaff.   

If you really care about the debate culture here, please don't apply it selectively.

[mtdoc]

Zapta,

Reread my post. My plea to avoid political discussion and personal attacks was not directed at anyone in particular.

Many of us (myself included) are guilty of occasionally making personal attacks within the context of arguing our points in a heated debate. But there are very few here (thankfully) who make posts that are purelly personal attacks with no content related to the debate at hand. Anyone reading this forum regularly can judge for themselves who they are.

My offer of a beer was sincere. I'd buy you one in person if you were here- well it's 8:18 am here so maybe this afternoon. Back to my conference....

Cheers.

[zapta]

Zapta,

Reread my post. My plea to avoid political discussion and personal attacks was not directed at anyone in particular.

I just did and it was a reply to a quote from dannyf even though there were previous political posts by Mojo Chan.

It's a repeating pattern, I observed it in other threads as well and wouldn't mention it otherwise. Your 'call for civility' is targeted at people that disagree with your politically. In a sense, this is an abuse of the forum's rules.

As for bear drinking, if the MT in your user name stands for Montana, we will give you a call next time we travel there. It's  a beautiful state.

[Tandy]

I don't care WHERE it is made, I care about HOW it is made. If a product is made down to a price then chances are it is going to be awful. Right from the outset money is being saved, you don't blow the budget on hiring a team of specialists to design the product, you do it yourself or hire the cheapest designer to do it. Next you look at the design and take out any bits that you think are too expensive. Now you employ the services of the cheapest factory you can find, who will take advantage of poor uneducated people who are worked until they are exhausted under horrible conditions. These people have no choice but to be there as without the job they would have nothing. They don't exactly have an incentive to use their initiative to identify ways of making a better product, they take their pittance of pay home and feed their family.

The opposite approach is to spend a fortune on hiring engineers and designers, the engineers will try and tweak everything until it is as technically perfect as they can get it, while the designers will shape it into a beautiful object that probably doesn't actually do anything useful, but looks nice. It will get manufactured in a factory with 7 layers of management, extensive health and safety regulations and workers unions. Meaning that labour to build the thing costs 10x the cost of the materials to make it. You end up with a product that costs a fortune but is highly unlikely to be worth the price tag.

IMHO the best products are those that are a compromise. Designed by a sensible person or team who recognise when something is not really necessary and where extra time, effort and money should be spent to improve things. Ideally I want a product that I can see has had some thought put into it, so it does what I expect of it at a reasonable price. I am happy to accept that my moderately priced item may have some limitations compared to top-of-the range items, but at the same time I don't want something that will fall apart because someone tried to save 20c by using a plastic clip instead of a metal one. I'd rather pay a little extra to get something useable.

The trouble is that is not how the market tends to work. On the one hand you have the business that competes on price, and we consumers all love a bargain so to remain competitive there is a race to the bottom. On the other there is a need to 'justify' the extra expense, by adding features that are useless to most, or putting some fancy designers name on it and making it trendy. Rarely do you get a product that is just pretty well made at a reasonable price, no matter what country it is made in.

[dannyf]

I don't care WHERE it is made, I care about HOW it is made.

To assess how it is made requires a lot more expertise than to assess where it is made.

That's why so many people equate where it is  made to how it is made.

[mtdoc]

Your 'call for civility' is targeted at people that disagree with your politically.

Nope. It's directed at everyone, including myself.

(BTW, despite you assumptions, my politics only partly overlap with mc's. They also partly overlap with yours).

As for bear drinking, if the MT in your user name stands for Montana, we will give you a call next time we travel there. It's  a beautiful state.

I used to live im MT, now I live in WA in the mountains. But I'm currently in HI.