Would you really sell on ebay ?

[Bud]

Fck the platform. I remember times when eBay fees were only 1 or 2 percent. Techinically nothing changed since then except for bureaucracy at eBay. It was WEB site before and it is still WEB site now. Why we pay way more now?

[james_s]

Fck the platform. I remember times when eBay fees were only 1 or 2 percent. Techinically nothing changed since then except for bureaucracy at eBay. It was WEB site before and it is still WEB site now. Why we pay way more now?

Because capitalism. They charge what the market will bear, same with nearly anything else.

[nctnico]

Fck the platform. I remember times when eBay fees were only 1 or 2 percent. Techinically nothing changed since then except for bureaucracy at eBay. It was WEB site before and it is still WEB site now. Why we pay way more now?

Because back then Ebay wasn't operating in a sustainable way. At some point there has to be a healthy return on investment. It goes like this will all start-ups. Sell at a low price to gain market share and then raise the prices to recoup the investments & start turning a profit. Nothing wrong with that for as long as people are willing to pay for the service.

[Simon]

I do rely on the photos to some degree and have been burned several times by Mouser using the wrong photo of a part. Digikey on the other hand has always shown the correct variant. IMO if the picture is not accurate then it is worse than having no picture at all, stock photos on ebay are less than useless. If there is no photo then I'll study the datasheet carefully and make sure the part number is exactly the variation I'm looking for, but if I studied the datasheet earlier and know there are a few different distinct styles of a part and I see the picture clearly shows the one I need then it's only natural to trust the photo. If you use a stock photo you had better say so very clearly otherwise you are sure to get returns.

So you are saying that based on the attached photo you would make engineering decisions?

Do you agree that the photo shows that this is a custom through hole package, it has 2 rows of pins, is sort of DIP like but clearly not standard and there is one sensor port (as it is not a differential sensor) that points up vertically?

Right, all of those attributes also apply to the actual part sold.

If we want to be pedantic, you can only see 6 pins in the picture! the photo does not guarantee that there are 8!

[SilverSolder]

At the end of the day if you are doing regular business you self insure to a degree. Again this is why I mark up eaby stuff, ebay is far more likely to yield problems than direct sales from my site so the ebay cohort get to pay the ebay share of self insurance.

That is the way to do it. When I sell something on Ebay I price it with the Ebay & Paypal fees added to the price.

Exactly, and as a buyer, I accept paying the higher price for something that I couldn't find without putting in even more effort than making the $ needed to pay those fees.

Compare with a local store selling something  -  you are paying their overheads and spending time going there and picking the item up  -  versus buying online, and having to pay the overhead of that process (intermediation fees and shipping, as well as seller overheads which may or may not be lower). 

[Mr. Scram]

Fck the platform. I remember times when eBay fees were only 1 or 2 percent. Techinically nothing changed since then except for bureaucracy at eBay. It was WEB site before and it is still WEB site now. Why we pay way more now?

Because they bought out the competition.

[SilverSolder]

It's the "drug dealer business model", get people hooked, then...  bang.

Remember when Youtube had no advertisements?   ....

[rsjsouza]

Fck the platform. I remember times when eBay fees were only 1 or 2 percent. Techinically nothing changed since then except for bureaucracy at eBay. It was WEB site before and it is still WEB site now. Why we pay way more now?

Because back then Ebay wasn't operating in a sustainable way. At some point there has to be a healthy return on investment. It goes like this will all start-ups. Sell at a low price to gain market share and then raise the prices to recoup the investments & start turning a profit. Nothing wrong with that for as long as people are willing to pay for the service.

Precisely. So many other outlets started to charge for access to their portals (news outlets, for example) and people complain but forget they need to pay the bills.

At the end of the day if you are doing regular business you self insure to a degree. Again this is why I mark up eaby stuff, ebay is far more likely to yield problems than direct sales from my site so the ebay cohort get to pay the ebay share of self insurance.

That is the way to do it. When I sell something on Ebay I price it with the Ebay & Paypal fees added to the price.

Exactly, and as a buyer, I accept paying the higher price for something that I couldn't find without putting in even more effort than making the $ needed to pay those fees.

Yes, but the common man is usually unaware of this. In another group there was someone complaining that a convenience store at a gas station was charging too much for a product that could be found at a nearby supermarket for less - I told them the reason is in the name: "convenience", but my explanation was received with a cold stare.

[SilverSolder]

[...]

[...] as a buyer, I accept paying the higher price for something that I couldn't find without putting in even more effort than making the $ needed to pay those fees.

Yes, but the common man is usually unaware of this. In another group there was someone complaining that a convenience store at a gas station was charging too much for a product that could be found at a nearby supermarket for less - I told them the reason is in the name: "convenience", but my explanation was received with a cold stare.

In my working life, I have dealt with professional buyers many times.  They are a pleasure to deal with:  you explain what your costs are, you are open about the profit margin you expect to make in order for this to be worthwhile to your company.  In turn they are open about what the price has to be in order for their business to make sense.  You do some toing and froing, and then the deal is done - afterwards, they don't whine and complain - everyone is happy, because a deal was hammered out that works for everyone.   If it was not possible to reach a deal - both sides walk away friends, until the next opportunity.

It is the "amateur buyers" that are the problem:  no understanding of structural costs, or the need for margins, and in many case no understanding of the product or even their own needs.  They will make poor decisions, enter into poor agreements, and then they will cry and whine like babies, blaming everone but themselves afterwards.   Come to think of it, this sounds like a lot of voters! 

[james_s]

Precisely. So many other outlets started to charge for access to their portals (news outlets, for example) and people complain but forget they need to pay the bills.

They made the mistake of making it free early on, offering all of their content and then everybody including me got in the mentality of expecting news to be free. Now when I find a news site that has a paywall I leave and go elsewhere to find the same news. I realize they have to pay the bills but I'm not sure how they can put that one back in the bag.

[rsjsouza]

(...)It is the "amateur buyers" that are the problem: (...)

Not only a lack of understanding but, depending on the culture, people tend to see profit as evil, which lends to the perception they are being taken advantage.

Precisely. So many other outlets started to charge for access to their portals (news outlets, for example) and people complain but forget they need to pay the bills.

They made the mistake of making it free early on, offering all of their content and then everybody including me got in the mentality of expecting news to be free. Now when I find a news site that has a paywall I leave and go elsewhere to find the same news. I realize they have to pay the bills but I'm not sure how they can put that one back in the bag.

Well, to be honest, in the beginning the costs of running an online operation were very low and it was probably perceived as a fad by the big news corporations. When the whole thing started to increase in dimension and smaller ventures were gaining ground, the large corporations saw themselves with a somewhat bleak perspective: either charge and shoo away people to other news organizations still running free or keep the free operation and try other means of revenue (ads, pop ups, etc.) - they even had agreements with ISPs providing services to their subscribers. The reality nowadays is that a great deal of these organizations are comprised of "journalists" that copy each other or always use the same news aggregator sites, thus dilluting the value of the news content.

[wraper]

Precisely. So many other outlets started to charge for access to their portals (news outlets, for example) and people complain but forget they need to pay the bills.

They made the mistake of making it free early on, offering all of their content and then everybody including me got in the mentality of expecting news to be free. Now when I find a news site that has a paywall I leave and go elsewhere to find the same news. I realize they have to pay the bills but I'm not sure how they can put that one back in the bag.

Considering that 99% of what's behind that paywall is just the same unverified copy/paste trash full of agenda to the brim, I see no reason to pay for it.

[Simon]

I do find the quality of ebay poor. The front end looks lovely for the customer, the back end for a seller is a mishmash of 2 or 3 different interface versions either borrowed from other ebay sites or they just could not be arsed to finish the job. It's a really poor show with bugs that I pointed out and that the acknowledged several years age still there.

[zzattack]

I'm absolutely appalled by the blatant robbery of the eBay+Paypal mafia, but yes, occassionaly I use it to sell stuff.

My latest sale incurred over 20% in fees. Breakdown:
 - Item sold for $1600, which would be about €1363.80 according to XE.com
 - Paypal took $62.70 for the transaction (3.9%)
 - With their unfavourable conversion rate, the withdrawable amount of the remaining $1537.30 equalled €1256.61
 - because of new seller, high risk bullshit, Paypal mafia holds the money for 21 days -- rather annoying but no further monetary loss
 - eBay commission is 10% over $160 + VAT (21% in my country), charged in euros, totalling up to an invoice for €168.66
I end up with €1087.95, so there's €275.85 lost in transaction fees, VAT, commission and conversion rates. This is 20.2%.

Rather outrageous, but so was my selling price. I did not expect to sell the item in the first place, much less for what I was asking.
I will likely 'feel forced' to use eBay again sometime in the future, and I will more than likely feel robbed again after calculating how much they took. But without them, there wouldn't be anything to take, and I'd be stuck with something I'd rather exchange for some monetary compensation.

[Simon]

I don't feel robbed, I just rob the customer in turn (and tell them) if more people did that their dominance would be less.

[SilverSolder]

(...)It is the "amateur buyers" that are the problem: (...)

Not only a lack of understanding but, depending on the culture, people tend to see profit as evil, which lends to the perception they are being taken advantage.

It was a revelation to travel in the Middle East when I was young...  The culture there is much more free about trading.  Sellers are expected to try to get the highest price, and buyers are expected to try to get the lowest price.  If you don't play the game, you are seen as an idiot that's giving your money away and they will happily take advantage of you.  Once I learned to play, the exchanges became much more pleasant, ending with cups of chai and pleasant chatter! 

Sometimes, I feel our Northern / Western culture just doesn't "get" the nature of a market...  we have a very suppressed notion of it.  Sellers of course try to get the best price, but surreptitiously...    our sellers display a "fixed price" that you are just expected to accept, the buyer's only choice is whether to buy or not.  Only if enough people don't buy, will seller lower the price.   It is normally not acceptable for Northern/Western buyers to haggle about the displayed price,  you instead have to reject that seller completely and find a different seller. 

The result is that the West is full of naive buyers, in particular, that distort the market prices for everything.  For example, would housing prices be as high as they are if it wasn't for masses of folks whose only limit to what they are willing to pay is what the bank is willing to lend them?   Similarly, would the average price of a new car in the US really be north of $36,000 if people weren't bending over too far?

People have the sense that they are being taken advantage of, and they are right -  what they don't see, is that it is their own fault!   Don't play the game if it is rigged against you...  Say no to going into debt for 5 years for a $36,000 car.   Don't buy a shitty 2 room apartment for lottery level money.  It isn't so hard! 

[james_s]

For the most part I hate haggling, just price the thing fairly and if it's worth it to me I will buy it.

Cars cost as much as they do because they are bloated. Features that once would have been considered extravagant luxury items are now standard on even the cheapest models and on top of that there is a massive and ever growing bucket list of mandated features it must have. Take as an example the 1982 VW Rabbit a friend of mine has, it's a very basic vehicle, no frills, no fancy tech, pretty close to the bare minimum that is needed for a reasonably comfortable car, costing only a few thousand dollars when new but here we are almost 40 years later and it's still going. You couldn't sell a new car like that now, it would have to have to be completely redesigned, it would need thousands of dollars in safety equipment, thousands more in electronics for engine management, buyers would (ostensibly) expect power windows, power seats, power mirrors, power locks, power moonroof, climate control, heated seats, 8 speaker sound system, infotainment, bluetooth,  etc adding hundreds or even thousands of pounds of weight and many thousands of dollars to the price. There's just no way to offer a low cost basic car anymore even if many people would be happy to buy one. At least there is still the option of a motorcycle to circumvent much of this.

There is also something to the people spending as much as the bank will loan them thing you mention. I have encountered a shocking number of people who make purchase decisions not on the total amount they will pay for an item but the amount that the purchase will add to their monthly credit card payments. If not for mortgages there is no way the average house price around here would be pushing up towards $1M, I suspect the situation would be greatly advantageous to people like myself who think long term and are able to save up money.

[SilverSolder]

I would argue that cars are bloated in an attempt to justify why they need to cost so much!  -  so the "naive consumer" thinks they are getting tens of thousands of dollars worth of advanced gear,  when any engineer knows that these "features" don't actually cost very much to implement in a mass production environment.

I'm not against cars becoming more comfortable, safer, and better equipped...   but $36K average price,  seriously??   Especially when you consider that many of the models are sold world wide, in some markets at a much lower price...   guess what, the car makers ALWAYS make money, even when they sell at low prices!

A lot of the safety features are just purely carving up the market, like DVD Regions!  E.g. is a Canadian car really unsafe in the USA and vice versa?  "The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) has advised that vehicles made in Canada for the Canadian market, U.S. manufactured vehicles originally intended for the Canadian market, or other foreign made vehicles available for the Canadian market may not meet the requirements of the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act (and the policies and regulations adopted as a result of this Act) and EPA emission standards."  - according to the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation.    This may be technically true, but if you think there is any real and significant difference between the cars I have a bridge I'd like to sell you! 

All it is, is a ready made excuse for cars being much, much cheaper in other markets...   and so, we end up with the highest price that a penned-off market of naive buyers will bear!

[rsjsouza]

From the places I know and lived, cars (just like gasoline) are dirt cheap in the US. Used cars are even cheaper.

[james_s]

I once bought a car for $500 and drove it for 17 years. I'd still be driving it today if not for a semi truck rear ending me and totaling it. I bought the wagon version to replace it, this time costing me $2500 but still a lot cheaper than a new car. I'd buy every one I could get my hands on if I had a place to store them because I really love the station wagon format and that seems to have been completely replaced by the stupid crossover design. It's the spork of vehicles, replacing sedans, wagons and small SUVs with something that tries to be everything at once. They're much taller and bulkier on the exterior and yet manage to have less interior space and roughly the same ground clearance as my wagon. I don't see myself ever buying a brand new car, I'm happy to let some other person take the $25k depreciation hit and break it in for me.

[rsjsouza]

(...) I really love the station wagon format and that seems to have been completely replaced by the stupid crossover design. It's the spork of vehicles, replacing sedans, wagons and small SUVs with something that tries to be everything at once. (...)

I hear you; back in 2012 I had to replace my fun coupe with a larger car (to accommodate a growing family) and didn't want to have a second big car (my wife's car is a large Mazda CX9). I opted for a Subaru Outback 2.4L that not only is a very roomy Station Wagon, but it does excellent mileage.

[klunkerbus]

I used to almost always have some odd or end thing listed for sale  on eBay, but I rarely do anymore.  It takes time to prepare a good listing.  Yes, the fees can be high unless you wait for one of the ongoing seller incentives with reduced fees.  Terms and conditions have evolved to where the buyer has more protection than the seller does - it used to be the other way around.  Shipping is expensive and a PIA to deal with, and I won't go the free shipping route. If eBay corporate wants me to offer free shipping, they can pay me for the cost to ship. After all, I as a personal seller am not Amazon.  If and when I list anything, I try to make sure the item is only visible to US-buyers. Why? Because that's where I am, and last I checked PayPal protection didn't apply on international sales and shipping internationally is an even greater PIA. 

In a nutshell, it's hard to make much profit selling on eBay, especially after factoring my time involved in listing, monitoring, packing, shipping, etc.  I usually have to have some motivation other than profit to sell an item. Maybe it's a hard to find item and I know someone can appreciate it.  Maybe I don't just want to landfill or donate the item. 

[peter-h]

Ebay is great for getting rid of stuff you don't want and which would otherwise rot on a shelf and eventually be worth absolutely nothing.

OK you lose 20% but so what?

Right now I have about 10 items listed for sale. Most will sell eventually. There is no penalty for waiting.

For doing actual business, both Ebay and Amazon are tricky. Let's say there are 3 versions of your product. A cheap one $5, a middle one $10, and a high quality one $20. And your business is in the last one. The site will present a prospective buyer with "you may also be interested in" and the the cheaper ones. Most people are too thick to think about it, so you have just (a) lost a sale and (b) done some free advertising for the other two. So these platforms work only if you are doing the $5 one. And obviously you need to build in hefty margins, especially if using Amazon's fulfilment service, but that's true for any distributor arrangement. If you make premium quality stuff you won't get sales via these platforms. You have to find other channels.

[HighVoltage]

I am still buying on ebay but selling has almost come to a complete still stand for me because of too many problems with stupid or idiot buyers or some buyers that have intent to screw the seller. It has become redicules over the years.

10 years ago, ebay was fun to sell.
Today it sucks for sellers!

About 6 month ago I sold a brand new original item for around 200 Euro on eBay germany.
The seller claimed it was bad and wanted his money back.
I told him that he would have to send me the part back and then I will decide.
He called Paypal and got his money back right away.
Then he gave me negative feedback on top.
So, I ended up with no item anymore and no money and a negative feedback.
Just because the buyer wanted it this way.

Ebay has become a buyer's market only from my experience.
 

[Simon]

If you make premium quality stuff you won't get sales via these platforms. You have to find other channels.

Which is where I am at, if people want one of Daves meters or they want a probe master probe "they want that one", i am not in the market of competing with cheap chinese meters or other probe makers, people buy from me because of what I sell, not because of how much I sell it for.