Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

[bd139]

It has some validity outside the described conditions. You have to breath more often and harder with a respirator to maintain o2 sats. This is an issue with various conditions that affect lung capacity.  Normal healthy folk, non issue.

But you know, those folk should be shielding.

Masks, not so much of an issue.

[Simon]

It's a problem for a small number of people who should not be going out at all, and that is not even where the theory started, it started from dumb retards who can't think straight with or without a suffocating mask and all the oxygen they need.

[paulca]

It's a problem for a small number of people who should not be going out at all, and that is not even where the theory started, it started from dumb retards who can't think straight with or without a suffocating mask and all the oxygen they need.

I think we should tell them that the only reason these masks are proposed is that the Bill Gates, 5G can get through them.  They should instead use a plastic bag over the mouth and nose or better yet cover their hole head in tinfoil and seal it up with tight tape round their neck.

[SilverSolder]

It's a problem for a small number of people who should not be going out at all, and that is not even where the theory started, it started from dumb retards who can't think straight with or without a suffocating mask and all the oxygen they need.

I think we should tell them that the only reason these masks are proposed is that the Bill Gates, 5G can get through them.  They should instead use a plastic bag over the mouth and nose or better yet cover their hole head in tinfoil and seal it up with tight tape round their neck.

I don't think we are far away from seeing tactics like this coming into use - a bit like a mother "managing" an obstinate child...

[Zero999]

It has some validity outside the described conditions. You have to breath more often and harder with a respirator to maintain o2 sats. This is an issue with various conditions that affect lung capacity.  Normal healthy folk, non issue.

But you know, those folk should be shielding.

Masks, not so much of an issue.

It's a problem for a small number of people who should not be going out at all, and that is not even where the theory started, it started from dumb retards who can't think straight with or without a suffocating mask and all the oxygen they need.

If the mask gets too damp, then it will become harder to breathe, but it should be changed by then.

I agree, anyone who can't wear a mask, due to an underlying health problem should stay in, but if they must go shopping, they should wear a visor, which provides more COVID-19 protection than a surgical mask, or scarf. There's no excuse for not wearing a face covering.

I wonder if motorcycle helmets are an acceptable face covering? Shops have tended to deny those wearing them entry, for security reasons, but a helmet, with screen and visor, will provide good protection both against spreading and contracting COVID-19, so should be acceptable. When the law comes into force, I'll try wearing a motocycle helmet in my local shop. If I really wanted to shoplift, I'd disguise myself as a Muslim woman, rather than wear a helmet.

[PlainName]

should wear a visor, which provides more COVID-19 protection than a surgical mask

I noticed that many people wear these visors instead of masks, often at an angle such that it barely comes level with their chin, and wonder how on earth that's providing any protection for the wearer or whoever they are projectile-breathing at. Can you explain?

[Ed.Kloonk]

should wear a visor, which provides more COVID-19 protection than a surgical mask

I noticed that many people wear these visors instead of masks, often at an angle such that it barely comes level with their chin, and wonder how on earth that's providing any protection for the wearer or whoever they are projectile-breathing at. Can you explain?

I can't explain, since unlike some, I'm not so smug to consider myself an expert following a twitter visit. 

Go to a Men's Shed or similar and operate a metal grinder. Learn the power of hard protection.

[Zero999]

should wear a visor, which provides more COVID-19 protection than a surgical mask

I noticed that many people wear these visors instead of masks, often at an angle such that it barely comes level with their chin, and wonder how on earth that's providing any protection for the wearer or whoever they are projectile-breathing at. Can you explain?

As with any form of protection, it needs to be approprately fitted and depends on the person using it properly.

Nothing is certain with CV19 and opinions vary considerably, but after Googling for a bit, the consensus seems to be: a visor appears to provide more protection for the user, than a mask, but isn't as effective at preventing the user spreading the virus. It helps to protect the wearer's eyes from virus-laden droplets and should also reduce spread to some degree by reducing the momentum of a cough or sneeze, but the bottom is still open, so some of it will fall onto objects below.

Ideally people should wear both a visor and a mask, but if someone can't wear the mask, then they should wear a visor. I would think a long visor, extending well below the chin and a scarf around the neck, to fill the gap, even if it doesn't cover the face, would also provide more protection to others, by stopping droplets from falling on surfaces below.

I think my motorcycle helmet will protect me more than a mask and should also do a decent job of preventing me spread it, as it's well-fitted and there's some fabrick under the chin. Lots of this seems to be common sense.

[Ed.Kloonk]

should wear a visor, which provides more COVID-19 protection than a surgical mask

I noticed that many people wear these visors instead of masks, often at an angle such that it barely comes level with their chin, and wonder how on earth that's providing any protection for the wearer or whoever they are projectile-breathing at. Can you explain?

As with any form of protection, it needs to be approprately fitted and depends on the person using it properly.

Nothing is certain with CV19 and opinions vary considerably, but after Googling for a bit, the consensus seems to be: a visor appears to provide more protection for the user, than a mask, but isn't as effective at preventing the user spreading the virus. It helps to protect the wearer's eyes from virus-laden droplets and should also reduce spread to some degree by reducing the momentum of a cough or sneeze, but the bottom is still open, so some of it will fall onto objects below.

Ideally people should wear both a visor and a mask, but if someone can't wear the mask, then they should wear a visor. I would think a long visor, extending well below the chin and a scarf around the neck, to fill the gap, even if it doesn't cover the face, would also provide more protection to others, by stopping droplets from falling on surfaces below.

I think my motorcycle helmet will protect me more than a mask and should also do a decent job of preventing me spread it, as it's well-fitted and there's some fabrick under the chin. Lots of this seems to be common sense.

It all depends how you keep your hands away from these barriers.

[Zero999]

should wear a visor, which provides more COVID-19 protection than a surgical mask

I noticed that many people wear these visors instead of masks, often at an angle such that it barely comes level with their chin, and wonder how on earth that's providing any protection for the wearer or whoever they are projectile-breathing at. Can you explain?

As with any form of protection, it needs to be approprately fitted and depends on the person using it properly.

Nothing is certain with CV19 and opinions vary considerably, but after Googling for a bit, the consensus seems to be: a visor appears to provide more protection for the user, than a mask, but isn't as effective at preventing the user spreading the virus. It helps to protect the wearer's eyes from virus-laden droplets and should also reduce spread to some degree by reducing the momentum of a cough or sneeze, but the bottom is still open, so some of it will fall onto objects below.

Ideally people should wear both a visor and a mask, but if someone can't wear the mask, then they should wear a visor. I would think a long visor, extending well below the chin and a scarf around the neck, to fill the gap, even if it doesn't cover the face, would also provide more protection to others, by stopping droplets from falling on surfaces below.

I think my motorcycle helmet will protect me more than a mask and should also do a decent job of preventing me spread it, as it's well-fitted and there's some fabrick under the chin. Lots of this seems to be common sense.

It all depends how you keep your hands away from these barriers.

A visor should do a better job of preventing someone from touching their face, than a mask, which will harbour the virus, when it becomes damp.

I'm not sure if that makes that much difference though. It's true, people touching their mouthes and noses helps spred the virus and was originally believed to be the main mode of transmission, but now droplets suspended in the air is thought to be more likely.

[Ed.Kloonk]

should wear a visor, which provides more COVID-19 protection than a surgical mask

I noticed that many people wear these visors instead of masks, often at an angle such that it barely comes level with their chin, and wonder how on earth that's providing any protection for the wearer or whoever they are projectile-breathing at. Can you explain?

As with any form of protection, it needs to be approprately fitted and depends on the person using it properly.

Nothing is certain with CV19 and opinions vary considerably, but after Googling for a bit, the consensus seems to be: a visor appears to provide more protection for the user, than a mask, but isn't as effective at preventing the user spreading the virus. It helps to protect the wearer's eyes from virus-laden droplets and should also reduce spread to some degree by reducing the momentum of a cough or sneeze, but the bottom is still open, so some of it will fall onto objects below.

Ideally people should wear both a visor and a mask, but if someone can't wear the mask, then they should wear a visor. I would think a long visor, extending well below the chin and a scarf around the neck, to fill the gap, even if it doesn't cover the face, would also provide more protection to others, by stopping droplets from falling on surfaces below.

I think my motorcycle helmet will protect me more than a mask and should also do a decent job of preventing me spread it, as it's well-fitted and there's some fabrick under the chin. Lots of this seems to be common sense.

It all depends how you keep your hands away from these barriers.

A visor should do a better job of preventing someone from touching their face, than a mask, which will harbour the virus, when it becomes damp.

I'm not sure if that makes that much difference though. It's true, people touching their mouthes and noses helps spred the virus and was originally believed to be the main mode of transmission, but now droplets suspended in the air is thought to be more likely.

You touch the outside of the visor to lift it up. The first thing you do is rub yer nose. Bingo.

[maginnovision]

I wonder if motorcycle helmets are an acceptable face covering? Shops have tended to deny those wearing them entry, for security reasons, but a helmet, with screen and visor, will provide good protection both against spreading and contracting COVID-19, so should be acceptable.

We already have mask laws here and the couple of times I've been places I haven't taken my helmet(with chin curtain installed) off and I haven't had any problems. Nobody says anything. However, when I took a walk with my kids without a mask(it was an impromptu walk when we were already playing outside our home) I walked by the police station and parked police cars with police inside and nobody said anything then either. I guess it depends on how strongly enforced it all is. If they go full authoritarian you'll probably need a mask with your head isolated in a helmet.

[PlainName]

Learn the power of hard protection

Floating aerosols aren't even a little bit like shit thrown off a grinder or whatever. Would a visor be OK to stop your lungs filling with sawdust? Of course not.

[PlainName]

It helps to protect the wearer's eyes from virus-laden droplets

That was my initial thought, and why medical professionals wear them, and why they are a useful additions to masks. But my puzzlement is where they are used on their own - airflow is just going to go around the sides.

I think my motorcycle helmet will protect me more than a mask

Would it protect you from sawdust in a workshop? Briefly, I would suggest.

[dietert1]

Rather than fantasy: When you pass by a lady and sense her perfume, you know she may have infected you. That is the meaning of "aerosol". Now you have a simple test for whatever you want to use.
Glasses are useful for checking how air-proof the mask is around the nose. The masks my wife made have a strong metal wire to keep the gaps closed that tend to form on both sides of the nose. That was my contribution..

Regards, Dieter

[tom66]

Another factor is viral dose.

For other viruses it is not generally sufficient to only get 1 or 2 viral particles to cause an infection.  It is not known if SARS-CoV-2 is different, but it seems unlikely.  You need to get a relatively moderate dose in order to enable the infection to spread.  And, if you get a smaller dose, you are more likely to experience a milder illness. The theory here is that the virus has to spend longer in the body before it spreads to a more critical mass, by which time the immune system has time to fight it off.  If you have a much larger dose, which has sadly happened to many healthcare workers without adequate PPE, then the virus hits you hard and fast, before your immune system has time to respond.

And this is where the mask helps - even if you are not completely shielded from the virus, it significantly reduces the chances of you getting a serious dose, and it also reduces asymptomatic spread.

WHO has a lot of questions to answer over why they advised against masks though.

[james_s]

WHO has a lot of questions to answer over why they advised against masks though.

I think that's obvious. It was not known at the time whether masks were going to be of much benefit to people on the street, but they did know that there was a struggle to get enough masks and other PPE for vital healthcare workers. If you can't get enough for healthcare workers then the last thing you want is people hoarding masks and wearing them around needlessly.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

 

[Zero999]

should wear a visor, which provides more COVID-19 protection than a surgical mask

I noticed that many people wear these visors instead of masks, often at an angle such that it barely comes level with their chin, and wonder how on earth that's providing any protection for the wearer or whoever they are projectile-breathing at. Can you explain?

As with any form of protection, it needs to be approprately fitted and depends on the person using it properly.

Nothing is certain with CV19 and opinions vary considerably, but after Googling for a bit, the consensus seems to be: a visor appears to provide more protection for the user, than a mask, but isn't as effective at preventing the user spreading the virus. It helps to protect the wearer's eyes from virus-laden droplets and should also reduce spread to some degree by reducing the momentum of a cough or sneeze, but the bottom is still open, so some of it will fall onto objects below.

Ideally people should wear both a visor and a mask, but if someone can't wear the mask, then they should wear a visor. I would think a long visor, extending well below the chin and a scarf around the neck, to fill the gap, even if it doesn't cover the face, would also provide more protection to others, by stopping droplets from falling on surfaces below.

I think my motorcycle helmet will protect me more than a mask and should also do a decent job of preventing me spread it, as it's well-fitted and there's some fabrick under the chin. Lots of this seems to be common sense.

It all depends how you keep your hands away from these barriers.

A visor should do a better job of preventing someone from touching their face, than a mask, which will harbour the virus, when it becomes damp.

I'm not sure if that makes that much difference though. It's true, people touching their mouthes and noses helps spred the virus and was originally believed to be the main mode of transmission, but now droplets suspended in the air is thought to be more likely.

You touch the outside of the visor to lift it up. The first thing you do is rub yer nose. Bingo.

But that's not something one would do unconsciously. The visor will mean it takes more effort to touch ones face, so it would reduce the frequency them doing it.

It helps to protect the wearer's eyes from virus-laden droplets

That was my initial thought, and why medical professionals wear them, and why they are a useful additions to masks. But my puzzlement is where they are used on their own - airflow is just going to go around the sides.

But it will protect against a direct hit to the face, which is more important. Imagine someone squirting you in the face, with a water pistol. You'll get much more water in your eyes and mouth without a visor, than you would if you wore one.

I think my motorcycle helmet will protect me more than a mask

Would it protect you from sawdust in a workshop? Briefly, I would suggest.

I'd suspect the helmet I have would provide quite a bit of protection against sawdust, for an extended period. It would certainly reduce the level of exposure.

Another factor is viral dose.

For other viruses it is not generally sufficient to only get 1 or 2 viral particles to cause an infection.  It is not known if SARS-CoV-2 is different, but it seems unlikely.  You need to get a relatively moderate dose in order to enable the infection to spread.  And, if you get a smaller dose, you are more likely to experience a milder illness. The theory here is that the virus has to spend longer in the body before it spreads to a more critical mass, by which time the immune system has time to fight it off.  If you have a much larger dose, which has sadly happened to many healthcare workers without adequate PPE, then the virus hits you hard and fast, before your immune system has time to respond.

And this is where the mask helps - even if you are not completely shielded from the virus, it significantly reduces the chances of you getting a serious dose, and it also reduces asymptomatic spread.

WHO has a lot of questions to answer over why they advised against masks though.

Exactly. Getting infected isn't binary.

[PlainName]

<Anonymous YouTube link>

 

Neat! Took you about 10 seconds to post that, and in return you expect me (not to mention everyone else) to waste more than 5 minutes viewing it. But it's worth it because... well, why?

What is it about?
What point is he going to make?
Who the hell is he?
Why should his opinion on whatever it is be relevant or meaningful?

Assuming all the above are attention-grabbing, why do we have to waste 5 minutes watching a video to understand whatever it is he's wibbling on about instead of, say, you posting a 3-line precis we can cover in a few seconds. Oh, that's right, it would waste your time rather than ours.

[Ed.Kloonk]

<Anonymous YouTube link>

 

Neat! Took you about 10 seconds to post that, and in return you expect me (not to mention everyone else) to waste more than 5 minutes viewing it. But it's worth it because... well, why?

What is it about?
What point is he going to make?
Who the hell is he?
Why should his opinion on whatever it is be relevant or meaningful?

Assuming all the above are attention-grabbing, why do we have to waste 5 minutes watching a video to understand whatever it is he's wibbling on about instead of, say, you posting a 3-line precis we can cover in a few seconds. Oh, that's right, it would waste your time rather than ours.

It's not a tutorial on how to mince words, I can tell you that much.

[Buriedcode]

Why are most assuming that wearing a mask is about protecting the wearer from infection? When it is far more important in preventing the wearer potentially spreading the virus...
Your "risk" isn't entirely down to your actions, a fair chunk of it is how others behave, and likewise, their risk, is at least partly down to your behavior. 

[PlainName]

Why are most assuming that wearing a mask is about protecting the wearer from infection?

Because protecting others from oneself is an alien concept¹. At least, if it involves any more than slight hassle it is. Given that, why else would anyone wear one but to protect themselves? Ergo, masks protect the wearer.

Add to that the fact that masks are normally seen in medical establishments, and the assumption there has to be it protects the medical professionals. So, masks obviously protect the wearer.

Which they do, of course. The real question is: by how much. It might not be very much at all, but every little helps

[1] Thought experiment: you've been notified that you were associated with someone who subsequently tested positive. The correct thing to do is to self-isolate for 10 days, but doing so will cause you serious aggro - you won't get paid and you might lose your job because of the time off. Do you, nevertheless, self-isolate or justify not doing that because you feel fine and promise to hold your breath when speaking to anyone anyway?

[maginnovision]

Easy for me I'm not allowed to work anyway. I also wear R95 masks that fit so should have both way protection. I get tested soon for COVID since I need a negative result to get VO2 max so time will tell if it has worked(or if I haven't been around enough people with COVID).

[Zero999]

I wonder if motorcycle helmets are an acceptable face covering? Shops have tended to deny those wearing them entry, for security reasons, but a helmet, with screen and visor, will provide good protection both against spreading and contracting COVID-19, so should be acceptable.

We already have mask laws here and the couple of times I've been places I haven't taken my helmet(with chin curtain installed) off and I haven't had any problems. Nobody says anything. However, when I took a walk with my kids without a mask(it was an impromptu walk when we were already playing outside our home) I walked by the police station and parked police cars with police inside and nobody said anything then either. I guess it depends on how strongly enforced it all is. If they go full authoritarian you'll probably need a mask with your head isolated in a helmet.

It might also depend on the situation. There's little point in wearing a mask outside, unless it's crowded, but it's more important indoors. I don't wear one outside and the law which is going to come into force at the end of the week, in the UK, will only apply to shops. If mask wearing outdoors, as well as indoors, is compulsory where you live, they're probably less likely to enforce it outside, especially if you're not in a crowd.

Why are most assuming that wearing a mask is about protecting the wearer from infection?

Because protecting others from oneself is an alien concept¹. At least, if it involves any more than slight hassle it is. Given that, why else would anyone wear one but to protect themselves? Ergo, masks protect the wearer.

Add to that the fact that masks are normally seen in medical establishments, and the assumption there has to be it protects the medical professionals. So, masks obviously protect the wearer.

Which they do, of course. The real question is: by how much. It might not be very much at all, but every little helps

I think most people are aware that face coverings are to protect others, rather than the wearer.

Medical professionals don't wear surgical masks to protect themselves, but their patients.

[1] Thought experiment: you've been notified that you were associated with someone who subsequently tested positive. The correct thing to do is to self-isolate for 10 days, but doing so will cause you serious aggro - you won't get paid and you might lose your job because of the time off. Do you, nevertheless, self-isolate or justify not doing that because you feel fine and promise to hold your breath when speaking to anyone anyway?

Fortunately that's not the case for me, as I'd get sick pay, but it is for many people. Attitudes also change. If you'd asked me that four months ago, I would have said no. I only self-isolated when I got a cought before lockdown, because my team leader told me not to come in the following day. Now I would still self-isolate, even if I lost a considerable amount of money, because I know it's the right thing to do.