Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

[paulca]

It plays in a lot, but the largest generation (still) are the boomers.  The millennial generation was quite small.

The millennial generation wasn't small, it's just that the boomer generation was huge. Not anymore. Enough boomers have died off that millennials took the numerical lead last year, at least in the US. Boomers are still the larger voting block, simply because a higher percentage of them actually vote, but time will change that too, soon enough. If you combine Millennials with Gen X and voting-age Gen Z, they easily outnumber the boomer and remaining silent generation.

If we can present them something to vote for... and kick them on their arse to get out to vote.

[Ed.Kloonk]

As a software engineer I fear I may be sat on a step having watched lots of industries fall harshly

Well, while you're navel gazing, think about whose fault all this really is.  (not saying it's you, btw)

, now dangling my feet over that edge my smile is fading.

Life is like driving a truck. There's a hill ahead? Start thinking about switching gears before the engine stalls.

Some of you might have heard about economic recovery forecast graphs. And the assigned letter of the alphabet that corresponds to how speculators think things will go.

Some suggest it will be a 'V' recovery. Some think it will be an "L" 

An interesting one that's just come out is the "K" recovery.

That means they think that the economy will dimorph. Some things that are allowed to prosper will go gangbusters. Other things, not so much.

The question is, which horse are you going to ride?

[paulca]

The question is, which horse are you going to ride?

I'm a software engineer.  I make everything work.  Bitches.     

[Ed.Kloonk]

The question is, which horse are you going to ride?

I'm a software engineer.  I make everything work.  Bitches.     

Where were you in my scope firmware thread?
 

[james_s]

Doesn't population growth factor into it?  There is only so much land...

Yeah, what we need is something like a global pandemic to thin them out a bit.

The thing is, even under catastrophic conditions covid would wipe out "only" around 1% of the population. That's a staggering number of lives on an individual level, but a 1% reduction is not exactly going to alleviate overpopulation.

[james_s]

It extremely relevant to an electronics forum, as I am starting to hear from more and more hardware and software engineers who are now searching for a job in a terrible market. The past one or two weeks seems to have been the crunch point where many people have moved from working at home or furloughed, to laid off.

I would try to stay optimistic. It is a temporary situation, even though we cannot really see the light at the end of the tunnel yet. Lingering effects will likely drag on for years, perhaps a decade or more but prosperity will gradually return. We made it through the two dot-com busts, the housing/banking crisis and other smaller downturns. There will be a lot of people looking for jobs, but there are also likely to be a lot of unemployed people founding new companies as things start to improve. Opportunities will rise from the rubble.

[bd139]

Software (business/financial) market is fine here in UK. In fact we can't get anyone and have had to hire in a shit load of contractors. 

[PlainName]

even under catastrophic conditions covid would wipe out "only" around 1% of the population

Just a practice run to fine-tune things.

[Zero999]

Doesn't population growth factor into it?  There is only so much land...

Yeah, what we need is something like a global pandemic to thin them out a bit.

The thing is, even under catastrophic conditions covid would wipe out "only" around 1% of the population. That's a staggering number of lives on an individual level, but a 1% reduction is not exactly going to alleviate overpopulation.

I think people are more worried about the long term health effects, more than deaths now.

The fertility rate is below the replacement rate in many western countries and it will become that way in many developing countries, in the near future, so we're in for more of a population crash, than overpopulation.

[coppice]

Software (business/financial) market is fine here in UK. In fact we can't get anyone and have had to hire in a shit load of contractors. 

Have you considered paying them well? Recruitment never seems to be a problem when the price is right, as attested by your ability to find contractors. 

[james_s]

I think people are more worried about the long term health effects, more than deaths now.

The fertility rate is below the replacement rate in many western countries and it will become that way in many developing countries, in the near future, so we're in for more of a population crash, than overpopulation.

It will take 60-100 years before that really starts to be noticeable. It is going to be an unpleasant but very necessary adjustment, at over 7 Billion and growing there are way too many humans and nature is going to make some adjustments since we have not. The earth cannot sustain anywhere near that many people at a typical Western standard of living. What we have now is simply not sustainable, with any system that relies on infinite expansion on a finite planet it's ultimately going to be time to pay the piper.

Also a lot could happen between now and then. We could easily have one or more major world wars, nations could collapse or be conquered, there is a non-zero chance of some major world restructuring and/or catastrophic events that could completely change the course.

[james_s]

Have you considered paying them well? Recruitment never seems to be a problem when the price is right, as attested by your ability to find contractors. 

Or offer other perks. My employer doesn't pay all that great, but they offered flexible hours, work from home even prior to Covid, "unlimited" PTO which means essentially that as long as your work gets done you can just take time off whenever you need it. All in all it's been a very low stress environment where I'm given a tremendous amount of freedom to manage myself, own my areas and handle them as I see fit. When I first joined it sounded rather chaotic but being generally self motivated it has been a really good fit for me and quite a few other smart people.

[EEVblog]

Or offer other perks. My employer doesn't pay all that great, but they offered flexible hours, work from home even prior to Covid, "unlimited" PTO which means essentially that as long as your work gets done you can just take time off whenever you need it.

Altium used to have free food (breakfast, lunch, and dinner), make your own hours, free gym membership, free car washing, free concierge errand service (i.e. get someone to go to the shop to buy something for you etc) and other stuff. Still couldn't get staff because of the shitty location, probably the worst spot in Sydney for a tech company.

[bd139]

Software (business/financial) market is fine here in UK. In fact we can't get anyone and have had to hire in a shit load of contractors. 

Have you considered paying them well? Recruitment never seems to be a problem when the price is right, as attested by your ability to find contractors. 

Our pay is top notch plus we have the best bonus and pension contribution scheme in the entire industry. The issue is we’re not Facebook or Google and the location isn’t central London and it’s not a trendy startup or big brand name so we have to compete with a lot of companies that tick those boxes.

[paulca]

UK sees spike in IT job advertisements as lockdown eases

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53438262

[paulca]

Our pay is top notch plus we have the best bonus and pension contribution scheme in the entire industry. The issue is we’re not Facebook or Google and the location isn’t central London and it’s not a trendy startup or big brand name so we have to compete with a lot of companies that tick those boxes.

Our company has resorted to "Shortage of skills Visas" and importing entire families from India.  Not something I fully support.  It artificially increases the labour force during the boom which can lead to problems when the inevitable bust comes.

[bd139]

I dealt with Indian outsources for a few years. Yup. No thanks. Not to say there aren’t skilled folk out there but it’s difficult to get through the layers to find them.

[Zero999]

UK sees spike in IT job advertisements as lockdown eases

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53438262

That's hardly surprising, given more people shopping and working from home. There are always winners and losers. The government wants people to return to work by the start of August, but I suspect many employers will still want to keep remote working in place. It suits many people and social distancing will still be in force, which will mean it's illegal to cram as many people in an office, as it was before and many companies simply don't have enough space for everyone.

Or offer other perks. My employer doesn't pay all that great, but they offered flexible hours, work from home even prior to Covid, "unlimited" PTO which means essentially that as long as your work gets done you can just take time off whenever you need it.

Altium used to have free food (breakfast, lunch, and dinner), make your own hours, free gym membership, free car washing, free concierge errand service (i.e. get someone to go to the shop to buy something for you etc) and other stuff. Still couldn't get staff because of the shitty location, probably the worst spot in Sydney for a tech company.

Did they consider working from home, when possible?

[coppice]

Our pay is top notch plus we have the best bonus and pension contribution scheme in the entire industry. The issue is we’re not Facebook or Google and the location isn’t central London and it’s not a trendy startup or big brand name so we have to compete with a lot of companies that tick those boxes.

A job being in Central London is a huge disadvantage. Nobody wants to work there, with all the commuting hassle. If you are out of London you have real advanatages. You seem to be making excuses.

[coppice]

Our pay is top notch plus we have the best bonus and pension contribution scheme in the entire industry. The issue is we’re not Facebook or Google and the location isn’t central London and it’s not a trendy startup or big brand name so we have to compete with a lot of companies that tick those boxes.

Our company has resorted to "Shortage of skills Visas" and importing entire families from India.  Not something I fully support.  It artificially increases the labour force during the boom which can lead to problems when the inevitable bust comes.

Shortage of skills visas, and similar things like H1Bs in the US, are a fraud, unless they are used to deal with short term issues. The only thing there is a long term shortage of is rewards big enough to attract capable people into a field and keep them there.

[SilverSolder]

Our pay is top notch plus we have the best bonus and pension contribution scheme in the entire industry. The issue is we’re not Facebook or Google and the location isn’t central London and it’s not a trendy startup or big brand name so we have to compete with a lot of companies that tick those boxes.

Our company has resorted to "Shortage of skills Visas" and importing entire families from India.  Not something I fully support.  It artificially increases the labour force during the boom which can lead to problems when the inevitable bust comes.

Shortage of skills visas, and similar things like H1Bs in the US, are a fraud, unless they are used to deal with short term issues. The only thing there is a long term shortage of is rewards big enough to attract capable people into a field and keep them there.

Those kinds of visas are time limited, so almost by definition can only be used to solve short term issues?  (depending on the definition of "short term"...  I would say 6 years go pretty quick, in the bigger scheme of things?).

[coppice]

Those kinds of visas are time limited, so almost by definition can only be used to solve short term issues?  (depending on the definition of "short term"...  I would say 6 years go pretty quick, in the bigger scheme of things?).

In theory they are time limited. In practice you see some strange behaviours. Some years ago in India there was a thing in the news about the number of chopped up Visa and Mastercards found in the waste bins of major international airports. Investigation of the cause found most of these belonged to people who had just left India on an H1B visa. They had got the card, run it up to its credit limit getting stuff for their new life in the US, and just chopped it up as they left. They had no expectation of ever being forced to return to India and face the consequences of committing fraud, because only those who screwed up badly in the US ever had to return to India.

[SilverSolder]

Those kinds of visas are time limited, so almost by definition can only be used to solve short term issues?  (depending on the definition of "short term"...  I would say 6 years go pretty quick, in the bigger scheme of things?).

In theory they are time limited. In practice you see some strange behaviours. Some years ago in India there was a thing in the news about the number of chopped up Visa and Mastercards found in the waste bins of major international airports. Investigation of the cause found most of these belonged to people who had just left India on an H1B visa. They had got the card, run it up to its credit limit getting stuff for their new life in the US, and just chopped it up as they left. They had no expectation of ever being forced to return to India and face the consequences of committing fraud, because only those who screwed up badly in the US ever had to return to India.

Having "enjoyed" an H1B visa myself at one time in the past, I can assure you, it is NOT easy to get an extension -  and applying for permanent residence in the USA requires applying from outside the USA!  It is not as easy as it looks (and it doesn't look easy!).

[PlainName]

chopped up Visa and Mastercards found in the waste bins of major international airports

I am finding it hard to believe that isn't a dead granny. If you're going to stop using a card, why neatly cut it up at your point of exit? Surely just binning it anywhere would do, leaving it whole would be fine. You might want to keep it 'just in case' too.

[james_s]

Our company has resorted to "Shortage of skills Visas" and importing entire families from India.  Not something I fully support.  It artificially increases the labour force during the boom which can lead to problems when the inevitable bust comes.

There are a lot of H1B's from India in software so I've worked with a lot of them. Generally speaking they've been very good, a few duds but that's true of people from anywhere. My problem with the H1B system is the way it is often abused. At a former place I worked with had a guy who was here on a H1B, he'd been in the country for years, had a young daughter who was growing up and going to school here, but I was talking to him one day and found out that his visa was tied to his job at that specific company, if he got let go or quit he would have to either find a new sponsor or go back to India. Now the reason this all came up is that we had a hiring freeze in place but somebody noticed an open position in our group advertised our careers page. So we found out that the company had a fraudulent job listing posted for the position that was already filled by my colleague. We weren't trying to hire somebody to replace him, they had the job listing simply to prove that they were "trying" to find a US citizen to fill the role. All the applications that came in went straight to the trash.

Personally I think the H1B program should be strictly for either temporary help when needed, or a sort of "try before you buy" path to citizenship. If we bring somebody in and they turn out to be a good fit and we want to keep them then I say give them citizenship so they enjoy the same benefits and protections as everyone else. As it stands they are practically an indentured worker, tying their visa to a specific company sponsor means the company can effectively treat them like crap and hold deportation over their head, it's crap.