Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

[james_s]

Are you saying it is OK to have a steady stream of injustices from an undisciplined and unprofessional police force as long as there are no riots?

I don't see anything even remotely suggesting that in what he said.

His statement was a simple fact, bad things happen in the world on a regular basis because bad people exist, a few of those bad people are police officers, most are not. A few of the bad things involve the police, most do not. Acknowledging that something happens is not the same as saying that it's "ok" for bad things to happen. We should strive to minimize this sort of thing but it would be naive to suggest that it will ever be zero. It is fundamentally impossible to have a society in which there are no bad people. All we can do is continuously try to weed them out as they are caught.

[SilverSolder]

Are you saying it is OK to have a steady stream of injustices from an undisciplined and unprofessional police force as long as there are no riots?

I don't see anything even remotely suggesting that in what he said.

His statement was a simple fact, bad things happen in the world on a regular basis because bad people exist, a few of those bad people are police officers, most are not. A few of the bad things involve the police, most do not. Acknowledging that something happens is not the same as saying that it's "ok" for bad things to happen. We should strive to minimize this sort of thing but it would be naive to suggest that it will ever be zero. It is fundamentally impossible to have a society in which there are no bad people. All we can do is continuously try to weed them out as they are caught.

I guess I got caught up in this sentence, "The video showing police brutality was just the right spark at the right time. Many other gruesome videos have come and gone without more than a little grumbling in the press."

What he called a "spark" was actually an outrageous act of injustice carried out against a defenseless person, by agents of the state.  One reason people riot is because they have lost faith in justice being done in cases like this.  We have seen in the past how bad cops got let off the hook - it isn't a slam dunk that police brutality results in a bad outcome for the cops. 

The fact that other acts of great injustice could also cause have caused rioting is beside the point.

Injustice begets more injustice, and lays the foundations for the next riot.

I don't see any evidence that would suggest riots would happen anyway, without these kinds of incidents.

Thankfully, it also works the other way round - the situation will respond well to quick and efficient prosecutions, with fair outcomes.

[maginnovision]

Thankfully, it also works the other way round - the situation will respond well to quick and efficient prosecutions, with fair outcomes.

No it doesn't. Originally the outrage was he(the officer) wasn't arrested, then it was that the other officers weren't arrested, now it's that there are any police at all.

Same with the statues. They illegally pull down statues they don't like but start with confederates. Then they go to founding fathers, then even black abolitionists and they're targeting mount rushmore now. It literally is not ending and the only response we're seeing is more demands and more outrage.

Edit: This is not a political post(I didn't vote last cycle for either loser, and I won't this time either). This is giving more examples of the spreading COVID madness and continous outrage due to it.

[DrG]

/---/
Same with the statues. They illegally pull down statues they don't like but start with confederates. Then they go to founding fathers, then even black abolitionists and they're targeting mount rushmore now. It literally is not ending and the only response we're seeing is more demands and more outrage.

WOW.

It's a Impact of Corona Virus on Work thread not a pathetic pandering to the Orange Fungus thread. Are you trying to get the thread closed to avoid reading the reality about how phenomenally incompetent and bizarre the administration has mishandled the greatest pandemic in 100 years?

Nobody cares about a bunch of ^%$ing statues - they are WAYYYYYY down on the list pal - no matter how much you desperately need to create a a deception that THEY are out to get US and are statues.

[james_s]

Nobody cares about a bunch of ^%$ing statues - they are WAYYYYYY down on the list pal - no matter how much you desperately need to create a a deception that THEY are out to get US and are statues.

A lot of us care quite a bit about statues, even those of us who have long openly criticized the orange one. I'm personally worried because I abhor senseless vandalism and I wonder where it will end. Don't fall into the trap of believing there are only two camps and that you speak for everyone in one of them.

[DrG]

Nobody cares about a bunch of ^%$ing statues - they are WAYYYYYY down on the list pal - no matter how much you desperately need to create a a deception that THEY are out to get US and are statues.

A lot of us care quite a bit about statues, even those of us who have long openly criticized the orange one. I'm personally worried because I abhor senseless vandalism and I wonder where it will end. Don't fall into the trap of believing there are only two camps and that you speak for everyone in one of them.

I speak for myself - ALWAYS. Don't presume to tell me what kind of trap I am going to fall into - while you are telling me how much you "AND A LOT OF US" care about statues - exactly whom are you speaking for with the "LOT OF US" - what a load of self-righteous sanctimonious BS You want to talk about statues - start a thread about statues.

[SilverSolder]

Thankfully, it also works the other way round - the situation will respond well to quick and efficient prosecutions, with fair outcomes.

No it doesn't. Originally the outrage was he(the officer) wasn't arrested, then it was that the other officers weren't arrested, now it's that there are any police at all.

Same with the statues. They illegally pull down statues they don't like but start with confederates. Then they go to founding fathers, then even black abolitionists and they're targeting mount rushmore now. It literally is not ending and the only response we're seeing is more demands and more outrage.

It took way too long to arrest the Keystone Cops in the first instance...  they were only arrested after the city was on fire.  Where's the sense in that? 

Once this kind of thing is rolling, it can be very hard to put it back in the bottle, as we can see.

The "trick" is that justice has to be fair, otherwise it loses the support of the population, and - here we are.

[themadhippy]

[james_s]

I speak for myself - ALWAYS. Don't presume to tell me what kind of trap I am going to fall into - while you are telling me how much you "AND A LOT OF US" care about statues - exactly whom are you speaking for with the "LOT OF US" - what a load of self-righteous sanctimonious BS You want to talk about statues - start a thread about statues.

Wow, it seems that I've hit a nerve. 

I don't particularly want to talk about statues, I was only responding to that other comment that seems to have really set you off. I had no idea that statues were such a hot button topic that would trigger somebody like that. You said right there "Nobody cares about a bunch of ^%$ing statues" which is objectively false, myself and many others do in fact care about statues, you were not speaking for yourself, you didn't say "I don't care about statues", you said "nobody cares about statues".

"Us" = people including myself who care about statues, not to imply that statues are the only thing we care about but I do think it is a stunning display of ignorance to tear down statues of abolitionists and union generals in the name of racial equality. I mean it sends a pretty strong message that this is just a bunch of clueless angry people indiscriminately vandalizing public property and it harms an otherwise noble cause rather than helping. "A lot", ie virtually everyone I associate with, mosf of whom are left of center.

[DrG]

I speak for myself - ALWAYS. Don't presume to tell me what kind of trap I am going to fall into - while you are telling me how much you "AND A LOT OF US" care about statues - exactly whom are you speaking for with the "LOT OF US" - what a load of self-righteous sanctimonious BS You want to talk about statues - start a thread about statues.

Wow, it seems that I've hit a nerve. 

I don't particularly want to talk about statues, I was only responding to that other comment that seems to have really set you off. I had no idea that statues were such a hot button topic that would trigger somebody like that. You said right there "Nobody cares about a bunch of ^%$ing statues" which is objectively false, myself and many others do in fact care about statues, you were not speaking for yourself, you didn't say "I don't care about statues", you said "nobody cares about statues".

"Us" = people including myself who care about statues, not to imply that statues are the only thing we care about but I do think it is a stunning display of ignorance to tear down statues of abolitionists and union generals in the name of racial equality. I mean it sends a pretty strong message that this is just a bunch of clueless angry people indiscriminately vandalizing public property and it harms an otherwise noble cause rather than helping. "A lot", ie virtually everyone I associate with, mosf of whom are left of center.

Yeah yeah, you hit a nerve, you really got me upset blah blah blah....you said this and I said that and you caught me doing exactly what I accused you of doing and I am left of center and squirt and puke. IT IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT STATUES but there you are talking about US and THEM and statues. I don't care if you are left of the moon. I don't even care about your position on statues. If I did, I would contribute to your thread on statues - please go make one and I will be happy not to contribute to it and that will make you happy. Enough.

[SilverSolder]

Does this have anything to do with "statutory rights", or is that something else?   

[PlainName]

IT IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT STATUES but there you are talking about US and THEM and statues.

It kind of is, because the statues thing is an indicator of problems that do (or will) affect us at work. The underlying problem is showing up in the other thread where pretty soon we won't be able to use the b***k word in even comments, never mind code or pin names. Statues is another manifestation of that.

Whether any of this is because of coronavirus is difficult to say. The suggestion earlier that it's happened because we have too much time on our hands along with cabin fever, not to mention decent weather (although you can't blame the virus for that one) may have legs.

[DrG]

Listen I really have to apologize. I was just way out of line and I am truly sorry so let me go on record here as sincerely sorry to snap like that.

Yes, we need to talk about statues more and yes, the thread is certainly about statues - anybody can see that, I don't know what was wrong with me, but I have seen the statue.

Please share with me your passions about statues, stories about statues that may have fallen on your head when you were young, catching your parents in bed with statues, whatever it is, please know that I really want to hear about it because it is important and because I care - I feel your statue pain, your anxieties about statues, your despair over statues. Humanity is being corrupted by Automatonophobia. If I am elected, I promise that we will have more statues and they will be cleaned often. We will never let them take our statues! 

[nctnico]

Nobody cares about a bunch of ^%$ing statues - they are WAYYYYYY down on the list pal - no matter how much you desperately need to create a a deception that THEY are out to get US and are statues.

A lot of us care quite a bit about statues, even those of us who have long openly criticized the orange one. I'm personally worried because I abhor senseless vandalism and I wonder where it will end. Don't fall into the trap of believing there are only two camps and that you speak for everyone in one of them.

IMHO you are both right. In the light of the Corona pandemic statues are the last thing we should be concerned about and people shouldn't go out and tear statues (or anything else) down.

Statues of people should also be put in the right perspective and that is often lost in history. A more recent example is the statue of Arthur 'Bomber' Harris. The English RAF commander who was in charge of large bombardments of German cities which caused a great number of civilian cassualties in WW2. Some people say those bombings where uncalled for. I had the chance to ask my grandfather's opinion. Since he witnessed the horrors of the war first hand while being a forced laborer in Berlin he had a good view on what was actually happening and why. His opinion: 'They should have dropped more bombs. Anyone claiming otherwise is a complete and utter moron.'

But this is getting wildly offtopic. I'm calling Godwin's law since we ended up with nazis 

[maginnovision]

Please share with me your passions about statues, stories about statues...

Let me tell you about D&D then...

Realistically the outrage culture we're seeing right now, in any form it takes, is likely to be spurred on by COVID lockdowns, loneliness, depression, etc... They have nothing else to think about so it's all some people do. You start perceiving slights that aren't real, seeing racism in statues of black men, demanding people change their "racist" language so they don't spread racism like COVID. This will all filter back to peoples work if it hasn't already. I know Google, Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube employees are definitely going to change things with their work due to the spreading COVID madness. It could be unrelated but seeing these things wax and wane over the years repeatedly this time seems different and it's definitely more widespread.

[james_s]

Realistically the outrage culture we're seeing right now, in any form it takes, is likely to be spurred on by COVID lockdowns, loneliness, depression, etc... They have nothing else to think about so it's all some people do. You start perceiving slights that aren't real, seeing racism in statues of black men, demanding people change their "racist" language so they don't spread racism like COVID. This will all filter back to peoples work if it hasn't already. I know Google, Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube employees are definitely going to change things with their work due to the spreading COVID madness. It could be unrelated but seeing these things wax and wane over the years repeatedly this time seems different and it's definitely more widespread.

This sums it up pretty well. My thought on the statues is a bit like my thought on a mysterious lump that shows up on my body somewhere or a soft spot in the wood structure of my house. I don't actually have any real attachment to most statues and such, I could live with a random benign lump and my house won't fall down due to a little soft spot. However random lumps are rarely benign, and a little soft spot is usually the tip of the iceberg on a larger onset of rot lurking below the surface. They are symptoms of much larger and deeper problems which will fester and get far worse left unchecked. Today someone is knocking down a statue over some perceived wrong the person it honors once committed, tomorrow they are torching your house or slaughtering your dog over something your wife's cousin's friend wrote in an essay back in 4th grade. Knocking down the statue doesn't solve anything, whatever problem they are dealing with is still there so what are they going to do next? People have a tendency to believe that if something didn't work they just need to try harder. On top of all that, covid is unlikely to be going away any time soon so this is all likely to keep getting worse unless people put a stop to it now. Going out and protesting or rioting in large groups is quite literally going to both kill large numbers of people and increase the need for lockdowns and other restrictions, as well as creating further economic setbacks that will increase and prolong unemployment, it's all creating a positive feedback loop.

[EEVblog]

IT IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT STATUES but there you are talking about US and THEM and statues.

This is a thread about the impacts of covid on working from home, please stick to that.
I don't want to have to lock this or start deleting posts.

[SilverSolder]

It seems true that one impact of COVID and working from home is that it can be hard to avoid going crazy.   

Everyone probably has different coping mechanisms but I have found physical exercise and eating healthily to be essential for remaining sane during lockdown.  I've never been fitter, and it is ridiculous that it took a pandemic to get me to figure this out, but there you go...

[coppice]

Statues of people should also be put in the right perspective and that is often lost in history. A more recent example is the statue of Arthur 'Bomber' Harris. The English RAF commander who was in charge of large bombardments of German cities which caused a great number of civilian cassualties in WW2. Some people say those bombings where uncalled for. I had the chance to ask my grandfather's opinion. Since he witnessed the horrors of the war first hand while being a forced laborer in Berlin he had a good view on what was actually happening and why. His opinion: 'They should have dropped more bombs. Anyone claiming otherwise is a complete and utter moron.'

Bomber Harris is a perplexing example. At the time most people in the know either thought his bombing program was immoral or was an ineffective use of resources. Some thought both. People like Winston Churchill were deeply troubled by what was going on, so even those in ultimate control were not proponents of the program. Still, nothing changed. This lesson of inaction in the face of a clearly screwed up program should have resonance right now.

[Nusa]

The supply chain of major home appliances seems to be affected by the current situation. My neighbor had her old refrigerator fail a couple weeks ago, and when she went down to buy a new one at Home Depot nothing of interest was in stock and the floor models weren't for sale. She ordered one and it took 10 days to arrive, which happened yesterday.

She didn't lose much food...I had room for her frozen stuff in my chest freezer, and most of her refrigerator stuff was drinks and condiments that didn't actually require refrigeration.

[james_s]

The supply chain of major home appliances seems to be affected by the current situation. My neighbor had her old refrigerator fail a couple weeks ago, and when she went down to buy a new one at Home Depot nothing of interest was in stock and the floor models weren't for sale. She ordered one and it took 10 days to arrive, which happened yesterday.

She didn't lose much food...I had room for her frozen stuff in my chest freezer, and most of her refrigerator stuff was drinks and condiments that didn't actually require refrigeration.

Did she look into having the old one fixed? I've fixed several refrigerators for people, most recently my mom. The most common problem by far that I've seen cause it to stop cooling is a failed PTC starter on the compressor. It's a ~$20-$40 part that takes 5 minutes to install and you're back in business. I've never understood why so many people are so quick to just write off a major appliance over a simple fault.

[paulca]

I've never understood why so many people are so quick to just write off a major appliance over a simple fault.

Cost.  You pay £50 for the guy to call out, take it apart and go, "Hmm, dodgy mate, gonna cost ya gov!"

They will then tell you the part you need is £50 and it will another £50 to fit ... and he can't get the part for at least a week.

... or you could buy a whole new fridge for £200.

[james_s]

Cost.  You pay £50 for the guy to call out, take it apart and go, "Hmm, dodgy mate, gonna cost ya gov!"

They will then tell you the part you need is £50 and it will another £50 to fit ... and he can't get the part for at least a week.

... or you could buy a whole new fridge for £200.

Any consumer who knows how to use a screwdriver can pop a new PTC in there and see if that gets it going, it just plugs onto the compressor and it's a cheap enough part that it's worth trying. I'm not saying people should try replacing parts of the hermetic system or doing major surgery but I've seen an awful lot of things thrown out over trivial problems that anyone capable of tying their own shoes ought to be able to fix with a little advice. Simple home repairs just seems like a basic life skill that everyone should have at least a little bit of.

[bd139]

If it's over 6 years old just replace it. If it's not, at least here, there's a 6 year fit for purpose law under CRA 2015 which is worth exercising. I got a full unconditional refund from Zanussi when their dryer wore through a bearing after 3 years when I quoted that after they sent me a callout invoice. And then there's the old chargeback on the credit card if you bought it on that. Retailers and manufacturers are starting to take that seriously now.

Repair guy is a dead job and it should be. When you pay for something you should be paying for something that isn't a lemon regardless of the price point and that means service, support and repairs for a reasonable lifetime of the device.

[james_s]

I'd like to see repair guy as a job come back. IMO appliances should cost at least 3-4 times what they do, they should be built to last and built to be repaired. My fridge is 18 years old and going strong, the fridge at our cabin was made in 1972 and it's still doing great too. My washer, dryer and dishwasher are all at least 15 years old, the washer and dryer were broken when I got them and I fixed them. The disposable society is crazy and the cost of products like this does not reflect their total cost to the environment.

People used to keep all this stuff much longer, when I was growing up it was not uncommon to see 15-20 year old white goods and TV sets and such in active use.