Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

[Zero999]

Pace doesn't matter. Just burn energy. Some say you start burning fat after 20 minutes. I lost weight too in the past half decade by being more active.

Yes and of course you need to burn more energy than your intake to lose weight. There are other positive effects of high intensity, such as improving fitness and reduced insulin resistance, which you don't get from low intensity. There seems to be lots evidence supporting high-intensity, low-volume interval training, for improving insulin sensitivity, which means your body will burn energy more efficiently, rather storing it as fat, enabling you to eat what you want, without gaining fat.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29197155/

That's what's good about the UK. The weather is always sort of "okish". If it's pissing it down it's usually warm enough for it not to be too bothersome. If it's hot it's not usually hot enough for it to be bothersome. Most of the time it's just overcast. Also where I am in London it's mostly flat and littered with cycle lanes

This must be a different London from the one where I grew up. Cycling to school was a miserable experience for most of the year. The problems with staying dry on a bike in the rain meant I gave up the bike and walked to school. It a lot easier to walk in the kind of clothes that will keep you dry, and you can use an umbrella on the days where the wind is not too strong. Cycling in London even makes London Transport look attractive... if London Transport actually operates in the direction you need to go.

Of he has different preferences for cycling weather? I like cool weather for cycling, preferably around 10^oC, which is fortunately quite close to the average annual temperature where I live in Eastern England. I don't mind light rain, but the wind is more annoying.

Time will tell if that is a good idea or not.

We've just been told we're working from home until September earliest. Possibly not even going back until new year. Turned out the office just cost a lot of money and we don't really need it

We are getting similar, but possibly start of July.  Even the CEO and exec teams say they don't want to return to working in the office 5 days a week.  This presents a problem though.  Obviously we don't need as many desks and it would be very wasteful to assign people a desk.  So all desks become "hot desks" and you would have to book a desk on the days you want to come in.  That gets complex if teams want to have days when all team members are in.... if a lot of teams want to be in on Monday it would require more desks that would sit unused the rest of the week.

They were suggesting using the parking booking app to book desks LOL

Hot desks aren't ideal in a pandemic, because the office needs to be thoroughly cleaned between one user and the next.

The outdoor transmission rate is very, very low.  There's so much more air to dilute the droplets.

(Around here, the protesters are very conscientious about wearing masks, but it probably doesn't matter.)

I hope so, but I'm not exceedingly confident. If Covid does start spreading like wildfire again we'll be right back where we started and I don't know that we could go through another round of months of lockdowns without suffering a total economic collapse.

On the other hand, if the protests don't result in a large spike in infections then we can be a lot more confident in opening things back up, at least outdoor things. Even under the best of circumstances we're going to be feeling the effects of the pandemic for a decade or more. Once things reopen there will be a huge rebound of pent up demand for things but eventually reality of the enormous debt accrued will catch up to us. Even as things stand, all the people who have fallen behind on their rent and mortgages are going to have to pay the piper. The eviction moratoriums will expire eventually and most people who are months behind will never be able to catch up.

Yes, the infection doesn't spread as effectively outside, but huge crowds will definitely increase the spread, especially with lots of people shouting and moving around a lot. Black lives matter, indeed all lives do, so stay at home, where possible and avoid large crowds, like the plague.

The irony is COVID-19 disproportionally affects African Americans. No one knows why. It's odd how there seems to be a focus on socioeconomic factors, which are probably valid, but it could also be biological: genetics and vitamin D deficiency, which is higher in those with darker skin. I think they have an agenda? It's odd how East Asians seem to be less affected by COVID-19, than other ethnic minorities. I wonder if that's because the virus originated over there, there have been similar viruses in East Asia in the past, so people have evolved some immunity?

It's possible the lockdown was overkill, but some overkill was necessary. The R number needed to fall significantly below 1, to bring the number of cases down to a point when they could be managed and buy some time to build testing a contact tracing capacity. Hopefully things can reopen and the disease can be controlled with more targeted measures.

I think landlords will have to write off some of the rent and banks extend mortgages. Evictions are expensive, it can be difficult to get new tenants and sell property. Hopefully there will be an upturn, as people who've continued to work and saved, during the pandemic start spending more. How well the global recovery progresses will depend on whether other countries such as the US, decide to punish China, by putting up trade barriers or not.

[EEVblog]

Time will tell if that is a good idea or not.
We've just been told we're working from home until September earliest. Possibly not even going back until new year. Turned out the office just cost a lot of money and we don't really need it

Lots of companies in that boat. Expect to see drops in the commercial realestate market.

[james_s]

The irony is COVID-19 disproportionally affects African Americans. No one knows why. It's odd how there seems to be a focus on socioeconomic factors, which are probably valid, but it could also be biological: genetics and vitamin D deficiency, which is higher in those with darker skin. I think they have an agenda? It's odd how East Asians seem to be less affected by COVID-19, than other ethnic minorities. I wonder if that's because the virus originated over there, there have been similar viruses in East Asia in the past, so people have evolved some immunity?

Oddly that was not the case in this region, though the last I read it certainly was elsewhere. This suggests to me that socioeconomic factors are a major contributor. There are not a lot of African Americans in this region but those that are here are largely middle class professionals that live among everyone else. We don't have the large swaths of majority black and/or majority low income ghettos that you see in some areas. Apparently the percentage of people who think Covid is a scam is much higher in those communities and then there are all the usual health issues associated with poverty.

It's possible that cultural factors have helped the Asians, I remember when Covid was first starting to spread I started seeing a lot of Asians wearing masks back before anyone else was, parts of Asia have dealt with pandemics enough times before so it's probably more socially acceptable/expected to wear a face mask out in public. My sample size is far too small to for anything more than idle speculation though.

[Zero999]

The irony is COVID-19 disproportionally affects African Americans. No one knows why. It's odd how there seems to be a focus on socioeconomic factors, which are probably valid, but it could also be biological: genetics and vitamin D deficiency, which is higher in those with darker skin. I think they have an agenda? It's odd how East Asians seem to be less affected by COVID-19, than other ethnic minorities. I wonder if that's because the virus originated over there, there have been similar viruses in East Asia in the past, so people have evolved some immunity?

Oddly that was not the case in this region, though the last I read it certainly was elsewhere. This suggests to me that socioeconomic factors are a major contributor. There are not a lot of African Americans in this region but those that are here are largely middle class professionals that live among everyone else. We don't have the large swaths of majority black and/or majority low income ghettos that you see in some areas. Apparently the percentage of people who think Covid is a scam is much higher in those communities and then there are all the usual health issues associated with poverty.

It's possible that cultural factors have helped the Asians, I remember when Covid was first starting to spread I started seeing a lot of Asians wearing masks back before anyone else was, parts of Asia have dealt with pandemics enough times before so it's probably more socially acceptable/expected to wear a face mask out in public. My sample size is far too small to for anything more than idle speculation though.

The case for vitamin D, rather than socioeconomics is quite strong.

A study has been done in the UK which tries to correct for socioeconomic factors contributing to the higher COVID-19 death rate in BAME (Black and Minority Ethnicities).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/methodologies/coronavirusrelateddeathsbyethnicgroupenglandandwalesmethodology

Vitamin D deficiency is more common in people with darker skin, as well as the obese, as it's a fat soluble vitamin and adipose tissue locks it up.
https://www.jabfm.org/content/29/2/226

And there's evidence to support lower serum vitamin D levels, increasing the risk of COVID-19 complications.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40520-020-01570-8
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/medrxiv/early/2020/04/10/2020.04.08.20058578.full.pdf?mod=article_inline

[Bud]

So what is the problem, it is an easy fix. Got to the nearest pharmacy and buy vitamin D.

[coppice]

It's possible that cultural factors have helped the Asians, I remember when Covid was first starting to spread I started seeing a lot of Asians wearing masks back before anyone else was, parts of Asia have dealt with pandemics enough times before so it's probably more socially acceptable/expected to wear a face mask out in public. My sample size is far too small to for anything more than idle speculation though.

In the UK, I lived through the Hong Kong flu epidemic in 1969 and 1970. Everybody worried, but nobody took any precautions. A lot of services were interrupted, but not because of shutdowns. People were just calling in sick in large numbers. The death toll was several times the toll from a typical year's flu, mostly killing the elderly. SARS and avian flu didn't touch the UK, and swine flu turned out to be a damp squib. People have become complacent.

In Hong Kong in the 2000s we lived through SARS, 2 rounds of avian flu, and a minor issue with swine flu. We became used to using masks and clamping down on hygiene issues at the first sign of trouble. We also became used to massive public support for the government taking quick and decisive action.

I live in the UK again now. When covid-19 started, the bulk of people here seemed really indifferent about their health. I guess this is what happens when the only people who remember what an epidemic can do are nearing retirement or have lived abroad. I expect a lot of people of East Asian origin in western countries have enough family contact with people in East Asia to have learned to be cautious. I imagine, like us, they have looked on the bulk of the people around them as careless fools.

[Zero999]

It's possible that cultural factors have helped the Asians, I remember when Covid was first starting to spread I started seeing a lot of Asians wearing masks back before anyone else was, parts of Asia have dealt with pandemics enough times before so it's probably more socially acceptable/expected to wear a face mask out in public. My sample size is far too small to for anything more than idle speculation though.

In the UK, I lived through the Hong Kong flu epidemic in 1969 and 1970. Everybody worried, but nobody took any precautions. A lot of services were interrupted, but not because of shutdowns. People were just calling in sick in large numbers. The death toll was several times the toll from a typical year's flu, mostly killing the elderly. SARS and avian flu didn't touch the UK, and swine flu turned out to be a damp squib. People have become complacent.

In Hong Kong in the 2000s we lived through SARS, 2 rounds of avian flu, and a minor issue with swine flu. We became used to using masks and clamping down on hygiene issues at the first sign of trouble. We also became used to massive public support for the government taking quick and decisive action.

I live in the UK again now. When covid-19 started, the bulk of people here seemed really indifferent about their health. I guess this is what happens when the only people who remember what an epidemic can do are nearing retirement or have lived abroad. I expect a lot of people of East Asian origin in western countries have enough family contact with people in East Asia to have learned to be cautious. I imagine, like us, they have looked on the bulk of the people around them as careless fools.

I definitely agree with your sentiments about why the west has not reacted very well to this and that East Asians are more careful, due to their recent history of epidemics.

It's interesting how Australia have done much better than Europe and America, even though they have closer links to China, which paradoxically could be why. China seems like a far away land for Europeans yet it's on Australia's doorstep, so it's not surprising they too more decisive action.

I remember being more worried about swine flu, at the start of that pandemic, than I was when this one started. People were very worried about swine flu because was a strain of the 1918 flu, which killed many more people. SARS‑CoV‑2 didn't bother me because the last version back in 2003 wasn't a big deal for us. It took most people by surprise.

[SiliconWizard]

So what is the problem, it is an easy fix. Got to the nearest pharmacy and buy vitamin D.

It's an easy fix once people actually know about it.

[coppice]

It's interesting how Australia have done much better than Europe and America, even though they have closer links to China, which paradoxically could be why. China seems like a far away land for Europeans yet it's on Australia's doorstep, so it's not surprising they too more decisive action.

Don't ignore the climate factor. Most of these infections do not spread well in warm weather, and covid-19 hit Australia in the summer.

[bd139]

All that sunshine. Vitamin D again?

[coppice]

All that sunshine. Vitamin D again?

The sun might help with vitamin D levels, but the main factor is having a warm nose. You can reduce your chances of getting many viral infections in the winter by making sure you keep your nose warm when you go out..... or in affluent parts of Asia, when the weather is hot but the air con is set to a crazy low temperature. 

[SilverSolder]

All that sunshine. Vitamin D again?

The sun might help with vitamin D levels, but the main factor is having a warm nose. You can reduce your chances of getting many viral infections in the winter by making sure you keep your nose warm when you go out..... or in affluent parts of Asia, when the weather is hot but the air con is set to a crazy low temperature. 

It's not just Asians that seem to like setting the A/C to refrigerated storage levels!  -  what's wrong with about 24C - 25C...  as long as the house is not humid you'll be comfortable and save $$$!

[james_s]

It's not just Asians that seem to like setting the A/C to refrigerated storage levels!  -  what's wrong with about 24C - 25C...  as long as the house is not humid you'll be comfortable and save $$$!

That's much too warm for me. I can tolerate it during the day but when I go to bed I find if the room is much over 71F/21C I have trouble falling asleep. In the summer I crank up the AC before I go to bed. Doesn't really cost much at all, during the peak summer months AC adds maybe $20/mo to my electric bill.

[Buriedcode]

So what is the problem, it is an easy fix. Got to the nearest pharmacy and buy vitamin D.

Because it isn't as simple as taking Vitamin D supplements = less risk of severe COVID 19.  There is a link, but it could be that those who get less dietary Vitamin D also dont' get enough other nutrients that can affect outcomes.  Or, it's a sign that one goes outside less, and therefore, isn't as active, that affects outcomes.  Every time the media publishes a link between a nice simple food/supplement/vitamin and a risk or something, it is assumed that one causes the other.  There isn't a consensus on what a "normal" blood serum level of Vitamin D should be, as it varies by an order of magnitude depending on country, or even that it is a valid measure for anything more than checking for severe deficiency (read: ricketts )

The danger is that some may believe themselves to be less likely to contract the corona-virus, or have mild symptoms if they take Vitamin D - and therefore behave less cautiously, putting themselves and others at risk.

If the past few months have taught us anything its that rushed studies, jumping to conclusions, and poor fact checking by both the media and governments leads to poor decisions and outcomes.

That said, as long as you don't take too much (like >500ui) some see it as an insurance that at worst, is just a waste of money.  That and finding a brand that is trust worthy, because in most EU countries, and the US, supplements are regulated as food, and as such, have no real obligation to contain the amount of active ingredient they claim to have, and can even have far too much:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190408114319.htm

[nctnico]

Recently I also read an article saying there is a correlation (but remember correlation is not equal to causality!) between low vitamin K levels and being severely affected by Covid-19. Vitamin K comes in two flavours; one kind is obtained from green vegetables and the other from bacteria in your intestines.

And Buriedcode is right to note that vitamin supplements aren't always the answer. None of them contain normal dosages; they are all way over what is necessary and some even contain unhealthy amounts. Unless you have an illness which causes vitamin shortage eathing a normal diet seems to be the best way to get all your vitamins. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/healthy-diet

[Bud]

That implies afro americans do not eat normal diet? .

[coppice]

All that sunshine. Vitamin D again?

The sun might help with vitamin D levels, but the main factor is having a warm nose. You can reduce your chances of getting many viral infections in the winter by making sure you keep your nose warm when you go out..... or in affluent parts of Asia, when the weather is hot but the air con is set to a crazy low temperature. 

It's not just Asians that seem to like setting the A/C to refrigerated storage levels!  -  what's wrong with about 24C - 25C...  as long as the house is not humid you'll be comfortable and save $$$!

Dehumidify the house and it feels comfy well above 25C. A dehumidifier is cheaper to run than an air con.

[maginnovision]

I'll just run the AC and get lower humidity and lower temp. I can go outside when I want it to be hot and humid. I'd have to run the AC anyway because without it'll easily hit 35C indoors.

[nctnico]

That implies afro americans do not eat normal diet? .

That could be a conclusion (although I'd say a 'healthy diet'). If you compare numbers between various countries you can spot a pattern where people with the shittiest jobs and lowest income are hit the hardest. In the US it seems to be the Afro-American, in the UK black people and those from Bangladesh & Pakistan and in the Netherlands it is the East-Europeans, Turkisch and Morrocan people.

[Zero999]

It's interesting how Australia have done much better than Europe and America, even though they have closer links to China, which paradoxically could be why. China seems like a far away land for Europeans yet it's on Australia's doorstep, so it's not surprising they too more decisive action.

Don't ignore the climate factor. Most of these infections do not spread well in warm weather, and covid-19 hit Australia in the summer.

That hasn't stopped it from spreading through sunny Brazil like wildfire.

I doubt warm weather will help to curb the spread, but it's probably true cold is likely to make it worse, not just due to cold noses and low vitamin D, which incidently is only really a factor later on in winter as the body stores it, but because people tend to socialise more indoors, when it's cold.

COVID-19 also hit South Korea in winter and they did a pretty good job of containing it, even though they have fairly cold winters in many parts of the country, compared to western Europe.

Good public health measures seem to be more important than climate, in the management of COVID-19.

So what is the problem, it is an easy fix. Got to the nearest pharmacy and buy vitamin D.

Because it isn't as simple as taking Vitamin D supplements = less risk of severe COVID 19.  There is a link, but it could be that those who get less dietary Vitamin D also dont' get enough other nutrients that can affect outcomes.  Or, it's a sign that one goes outside less, and therefore, isn't as active, that affects outcomes.  Every time the media publishes a link between a nice simple food/supplement/vitamin and a risk or something, it is assumed that one causes the other.  There isn't a consensus on what a "normal" blood serum level of Vitamin D should be, as it varies by an order of magnitude depending on country, or even that it is a valid measure for anything more than checking for severe deficiency (read: ricketts )

The danger is that some may believe themselves to be less likely to contract the corona-virus, or have mild symptoms if they take Vitamin D - and therefore behave less cautiously, putting themselves and others at risk.

If the past few months have taught us anything its that rushed studies, jumping to conclusions, and poor fact checking by both the media and governments leads to poor decisions and outcomes.

That said, as long as you don't take too much (like >500ui) some see it as an insurance that at worst, is just a waste of money.  That and finding a brand that is trust worthy, because in most EU countries, and the US, supplements are regulated as food, and as such, have no real obligation to contain the amount of active ingredient they claim to have, and can even have far too much:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190408114319.htm

If you look at the studies done, vitamin D does have a biochemical role in moderating the immune response in diseases such as COVID-19 and influenza. I admit, I'm not a doctor or biologist, so I don't fully understand it, but it's more than just a correlation.

The main source of vitamin D is from the skin exposed to sunlight, rather than diet, as most foods are poor sources of vitamin D.

Yes, I agree that supplements have risks, but they're minimal, as long as one sticks to the recommended dose. They're cheap, so it makes sense to hand them out freely to those who'll most likely benefit from them.

[SiliconWizard]

Many vitamins, including vitamin D, are easily eliminated by the body when in excess, so unless you take absurd doses, or you have a specific health issue (renal insufficiency or something), it's pretty safe.
Now of course you should ask for medical advice anyway before taking that, and have a blood analysis to see where you stand.

[PlainName]

So what is the problem, it is an easy fix. Got to the nearest pharmacy and buy vitamin D.

It's an easy fix once people actually know about it.

But then there won't be any left to buy on account of panic buying. Again.

[Red Squirrel]

Got an email from corporate that we can expect to work from home until at very least end of summer.  I'm ok with that.  They still insist that 1 person is in the office though, so we chose that the 12h shift   stays as it just makes it easier.  12h day and 12h night and we just arranged it so we work more of those in a row to avoid moving equipment back and forth.  I volunteered to go on mostly 12s since it means more time off so I'm usually at the office, but I did get to work from home too a few times when I was on 8h shifts.  Could get used to that!  Though being alone in the office is kind of nice too.   The 4pm guy always cooks up some nasty stuff and stinks up the whole office and he's not around to do that now.  Man whatever he cooks up is so potent, the smell usually lingers for several hours.  It even makes it into the equipment rooms.  Would not surprise me it gets sucked up by the air dryer and the cable guys get a whiff of that if they need to open up a cable splice box. 

[Zero999]

Many vitamins, including vitamin D, are easily eliminated by the body when in excess, so unless you take absurd doses, or you have a specific health issue (renal insufficiency or something), it's pretty safe.
Now of course you should ask for medical advice anyway before taking that, and have a blood analysis to see where you stand.

Unfortunately fat soluble vitamins such as D aresn't easilly eliminated from the body, when there's an excess, but recommended daily does is a tiny fraction of what's harmful and should be safe to take, even without medical advice. If there was a significant risk from taking the standard dose sold in pharmacies, then it would only be available on prescription.

If a certain demographic is known to have a high prevelance of vitamin D deficiency, it makes more sense to just give them free suplements, rather than testing every one of them, which would be expensive. Fortification of food is another posibility, but it needs to be a staple part of their diet, contain, or be eaten with fat to be effective. In the US, milk is widely fortified with vitamin A & D, but they tend to have fat free milk, so it's not that effective, unless it's consumed with a fatty food. Here in the UK fresh milk isn't fortified and semiskimmed milk is the most popular type, so fortification would make a lot of sense.

[nctnico]

If there was a significant risk from taking the standard dose sold in pharmacies, then it would only be available on prescription.

That is wishfull thinking. A while ago I read a test in a consumer magazine and they found that there where several types of vitamin tablets which had harmful doses. If it isn't regulated it isn't regulated.