Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

[nctnico]

I've caught that too. Seems suspicious to me. The trains looked like New York subway carts to me. A quick Google confirms it:

https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/20/21265221/nyc-mta-ultraviolet-light-uvc-coronavirus-disinfect-puro-pictures

If you read the article more carefully it doesn't make much sense. It sounds like a good money sink to me to cash in on the hype. The effect hasn't been scientifically proved and it won't help to prevent human-to-human transmission of virusses much.

[Electro Detective]

   It smells like a money sinker for sure,
someone spray some Glen20 on that **** before disease spreading flies and mosquitoes rock up 

If it was a true pathogen that had specific frequencies to target and pulse without too much damage to everything else,
that may be a potential to research and trial further.
Been done already last century, many reports of the technique/s apparently working
and dumped, or made illegal by the money shifters of that period, who are now trading in hot stocks in hell,
as will this current lot, and their helpers who are 'doing ok looking out for Number #1' 

But because it's a 6 months (and counting...) obvious 'trial scam' being flogged to the clueless public,
and a good one    well worth beating down on any skeptics, deniers, proof seekers, and troll calling them with forum ban requests   
there's no real point in such a time and R+D resource wasting exercise,
except to keep stringing the billions of masked IPA sniffing suckers along, who will soon have the usual winter sniffles
and old age ailments and mortality thing,
so the deceivers will give corona even more cred

Talk to any vintage human being with serious health issues, constant pain, inconvenience and loneliness,
and they'll tell you that cashing out 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, or 1 year earlier just isn't a problem,
whatever brings it on

[cdev]

UV light does kill pathogens. Its one of the ways that municipalities disinfect water. So if it didnt work many of us would probably have cholera or something like that. We use it every day. Also, the Sun is why we aren't buried in germs. Exposure to sunlight kills a lot of germs.

Hanging your laundry out to dry in bright sunlight (if you live somewhere thats sunny and dry) effectively disinfects it too. And it saves energy.

Some places are so dry that you can wash your clothes, hang them out to dry, take a shower and your clothes are dry before you are done.


-------

So anyway, I just read this distressing article on the US's pandemic response.  WTF?

https://www.nextgov.com/analytics-data/2020/05/how-could-cdc-make-mistake/165565/

[cdev]

Yup, I think you are right, and it seems the experts are hedging their bets whenever this is discussed now.

They dont seem to be at all sure how long immunity from coronavirus lasts - after somebodty recovers from infection. If it only lasts a short time, making vaccines may not be the right approach. I'd certainly be surprised if immunity from any vaccine lasted longer than immunity from actually surviving infection by the pathogen itself.

The wrong vaccine may even make subsequent infections worse. 

On immunity from CovId after infection.  Will that stop you getting infected, forever, in all circumstances?  I'd doubt it.  It's not a playground shield, "But I have shield!"  Nahnahnahnah!".   If you have a measles vaccine are you completely immune to measles?  No.  If you have been infected, recovered and now show as having antibodies, then you're not immortal, and possibly not even completely immune, but you certainly have much more than the rest of us do in real terms.

The number of coronavirus infections we receive each year is very probably extremely high.  Considering most of them are common colds.  It's the three deadlier ones we need to watch out for now.

Some people seem to get sick from those bugs a lot, other people rarely get them. i wonder why?

[nctnico]

UV light does kill pathogens. Its one of the ways that municipalities disinfect water. So if it didnt work many of us would probably have cholera or something like that. We use it every day. Also, the Sun is why we aren't buried in germs. Exposure to sunlight kills a lot of germs.

I guess you didn't read the article. It clearly says the method of using UV to clean subway cars has not been scientifically proven. What else is there to say? You also have to realise that they intend to use the UV light during cleaning. Not during driving around so while the car is in service it will get dirty and people will transfer virusses. So in the end it is just a different way of disinfecting a subway car.

[rdl]

Seems to me the fall off of UV light intensity from any kind of bulb or tube makes them impractical for disinfecting most things. You'd probably need someone manually moving the light over every surface at a distance of just a few inches to do any good at all. Commercial water sterilizers use jacketed tubes where the water flows past relatively close to the UV emitter.

[cdev]

If they say it hasnt been proven that really is almost a confession that they know it won't work.

I recently saw a patent for a robotic disenfector, presumably thats what it does it automates the process.. But, Id still expect it to take a long time to do a big subway car.

Arrgh... what  a mess..

I have a huge double bulb UV lamp that I have had for decades its very bright. But it is a black light, UVB which is not very good for disinfection, I am pretty sure. It may not even work at all. Nor is it good for tanning.

OTOH, UVA is good for tanning and okay for disinfection, although not as good as UVC.
I have a small handheld UVA lamp that I have used for a number of different things, microscopy, minerals, photography. Its a short wavelength lamp so you need to protect your eyes from it if you are using it for a long time.

I totally agree with you, when a disinfecting light is claimed to kill germs, IMHO they likely have to demonstrate effectiveness. And yes, water is disinfected by passing it through plates of glass where the light intensity is very high..

UV light does kill pathogens. Its one of the ways that municipalities disinfect water. So if it didnt work many of us would probably have cholera or something like that. We use it every day. Also, the Sun is why we aren't buried in germs. Exposure to sunlight kills a lot of germs.

I guess you didn't read the article. It clearly says the method of using UV to clean subway cars has not been scientifically proven. What else is there to say? You also have to realise that they intend to use the UV light during cleaning. Not during driving around so while the car is in service it will get dirty and people will transfer virusses. So in the end it is just a different way of disinfecting a subway car.

[Nusa]

UV light does kill pathogens. Its one of the ways that municipalities disinfect water. So if it didnt work many of us would probably have cholera or something like that. We use it every day. Also, the Sun is why we aren't buried in germs. Exposure to sunlight kills a lot of germs.

I guess you didn't read the article. It clearly says the method of using UV to clean subway cars has not been scientifically proven. What else is there to say? You also have to realise that they intend to use the UV light during cleaning. Not during driving around so while the car is in service it will get dirty and people will transfer virusses. So in the end it is just a different way of disinfecting a subway car.

You're overstating it as a total negative rather than a process with strong potential. UV-C is a proven disinfectant method that's been shown to be very effective against all sorts of things, including other coronaviruses. The only thing that's not proven is how effective it is on CV-19. And, of course, whether it's being applied correctly in this case. Note that it's very unhealthy to be in the same area as an operating UV-C lamp, so the method is not practical to use while the car is occupied.

Sunlight is also useful, but it takes a LOT longer than a germicidal lamp. Very little UV-C reaches the surface of the earth...most is blocked by the atmosphere. If it did, you'd have a lot more people with serious skin and eye conditions.

https://sites.nationalacademies.org/BasedOnScience/covid-19-does-ultraviolet-light-kill-the-coronavirus/index.htm

[Electro Detective]

UV light, besides giving plaque covered teeth a white and shiny appearance at nightclubs and retro disco parties 
keeps already sterilized surgery gear that way for long periods.

UV can only _suppress_ at best, any active pathogens lurking in filth, good luck killing anything long term
 
What's needed for serious train cleansing
(and bus, car, truck, tram, ferry, plane, jet, helicopter, horse buggy, canoe, dog sled, space shuttle, and rickshaw modes of travel)
is pressure hose down the trains inside and out with IPA
and Glen20, Windex, Mortein and elbow grease, to wipe out any stray mutations or blobs attempting escape spotted by UV.   

Once dry and totally sterile, all commuters are only permitted to travel in full sized vacuum sealed prophylactic suits 
with Scuba or Nasa Approved breathing gear, all tested and tagged at authorized outlets and kiosks before each trip. 

= farewell corona local and internationally in 6 years or less > 'don't call us, we'll call you..'   


The good news for lucky 'Working From Home' people is, you won't won't have to do any of that 'Stay Sealed, Save Lives' thing just yet.
But better prep up mentally and shop around for a good deal on all that gear on Ebay and Ali,
for when that cushy 'it can't/won't affect me..'     Working From Home gig dries up and blows away.
Come on guys, nothing lasts forever, including cushy job flexibility when the boss has to begin pruning wages and salaries,
and or consider a shut down till further notice,
or close down and get out while the getting's good 

i.e. flog the boutique bike/s, hoarded test gear and previous job 'goodbye' gold (?!) watch now,
before they are worth less than a slab of 3 ply toilet paper   


Disclaimer: if some unemployed bankrupt homeless  'down with big brudder and their corona b!tch'  T-Shirted unshaved *err0rist group jacks a train
and threatens to rip open a commuters prophylactic suit, whilst streaming the proceedings to Youtube and Facebook,
things might get messy,
and other more secure sterilization options may have to be considered,
after they pay off the *err0rist group with back pay, forward pay, stfu pay

and new   'Have A Nice Day Sukkas'      T-Shirts 

[james_s]

Seems to me the fall off of UV light intensity from any kind of bulb or tube makes them impractical for disinfecting most things. You'd probably need someone manually moving the light over every surface at a distance of just a few inches to do any good at all. Commercial water sterilizers use jacketed tubes where the water flows past relatively close to the UV emitter.

I read a study a while back where they tested with a 4' 32W UVC germicidal tube and found that it was effective at a distance of 8 feet with an exposure time of 30 minutes. This was not for Covid-19 as it was not around yet but for some other pathogens, a bacteria I think. These lamps have been used for many years to disinfect hospital facilities, I remember back when I was in school the shop and science classrooms had cabinets for the safety glasses that had a germicidal tube in it to sterilize the glasses between classes.

They're practical for disinfecting things but it takes time, it's not like you can just pass the light over the surface and have everything die. Also they produce quite large amounts of ozone and the UV rapidly degrades many polymers, fades dye, etc.

[paulca]

If they say it hasnt been proven that really is almost a confession that they know it won't work.

BS.  Science requires rigor. Science takes time.  A lot of what is being "hedged" by experts these times is exactly due to the fact that science takes time and claiming something works before it is rigorously tested, published and then peer tested, repeated by many others, is dangerous.  That is what Trump does.

When scientists say "We don't know", for a lot of things, it means, "We haven't got enough data, we haven't tested enough and what has been tested has not been peer reviewed.  So we are not risking people's lives or their trust in science by prematurely coming out to say it works."

Normally these processes take years.  Without proper funding decades.  Accelerating it in a crisis to taking months is one thing, asking for the same to be done in a few weeks is just not going to happen.

[Syntax Error]

Scientist:
H0 = Our default state is it doesn't work but we're testing
H1 = We tested and we're confident within X limits it works

Politician:
H0 = It works
H1 = I told you so

[EEVblog]

Medical experts now say coronavirus ‘does not spread easily’ via surfaces
https://7news.com.au/sunrise/on-the-show/medical-experts-now-say-coronavirus-does-not-spread-easily-via-surfaces-c-1052650

In other news, Isopropyl prices plummet.

[Muttley Snickers]

The experts also said that meat prices would drop by around 30% due to an over supply and restaurants being closed. I went to town on a new barbecue with all the accessories and the meat prices didn't drop. I now feel like a silly sausage.     

[bd139]

Meat prices definitely fell here. I'm getting bored of steak now 

[SilverSolder]

The experts also said that meat prices would drop by around 30% due to an over supply and restaurants being closed. I went to town on a new barbecue with all the accessories and the meat prices didn't drop. I now feel like a silly sausage.   

We don't actually live in a "free market", no matter what we have been told.  Prices are never allowed to drop under any circumstances...  everyone from the central bank on down are pushing a 2% inflation target that the whole system depends on!

[thinkfat]

Medical experts now say coronavirus ‘does not spread easily’ via surfaces
https://7news.com.au/sunrise/on-the-show/medical-experts-now-say-coronavirus-does-not-spread-easily-via-surfaces-c-1052650

In other news, Isopropyl prices plummet.

I've been saying this all the time. There was no evidence of viable virus on surfaces, ever. The studies never tried infecting cell culture, only tried detecting the virus via the PCR test kits, which is totally bogus because it detects dead virus fragments just fine.

[coppice]

Meat prices definitely fell here. I'm getting bored of steak now 

There is usually a period of 2 or 3 weeks each spring when we can buy lamb at beef at half price in the local supermarkets. That didn't happen this year. I haven't seen any low meat prices, and now pork and chicken seem to be rising. I live near York.

[bd139]

Asda are pretty much throwing it out here. 

I'm getting sirloins on last BB day for £1.20 after they were already reduced twice.

[paulca]

Zoom meeting trolling.

Use your webcam/laptop cam to take a photo of you standing in your room behind where you normally have video meetings.

Set this as your meeting video background.

Freak out value +1.

[cdev]

UV light can only kill what it shines upon for an adequate length of time. In NYC, recent cutbacks have left subway cars uncleaned because they don't have staff to clean them and because they now have problems with homeless people who have increased substantially in number due to COVID-19 sleeping in them. So even under the best of conditions UV lights might not shine everywhere, but under these conditions it would seem to be futile to expect UV lights to do the job. They should invest that money in restoring the previous level of staffing and more frequent cleaning.

[PlainName]

UV lights might not shine everywhere

Just needs to shine where you've going to be touching - coronavirus doesn't have legs or wings

(Obviously, assuming the UVC exposure would be sufficient where it does shine.)

It's a bit unfair that it might take very intensive effort to even barely affect this thing with light, when just a blink of an accidental laser reflection does for us!

[Zero999]

Use undoped mercury lamps which produce shorter wavelength UVC that make ozone, which can disinfect surfaces not exposed to the radiation.

Medical experts now say coronavirus ‘does not spread easily’ via surfaces
https://7news.com.au/sunrise/on-the-show/medical-experts-now-say-coronavirus-does-not-spread-easily-via-surfaces-c-1052650

In other news, Isopropyl prices plummet.

I thought that was the case: that the main path of transmission is via the air. I wish people at work would focus more on social distancing, rather than cleaning. My workplace is generally low risk, but some departments are finding it more difficult than others. Some people are close friends outside of work and seem to be finding it difficult to keep apart. There seems to also be a difference between gender: women tend to forget and men are more inclined to consciously break the rules.

[nctnico]

Use undoped mercury lamps which produce shorter wavelength UVC that make ozone, which can disinfect surfaces not exposed to the radiation.

Medical experts now say coronavirus ‘does not spread easily’ via surfaces
https://7news.com.au/sunrise/on-the-show/medical-experts-now-say-coronavirus-does-not-spread-easily-via-surfaces-c-1052650
In other news, Isopropyl prices plummet.

I thought that was the case: that the main path of transmission is via the air. I wish people at work would focus more on social distancing, rather than cleaning.

The article clearly states we should still clean our surfaces. What is the main path of transmission is highly sensitive to context. If people keep a distance then surfaces automatically become a more significant path of transmission. The real question then is: is transmission through surfaces a big enough problem? Given that the experts still say that cleaning surfaces is necessary it seems the answer to that question is 'yes'.

[PlainName]

It's probably well to remember that we are learning on the go, and making it up as we go along. Nothing wrong with that per se - as we find out more we can make better decisions. That can mean that earlier decisions, made with the benefit of what we knew then, may seem overly conservative or reckless based on what we've learned since.