Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

[cdev]

This is an article asking that people who have engineering and science skills try to apply them to making this situation more bearable and especially safer for everybody.

This shows why sanitation is important!

(Enveloped viruses means a group of viruses including COVID-19)

Environmental Engineers and Scientists Have Important Roles to Play in Stemming Outbreaks and Pandemics Caused by Enveloped Viruses


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7099656/

[AndyC_772]

I always thought it was ridiculous in Britain where police forced people  from sunbathing outdoors back into their houses , even did not allow to be outside on their front lawns. It seemed so stupid.

That's not the rule here, though it may have been an overzealous reaction from one particular officer shortly after the lockdown was introduced. Some police forces did go way beyond what the rules required people to do, and received a strong backlash from both the public and senior legal professionals for it.

It doesn't help that there have been major discrepancies between government guidelines - which they confusingly call "rules" or "instructions" - and the actual law which is the The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020.

[paulca]

I always thought it was ridiculous in Britain where police forced people  from sunbathing outdoors back into their houses , even did not allow to be outside on their front lawns. It seemed so stupid.

That's not the rule here, though it may have been an overzealous reaction from one particular officer shortly after the lockdown was introduced. Some police forces did go way beyond what the rules required people to do, and received a strong backlash from both the public and senior legal professionals for it.

It doesn't help that there have been major discrepancies between government guidelines - which they confusingly call "rules" or "instructions" - and the actual law which is the The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020.

Yes it was a combination of overzealous enforcement and confusing rules.  When measures were first introduced a lot of people either shrugged or went "Don't tell me what to do!".  So they had to make it enforcable by the police.  They over shot considerably in a few cases, but in the end to make the rules "simple to enforce", they actually got much stricter.

There have been quite a few garden and house parties broken up by police because it was clear it was not one household, but loads of people congregating in one house/garden.  They told people to go home, drove off, came back an hour later and fined everyone who didn't live at the house, because most of them simply came back.

The action on people sun bathing is caused by people driving to local tourist/beauty spots.  They think, "Well it's empty, nobody else will go to <insert prime sunny day out spot>" when in fact they became literally bunged with thousands of people.  Now police ask you what you are doing, where you live and if you are adhering to distancing and not more than a reasonable distance from your home, they leave you alone.

We can still go shopping, even for non-essentials in some cases, hardware stores and catalog stores like Argos are open.  Basically anything that can be delivered or "click and collected" is open for business.

EDIT:  One more thing to be aware of in the UK is that it has 3 (or more) semi-devolved regions.  England and Wales are governed together, but Scotland and Northern Ireland have devolved health governance and the rules do differ between them somewhat.

[paulca]

I live completely alone.  At home I don't see a single sole from one day to the next.  This has been that way for maybe 10 years as I suffer with social anxiety and depression it suited me.  Work was my only real socialising.  However now I'm in lock down I have had to bend one of the rules.  I share an isolation space between two households.  My household of me and my daughters household of her and her mother.  This is just for "needs must" sake. 

Children are allowed to be exchanged between households with separated parents and in the first few instances we literally did "Hand her over at the door", but we relaxed that a bit.  So I had a family BBQ in the back yard on Saturday.

If any of you have a toddler you will understand when I say, if they have it, you have it.  My little one has sneezed in my face more than once already.  What are you going to do, they don't understand.

[AndyC_772]

There are different regulations in England vs Wales too. For example, one of the "rules" is that outdoor exercise is permitted exactly once per day, but this is only actually law in Wales ref. s 8.2.b. In England we're still being told this is a "rule", but it isn't law.

[nctnico]

I understand your point about over hygiene, but now you are digging your hole deeper by saying "oh well, those people weren't going to live long anyway" 

That is a cultural thing. Recently I read an interview with a Dutch doctor who works in a hospital in New York (US). He noticed that (mostly) relatives are hell bound on trying anything to prolong the life of a person even if from a medical standpoint it is totally useless. That didn't sit well with him; at some point it is just inhumane to let people suffer. In the Netherlands a lot of older people (my own elderly relatives included) have 'do not resuscitate' / 'do not ventilate' statements. They rather die in dignity (in their own home) than suffering in a hospital and then dying with a lot of tubes sticking out of them OR survive but being stuck in a bed, wheelchair, etc. In the Netherlands it is becoming more and more common that elderly people die on their own terms instead of sticking around to just please their family members. The how and when is heavily debated by politicians. Probably some people will now chime in and say 'Oh, they are killing the elderly in the NL' but that isn't the case but I understand it may be a difficult concept to wrap your head around. The Netherlands is quite progressive compared to the rest of the world. I've had some dealings with people in my surrounding who choose not to be treated because treatment would in the end cause more suffering. But it doesn't mean I'm liking the idea; for a healthy person it is counter intuitive.

Specific to the Covid-19 pandemic and ending up in an ICU: The thing people overlook is that you don't walk out of the ICU after being ventilated for a longer period of time. Your body will have a lot of damage and quality of life will be less for a long time and probably for the rest of your life. I don't have the exact numbers but our PM noted that there are significantly less old people in the ICUs in the Netherlands compared to other countries due to Covid-19. This is not due to a shortage of ICU beds but due to old people not wanting to be ventilated.

[EEVblog]

I understand your point about over hygiene, but now you are digging your hole deeper by saying "oh well, those people weren't going to live long anyway" 

That is a cultural thing. *snip*....

aaaaand deeper. All because you are trying to defend the ridiculous position that improved hygiene because of this whole crisis thing is not good thing.
Give up.

[nctnico]

I understand your point about over hygiene, but now you are digging your hole deeper by saying "oh well, those people weren't going to live long anyway" 

That is a cultural thing. *snip*....

aaaaand deeper. All because you are trying to defend the ridiculous position that improved hygiene because of this whole crisis thing is not good thing.
Give up.

Now you move the goalposts again after stating you agree with overdoing hygiene. But I'll play along: Try to explain how improved hygiene will help. Put some numbers on it.

The fact is that improved hygiene only takes you so far and we are way past the point where extra hygiene brings us some extra. You're trying to get more from an empty box. I'd say people in general are doing just fine in the so called 2nd world countries where I'd say hygiene is less well established; they aren't dying by the millions as your assumption seems to suggest. Or are you implying we should keep the lock down measures in place forever? In the end that would lead to self extinction... boy meets girl is not going to happen if everyone stays locked up.

We (humans) already need the aid of medicines like anti-biotics and anti viral vaccines to keep the population healthy. Vaccination grades need to be at 90% or more to stop measles and smallpox (both very contagious viral infections) effectively.

[GlennSprigg]

(Back generally, to the topic!)... 
Generally today, in this computer oriented world, there must be/are SO many  facets
of 'work', that CAN now be done from home, as opposed to the 'olden' days!
Of course this does not include the vast majority of people like production-line workers
or a StorePerson etc. etc.  Although obvious private sector people like Architects or
graphic designers or countless Media personnel can work 99% from home...

As a (slight!) variation to all that, I'm annoyed at some Govt/State feelings about KIDS
being home from School!!     Do they think that a MERE 3, 5, 10 weeks away from the
'school' is going to leave them as destitute uneducated yobbos of our future ??   
They DON'T teach them like in the old ways/times like daring to learn the likes of Times-
Tables, and basic formulas in say maths/science/physics, as they relate everything with
computers now. Virtually all students here, now, must have/use Laptops & Tablets,  and
are set up to have access from home too, for use with 'HomeWork' (haha..) too. Obviously
though, 'parents' must ensure their up-and-comming 'rug-rats' stay on track in their fields.

Then there is the OTHER side of 'isolation' of kids. (Covid-19). They SAY that such young
people are not affected dramatically, in the same way. HOWEVER, that does NOT mean,
(though they can't tell us expertly yet), that they may be CARRIERS that can/may spread
it to those more vulnerable!!??  At this date/time, it's better to be safe than sorry!......

[nctnico]

Then there is the OTHER side of 'isolation' of kids. (Covid-19). They SAY that such young
people are not affected dramatically, in the same way. HOWEVER, that does NOT mean,
(though they can't tell us expertly yet), that they may be CARRIERS that can/may spread
it to those more vulnerable!!??  At this date/time, it's better to be safe than sorry!......

The data from China and many other countries suggest that children are not (significantly) spreading Covid-19. Usually they get it from the parents and not the other way around.

[JPortici]

First day back to the office.. the so called "phase two" has started today. Working from home was nice for a change, i'd like to be able to continue that in the future..
but i was starting to lose it: basically i would never come out of the bedroom where i had set up the temporary lab.

On another note, tonight i will be able to see my girlfriend of many years and not commit a felony while doing it

[MosherIV]

Hi

Sorry to change the subject, back to the OP subject really,

Some of you may know that I am a volunteer at The National Museum of Computing.

The lock down is having servere financial impacts to charites and museums.
The National Museum of Computing is a Not for profit organisation and set up as a charity.
The income from ticket sales has dried up but the bills for rent still have to be paid.

So please can I ask EEVBlog forum member to dig deep and help support the National Museum of Computing :
https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/fuelling-the-future-powering-the-past?tk=b26125afe72adc6ed9d367aa05e86964ed1b9641

I know that some of you have already visited, For those that have not, I look foward to seeing you after the lock down is lifted.

Thanks you to you all and stay stafe.

[GlennSprigg]

Then there is the OTHER side of 'isolation' of kids. (Covid-19). They SAY that such young
people are not affected dramatically, in the same way. HOWEVER, that does NOT mean,
(though they can't tell us expertly yet), that they may be CARRIERS that can/may spread
it to those more vulnerable!!??  At this date/time, it's better to be safe than sorry!......

The data from China and many other countries suggest that children are not (significantly) spreading Covid-19. Usually they get it from the parents and not the other way around.

My 'problem' would be the "Data from China" part, sorry... I just wouldn't believe them.   

[coppice]

Then there is the OTHER side of 'isolation' of kids. (Covid-19). They SAY that such young
people are not affected dramatically, in the same way. HOWEVER, that does NOT mean,
(though they can't tell us expertly yet), that they may be CARRIERS that can/may spread
it to those more vulnerable!!??  At this date/time, it's better to be safe than sorry!......

The data from China and many other countries suggest that children are not (significantly) spreading Covid-19. Usually they get it from the parents and not the other way around.

My 'problem' would be the "Data from China" part, sorry... I just wouldn't believe them.   

Who would you believe? Most governments and media have continuously lied through this event. e.g. are masks good or bad?

[0db]

The good thing about this whole affair is the awareness level of hygiene has reached hyper levels in practically all the population. This should help reduce the transmission of all sorts of stuff in the coming years.

No. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger; IOW: if you stay in a sterile environment your immune system doesn't get any training. Most vaccines work by training your immune system to a weaker variant of a virus so it is ready for when the real deal hits.

Unless you are one of the hundreds of thousands of people who die every year from the flu alone. 1M+ in a bad year. I guess is just sucks to be one of them.
Or the countless others that die or get seriously ill from a myriad of difference viruses and diseases caused by poor community and personal hygiene.

Arguing against improvements in societal and personal hygiene is one of the most asinine arguments I've ever heard.

You are not getting the point. Getting infected by a Corona virus (any type) during your life is inevitable so your body better be prepared (hence vaccinations). Sure a lot of people die from the flu but these aren't healthy people and it is highly questionable whether these people would have lived much longer if they didn't got the flu. So in the end better hygiene doesn't help you against Corona virusses. Not saying personal hygiene is bad but overdoing it is also not good either. There are a lot of useful bacteria on and in your body and a healthy portion of virusses keeps your immune system alert.

Basically, there are two kinds of virus responses:

• -A- those for which your body is able to maintain proteins produced in response to and counteracting a specific antigen. This "antibodies" combine chemically with substances that the body recognizes as alien, such as bacteria, viruses, and foreign substances in the blood.
• -B- those for which your body is not able to maintain these proteins

There is a common infectious viral disease causing fever and a red rash on the skin, typically occurring in childhood, and your body is able to maintain the protein produced in response to it, hence you won't counteract measles again.

There is also a common infection called "common cold", and it doesn't matter how many times you counteract it, your body is not able to maintain a "biological memory" of the protein produced in response to it.

• -A- measles
• -B- common cold

COVID19 looks more similar to a common cold from this point of view, hence increasing conditions or practices conducive to maintaining health and preventing disease, especially through cleanliness looks like a great logical idea to me.

[0db]

I am no more sure bats are classifiable as mammals.

Bats are immune to a lot of viruses at a deep cellular level. Bats do fly, but there is a weird behavior with their oxygen reduction in order to allow them to fly. They are not as light as birds, they are a lot heavier, even their bones are heavier too, and their ability to fly requires a lot of more energy, and, due to the cellular stress to produce this huge amount of energy, it must happen something at the cellular level, something that is actually completely unknown because if we apply this to "a common mammal" it will for sure cause a lot of serious DNA damages that are impossible to repair, and for sure cancer will arise.

Yet it doesn't happen in bats. Why?

What does make their DNA so strong? What do bats use to repair their DNA? And how can they be so immune to viruses?

[thinkfat]

I am no more sure bats are classifiable as mammals.

Bats are immune to a lot of viruses at a deep cellular level. Bats do fly, but there is a weird behavior with their oxygen reduction in order to allow them to fly. They are not as light as birds, they are a lot heavier, even their bones are heavier too, and their ability to fly requires a lot of more energy, and, due to the cellular stress to produce this huge amount of energy, it must happen something at the cellular level, something that is actually completely unknown because if we apply this to "a common mammal" it will for sure cause a lot of serious DNA damages that are impossible to repair, and for sure cancer will arise.

Yet it doesn't happen in bats. Why?

What does make their DNA so strong? What do bats use to repair their DNA? And how can they be so immune to viruses?

If I'm not mistaken this is what "The Lab" in Wuhan has been doing research on

[coppice]

I am no more sure bats are classifiable as mammals.

Bats are immune to a lot of viruses at a deep cellular level. Bats do fly, but there is a weird behavior with their oxygen reduction in order to allow them to fly. They are not as light as birds, they are a lot heavier, even their bones are heavier too, and their ability to fly requires a lot of more energy, and, due to the cellular stress to produce this huge amount of energy, it must happen something at the cellular level, something that is actually completely unknown because if we apply this to "a common mammal" it will for sure cause a lot of serious DNA damages that are impossible to repair, and for sure cancer will arise.

Yet it doesn't happen in bats. Why?

What does make their DNA so strong? What do bats use to repair their DNA? And how can they be so immune to viruses?

Most mammals are largely unaffected by infections that afflict other species. From my reading, what makes bats an extreme case is their ability to distribute things they collect which don't harm them.

[SiliconWizard]

I am no more sure bats are classifiable as mammals.

Bats are classified as mammals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat
not only that, they are placental mammals, just like us.

Bats are immune to a lot of viruses at a deep cellular level.

Their particularly effective immune system makes them very resistant to all kinds of pathogens, not just viruses, which, unfortunately, makes them very effective carriers.

That makes studying them pretty interesting. I don't think we quite understand yet what their "secret sauce" really is.

[paulca]

If bats didn't have a weird immune systems they probably wouldn't exist as they tend to hang in dense groups in the order of millions.

[coppice]

If bats didn't have a weird immune systems they probably wouldn't exist as they tend to hang in dense groups in the order of millions.

Yeah, we need to get them to engage in social distancing. 

[NiHaoMike]

The biggest issue I've seen is with coworkers who live in apartments that have WiFi, there's no way around the fact that the air has a finite amount of bandwidth. Get that many people with that many devices all using it at once and things are gonna slow down.

The bandwidth of the air is virtually infinite, but the hardware that uses it can only work with a tiny fraction of that. Not that better hardware will help by very much when demand will quickly expand to make up for it. What will help is use of millimeter wave and infrared, which are heavily attenuated between rooms and therefore allow much more frequency reuse.

I wonder how many have figured out that going wired significantly boosts performance.

[0db]

If I'm not mistaken this is what "The Lab" in Wuhan has been doing research on

Chineses are not the only bio-engineers on this

[0db]

If bats didn't have a weird immune systems they probably wouldn't exist as they tend to hang in dense groups in the order of millions.

It seems a consequence of their ability to fly.

They are heavy, and each cell must produce a lot of energy to sustain the flying. This means a lot of stress at the cellular level, which implies a lot of DNA damages, and it's precisely here where nature gave them the trick. And as a consequence of this mechanism, they also become immune to viruses.

A virus to reproduce itself needs to use the DNA of a target, but the DNA in bats gets always repaired in a smart way.

The good news is that these researching activities get more interest and attention, and it may be also interesting to understand how bats are immune to develop cancer. Maybe the world after COVID/19 will put more funds into this research.

[paulca]

Maybe the world after COVID/19 will put more funds into this research.

What and let the rich take a hit on their bonuses?  Unlikely.