Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

[EEVblog]

The good thing about this whole affair is the awareness level of hygiene has reached hyper levels in practically all the population. This should help reduce the transmission of all sorts of stuff in the coming years.

No. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger; IOW: if you stay in a sterile environment your immune system doesn't get any training. Most vaccines work by training your immune system to a weaker variant of a virus so it is ready for when the real deal hits.

Unless you are one of the hundreds of thousands of people who die every year from the flu alone. 1M+ in a bad year. I guess is just sucks to be one of them.
Or the countless others that die or get seriously ill from a myriad of difference viruses and diseases caused by poor community and personal hygiene.

Arguing against improvements in societal and personal hygiene is one of the most asinine arguments I've ever heard.

[DrG]

I just saw this today and it is the first time I see comorbidity numbers, reducing the number of deaths by ~40%.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm?fbclid=IwAR1xKt19EwyxwqGeRRMiaXCXdyyIBJ1FmLS6-m24EJapcW_JUrI8AtwwraQ

Given the text mentions the number of deaths may increase due to delays in reporting (it says one to eight weeks), how is the current 60k death toll really being counted?

This whole thing is terribly confusing and, with such data deviations, there is no right answer if one option is better than the other due to the criticality/lethality of this disease.

Admittedly, my position right now is "US-centric", because that is where I am at.

I agree with you on the complexity of the problem, but I resist the "no one right answer" idea - but let me say why because I am not so much saying you are wrong as explaining what I have come to believe.

At one end of the continuum are folks who scream "open it up" and let "herd immunity" run the natural course. This is unacceptable to me. It would, likely (based on what we already know) result in near term deaths in the millions. Additionally, it would unquestionably strain medical resources beyond the breaking point (we already know that has happened in select areas). It is distinctly similar to the political view that is linked to providing medical care to only those who can afford to pay. It is simply not the mark of a civilized society and that is something we should strive to achieve.

At the other end, is the assumption that folks not in the first camp must believe that we want everything locked down until a vaccine is developed and deployed (at minimum a year away and with issues at that), resulting in the complete and continued destruction of the economy. It is a false assumption. That we still do not have sufficient testing (nowhere near sufficient testing), is abominable and inexcusable to me. I complained about this months ago in the thread that was closed, and I feel more strongly now then I did then.

As we  s l o w l y  start experiencing the boundaries of "opening up", the need for maybe 100 times (a number I am guessing at because all I really know is that we don not have enough) the testing capability we currently have is going to be necessary. Easy and cheap testing for infection and immunity. Comprehensive and localized contact tracing that does not further erode our exploited privacy. Those are the immediate challenges that I see that should be a national referendum, not the usual "us vs. them" divisiveness that we have seen so much of  over the last several years.

In my view, we blew it and blew it big time from the start. When I look at the new case distributions for S. Korea, Australia, New Zealand, and other places, for example, I think - wow, why couldn't the US be like that. Sure, they are smaller (much smaller in some cases) with different population density distributions and so on. Still, when more successful strategies are around you, why can't we learn?

In my state, we have had a very large increase in new cases in the last week. Instead of going down, the rate of change has gone up... and this is  May! Did we "open up" irresponsibly? No, we bought and began using  a large number of tests - bought from another country!. Even in hard hit states like Washington, you can see "light at the end of the tunnel" and it is accompanied by a good deal of testing. In the face of all that collective evidence, we continue the "us against them" politics and that HAS to change.

[nctnico]

The good thing about this whole affair is the awareness level of hygiene has reached hyper levels in practically all the population. This should help reduce the transmission of all sorts of stuff in the coming years.

No. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger; IOW: if you stay in a sterile environment your immune system doesn't get any training. Most vaccines work by training your immune system to a weaker variant of a virus so it is ready for when the real deal hits.

Unless you are one of the hundreds of thousands of people who die every year from the flu alone. 1M+ in a bad year. I guess is just sucks to be one of them.
Or the countless others that die or get seriously ill from a myriad of difference viruses and diseases caused by poor community and personal hygiene.

Arguing against improvements in societal and personal hygiene is one of the most asinine arguments I've ever heard.

You are not getting the point. Getting infected by a Corona virus (any type) during your life is inevitable so your body better be prepared (hence vaccinations). Sure a lot of people die from the flu but these aren't healthy people and it is highly questionable whether these people would have lived much longer if they didn't got the flu. So in the end better hygiene doesn't help you against Corona virusses. Not saying personal hygiene is bad but overdoing it is also not good either. There are a lot of useful bacteria on and in your body and a healthy portion of virusses keeps your immune system alert.

[cdev]

Did people see the post I made a few days ago about the custom made graphene FET COVID-19 biosensor?

It looks very promising. Its extremely simple, but also quite sensitive and selective, and it gives instant results.  Not 3 hours, not 3 days, it gives results in real time.

That really could be helpful.

[cdev]

This is the effect of resveratrol on the viral lifecycle of a bunch of different viruses. (inhibits replication, typically)  We know it inhibits MERS and likely also SARS, why dont we - now 5 months in, know what it does with COVID-19?

Also, resveratrol is extremely useful against sepsis and many respiratory diseases as well, also the worst lung problems in COVID-19 are caused by things resveratrol has a good chance of addressing, seems to me, based on what I know about how it behaves in other conditions.

It may be able to be both antiviral and immunomodulator. Probably not but suppose it was?

But I am not a doctor or a pharmacologist, or immunologist. So, anxiously waiting to hear some kind of research results.

[PlainName]

I guess is just sucks to be one of them

Only briefly.

Sure a lot of people die from the flu but these aren't healthy people and it is highly questionable whether these people would have lived much longer if they didn't got the flu.

Er, wrong. People continue to be productive when they have things wrong with them, even long-term and quite serious things. On paper I would have been in your questionable class for over a decade, and yet I am still here, doing pretty good and being productive, not to mention of some direct benefit to society.

Undoubtedly there will be more than a few people where some illness is the straw that does for them, but just having a serious or long-term illness doesn't mean you are on the shitheap within the next 6 months.

[james_s]

According to many reliable reports, the majority of people that get it will get it have no symptoms, or symptoms mild enough not to even seriously suspect they have it (i.e. so that's likely less serious symptoms than the flu)
If it's not the majority then it certainly seems to be a very high percentage.

That's part of the reason I'm curious to get the antibody test. My partner and I both had something in late March, my symptoms were about 2 days behind hers. Started out with a mild fever for about a day, then turned into what felt like a bit of a cold for a few days followed by feeling extremely tired for around a week. I didn't feel sick at that point, I just didn't have the energy to do anything, I drank about 5 cans of caffeinated soda just to get through the work (at home) day. She was significantly sicker than I was but it was still only a day that she completely took the day off and slept most of the day. Whatever we got was highly contagious because we both had it in such quick succession despite all the precautions everyone has been taking and the symptoms match but it was so mild that at the time I was very skeptical.

[nctnico]

Sure a lot of people die from the flu but these aren't healthy people and it is highly questionable whether these people would have lived much longer if they didn't got the flu.

Er, wrong. People continue to be productive when they have things wrong with them, even long-term and quite serious things. On paper I would have been in your questionable class for over a decade, and yet I am still here, doing pretty good and being productive, not to mention of some direct benefit to society.

Then you are not in the class of people I was writing about. The proof is that you are still here despite several flu pandemics in the past decade. Your health is not that bad.

[cdev]

Cumulative exposure to nitrogen dioxide, an important kind of air pollution, may also be important to coronavirus mortality. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7151460/


https://www.windy.com/-NO2-no2

[Zero999]

Also, the optium temperature for corona virus is kind of cool. Hot weather reduces transmission a lot.

Might we be jumping to erroneous conclusions there? Hot weather means people aren't cooped up in a small room trying to keep warm for so long, and probably spending a significant amount of time outside (which will 'social distance' you even if you're reasonably close to someone just because of the wind). I don't think it's safe to say that warmth is bad (for the virus) just on the basis of seasonal cases - as pointed out previously, your insides are warmer than most environments and it's there that this thing lasts longest.

Yes, I doubt temperature makes that much difference. COVID-19 has spread to some tropical countries and on board cruise ships, which would have been pretty well heated. UVB radiation will destroy the virus, but it will only make a difference to picking up the virus on surfaces outdoors, so I doubt the UV index makes that much of a difference.

[PlainName]

The proof is that you are still here despite several flu pandemics in the past decade. Your health is not that bad.

No, because I get the flu vaccination and haven't had it, so you and I have no idea how I might survive getting it. However, I am very sure that had I got it at the start of my issue, over a decade ago, I wouldn't be here now.

[cdev]

How are people handling their Internet connectivity requirements? I'd like to hear how people are handing the networking aspect of working at home, particularly network latency (important for interactive services) and security. My internet connection has taken a nose dive recently, and at times its almost unusable.

[thinkfat]

No problem here atm. VDSL link with close to 90Mbit down and 20 MBit uplink. But my direct neighborhood is completely void of power users. Suburb with mostly old people.

[coppice]

Yes, I doubt temperature makes that much difference. COVID-19 has spread to some tropical countries and on board cruise ships, which would have been pretty well heated. UVB radiation will destroy the virus, but it will only make a difference to picking up the virus on surfaces outdoors, so I doubt the UV index makes that much of a difference.

There are a couple of studies that show a good correlation between case loads and a particular temperature range, but correlation doesn't ensure causality. Remember that most of those warms places with significant case loads were hit early in Spring. Singapore is hot for the whole year, but has so many overworking air cons that you can spend long periods at unreasonably low temperatures there.

[coppice]

How are people handling their Internet connectivity requirements? I'd like to hear how people are handing the networking aspect of working at home, particularly network latency (important for interactive services) and security. My internet connection has taken a nose dive recently, and at times its almost unusable.

Our ISP says their traffic is up 30% since the start of the lockdown. So far, performance hasn't shown an obvious change.

[SiliconWizard]

My internet connection has taken a nose dive recently, and at times its almost unusable.

Same here. It has almost since the beginning of confinement.
Typical downstream close to what we had with ADSL 512K almost 20 years ago during the day (=> 50KB/s to 100KB/s) and long ping times (whereas I have ~1.4MB/s normally). Gets even worse near the end of the day. Gets back to normal at night after midnight or so. Clearly saturated.

People complaining. ISPs not saying a word.

[bd139]

The kids are hammering our connection hard and absolutely no problems so far. This is on Zen ADSL in UK. Look at traffic increase for Mar/Apr...



Connection is running 59 down 15 up.

[Tomorokoshi]

We use Webex and, even when the system calls are done directly to everyone's cellphone, voice is still routed to IP (the Webex software detects activity and controls mute per individual).

This seems to be mostly a Webex problem, rather than an IP audio problem. Other systems do much better. Many companies who use Webex only use it for the shared desktop functionality, and use another approach for sharing audio.

Agreed. Google hangouts and Goto meeting for example offer excellent sound quality. Needing to repeat yourself is definitely a thing of the past unless you use a crappy service or your internet connection is really bad.

It actually was Webex that we were using. The participant from far away originally connected using computer audio, which was very distorted like a combination of low bit rate and really bad echo cancellation. The quality really wasn't any better after he disconnected and called in over the telephone link. However, other Webex meetings with distant participants were fine. Perhaps issues vary depending on the local routing.

[chickenHeadKnob]

Yes, I doubt temperature makes that much difference. COVID-19 has spread to some tropical countries and on board cruise ships, which would have been pretty well heated. UVB radiation will destroy the virus, but it will only make a difference to picking up the virus on surfaces outdoors, so I doubt the UV index makes that much of a difference.

There are a couple of studies that show a good correlation between case loads and a particular temperature range, but correlation doesn't ensure causality. Remember that most of those warms places with significant case loads were hit early in Spring. Singapore is hot for the whole year, but has so many overworking air cons that you can spend long periods at unreasonably low temperatures there.

The missing bit of information to consider is the serum vitamin D levels in a population and its positive impact on immune response. Levels vary considerably per season in northern countries versus someplace like Australia. The instinct to get some sun in the springtime is strong for Canadians, which I think is driven by underlying biology.

[cdev]

People should be able to claim a refund if they are not getting the bandwidth they are paying for and it doesnt resolve fairly soon.

[james_s]

The biggest issue I've seen is with coworkers who live in apartments that have WiFi, there's no way around the fact that the air has a finite amount of bandwidth. Get that many people with that many devices all using it at once and things are gonna slow down.

[cdev]

It is, the underlying biology is quite important. The substance you get isnt just Vitamin D, you also get a very interesting hormone called Alpha-MSH. Look it up! It seems to act as an aphrodisiac in women. It might in men too, we're more similar than we think.  Its also involved with the tanning process. (the M stands for melanocyte)

Yes, I doubt temperature makes that much difference. COVID-19 has spread to some tropical countries and on board cruise ships, which would have been pretty well heated. UVB radiation will destroy the virus, but it will only make a difference to picking up the virus on surfaces outdoors, so I doubt the UV index makes that much of a difference.

There are a couple of studies that show a good correlation between case loads and a particular temperature range, but correlation doesn't ensure causality. Remember that most of those warms places with significant case loads were hit early in Spring. Singapore is hot for the whole year, but has so many overworking air cons that you can spend long periods at unreasonably low temperatures there.

The missing bit of information to consider is the serum vitamin D levels in a population and its positive impact on immune response. Levels vary considerably per season in northern countries versus someplace like Australia. The instinct to get some sun in the springtime is strong for Canadians, which I think is driven by underlying biology.

the peak temperature for COVID-19 transmission according to some Chinese research I have read was found to be around 10 degrees centigrade in China during the first few months when people were dying in large numbers in Wuhan especially. But as somebody said, other factors could easily be in there that nobody had figured into the mix . For example, a lot of young people caught COVID-19 here in the US over spring break, then bringing it back to communities all around the country.

presumably in the bright sunshine and warm conditions.  (But no doubt also going back to air conditioned hotel rooms, not smart but ....  )

[Bud]

I passed the local library while driving to a grocery store some weeks back and i saw the parking lot was full. I thought -interesting, do we have libraries open as essential business , that seemed weird to me. It was several days later that i realized the reason was : free WiFi. Apparently all those cars parked had peoples sitting in them and using the library's WiFi, some "working from home".

[Bud]

The missing bit of information to consider is the serum vitamin D levels in a population and its positive impact on immune response. Levels vary considerably per season in northern countries versus someplace like Australia. The instinct to get some sun in the springtime is strong for Canadians, which I think is driven by underlying biology.

I always thought it was ridiculous in Britain where police forced people  from sunbathing outdoors back into their houses , even did not allow to be outside on their front lawns. It seemed so stupid. Don't they know in Britain that you need sunlight to produce vitamine D naturally.

[EEVblog]

The good thing about this whole affair is the awareness level of hygiene has reached hyper levels in practically all the population. This should help reduce the transmission of all sorts of stuff in the coming years.

No. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger; IOW: if you stay in a sterile environment your immune system doesn't get any training. Most vaccines work by training your immune system to a weaker variant of a virus so it is ready for when the real deal hits.

Unless you are one of the hundreds of thousands of people who die every year from the flu alone. 1M+ in a bad year. I guess is just sucks to be one of them.
Or the countless others that die or get seriously ill from a myriad of difference viruses and diseases caused by poor community and personal hygiene.

Arguing against improvements in societal and personal hygiene is one of the most asinine arguments I've ever heard.

You are not getting the point. Getting infected by a Corona virus (any type) during your life is inevitable so your body better be prepared (hence vaccinations). Sure a lot of people die from the flu but these aren't healthy people and it is highly questionable whether these people would have lived much longer if they didn't got the flu. So in the end better hygiene doesn't help you against Corona virusses. Not saying personal hygiene is bad but overdoing it is also not good either. There are a lot of useful bacteria on and in your body and a healthy portion of virusses keeps your immune system alert.

Sorry, you don't get a get out of jail free card.
I said that better hygiene will come as result of this and you flatly said No, implying that was not a good thing.
By your response I now presume that you actually agree with me that better hygiene is not a bad thing?
I understand your point about over hygiene, but now you are digging your hole deeper by saying "oh well, those people weren't going to live long anyway" 
Your position has gone from asinine to downright callous.