Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

[james_s]

But if I got it right, Electro Detective seems to be thinking that Covid-19 is just a scam or something. So I don't think discussing the drastic measures that have been taken is going to lead to anything fruitful anyway.

Whereas there are IMO some dark spots in the way the Covid-19 has been handled, I'm wondering what exactly is ED's point. Politicians may be lying, but I don't think thousands of hospitals worldwide would have any interest in lying as well. Or as I said, maybe he's just trolling. Who knows. 

Hopefully we aren't reading another story like this about him in a few weeks/months. I can't help being a little amused by the irony.

https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/04/ohio-man-dies-of-coronavirus-after-calling-it-a-political-ploy.html

[Bud]

He (the Ohio man) asked to be proved wrong and got his wish granted (RIP anyways)

[bd139]

He lived a productive life if he became a lesson to other humans 

[Electro Detective]

But if I got it right, Electro Detective seems to be thinking that Covid-19 is just a scam or something. So I don't think discussing the drastic measures that have been taken is going to lead to anything fruitful anyway.

Whereas there are IMO some dark spots in the way the Covid-19 has been handled, I'm wondering what exactly is ED's point. Politicians may be lying, but I don't think thousands of hospitals worldwide would have any interest in lying as well. Or as I said, maybe he's just trolling. Who knows. 

Hopefully we aren't reading another story like this about him in a few weeks/months. I can't help being a little amused by the irony.

https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/04/ohio-man-dies-of-coronavirus-after-calling-it-a-political-ploy.html

Hopefully we aren't reading another story like The Emperor's New Clothes  when we are all SOON fubar broke (the exception being insiders and paid pro dis-info agents)

and won't be amused by anything anymore,

nor feeling so smart or trusting of authorities and news media,

or proud of ones 'higher education and intelligence'

especially when your wallet's been lifted off you in broad daylight,

after ignoring the tip off that there's a new gang of robbers in suits roaming the streets 


fwiw:  call this 'trolling' and LOL all you like, and enjoy any short lived amusement while it's still affordable   

[james_s]

One thing is apparent, the lockdowns, isolation and uncertainty are certainly taking a toll on mental health.

[bd139]

Yeah we’re developing quite a high secondary death toll here. I suspect it’s going to be a lot higher over time than immediate coronavirus deaths particularly as cancer care is canned for a lot of people so good outcomes turn to bad. They’ll be swept under the carpet while the politicians are labelling themselves as heroes.

[PlainName]

after ignoring the tip off that there's a new gang of robbers in suits roaming the streets

I can't quite grasp what your position is on this. Is it:

• There is no pandemic, or it's just like flu.
• There is a pandemic and it's serious, but the lockdowns, etc, aren't needed.
• There is a pandemic, it's serious and needs lockdowns, but the economy must come first.

And...

• Some people/corps are taking advantage of the situation.
• Some people/corps are promoting panic so that...
• ... they can take monetary advantage of the situation.
• ... they can take a controlling advantage of the situation.
• Some people/corps have engineered the situation so they can either/both the above.

[coppice]

One thing is apparent, the lockdowns, isolation and uncertainty are certainly taking a toll on mental health.

Yeah, but its going to be boom time for divorce lawyers when the lockdown is lifted.

[nctnico]

Yeah we’re developing quite a high secondary death toll here. I suspect it’s going to be a lot higher over time than immediate coronavirus deaths particularly as cancer care is canned for a lot of people so good outcomes turn to bad.

Over here they are (re)starting regular health service to prevent that from happening. That is possible because the number of Corona patients is declining.

[bd139]

Lucky. My mother had her chemo cancelled. The hospitals are pretty dead here. I reckon it's going to turn into a shit show beyond all proportion yet.

[coppice]

Lucky. My mother had her chemo cancelled. The hospitals are pretty dead here. I reckon it's going to turn into a shit show beyond all proportion yet.

It already is a shit show. Have you noticed how much non-corona related deaths have risen in recent weeks?

[james_s]

I don't get why chemo would be considered non-essential. Here they stopped all elective procedures, as far as I was aware something like chemo was not considered elective but I thankfully have not had a need to find out.

[nctnico]

I don't get why chemo would be considered non-essential. Here they stopped all elective procedures, as far as I was aware something like chemo was not considered elective but I thankfully have not had a need to find out.

My guess would be that some judgement is made on how urgent a treatment is. We are not being told the full story; it is not like urgent health care has stopped. The whole point of the lockdowns is to keep health care going for all treatments needed urgently.

[bd139]

Lucky. My mother had her chemo cancelled. The hospitals are pretty dead here. I reckon it's going to turn into a shit show beyond all proportion yet.

It already is a shit show. Have you noticed how much non-corona related deaths have risen in recent weeks?

Indeed I have. I actually think the long term (10 year picture) the lockdown may have a worse body count than letting the virus do its thing. That's going to be way easier to bury in statistics when eyes are turned to the task at hand which will here will be Boris' second coming and be all of us being told to do our part through austerity to pay off the temporary concessions everyone had...

I don't get why chemo would be considered non-essential. Here they stopped all elective procedures, as far as I was aware something like chemo was not considered elective but I thankfully have not had a need to find out.

It's purely an overplanning shit show. They transferred nursing staff to covid-19 care which is a one way transfer for infection control reasons. This left the department with minimum staff. Then a couple of the staff got sick so then the department had to close. The covid-19 staff are sitting around doing fuck all most of the time because they are nowhere near capacity, despite the shite being shown on the BBC (half my family is in NHS and has confirmed it directly at three different hospitals).

For the folk outside the UK, the NHS is untouchable here after being a political pawn for decades. You can't criticise it or the staff even if there's bodies everywhere from a gigantic fuck up.

[coppice]

I don't get why chemo would be considered non-essential. Here they stopped all elective procedures, as far as I was aware something like chemo was not considered elective but I thankfully have not had a need to find out.

I saw a short interview on the news with an ICU doctor who was puzzled by the large drop in the kinds of emergency patients they normally see a steady steam of. Maybe COVID-!9 is magically stopping all other emergencies from occurring. Maybe those people are going directly to the rising non-COVID19 deaths figure.

[nctnico]

I don't get why chemo would be considered non-essential. Here they stopped all elective procedures, as far as I was aware something like chemo was not considered elective but I thankfully have not had a need to find out.

I saw a short interview on the news with an ICU doctor who was puzzled by the large drop in the kinds of emergency patients they normally see a steady steam of. Maybe COVID-!9 is magically stopping all other emergencies from occurring. Maybe those people are going directly to the rising non-COVID19 deaths figure.

More conspiracy theories  In reality the answer is really simple: people don't get into so many accidents if they stay at home. Maybe that ICU doctor isn't the sharpest knife in the cutlery tray. This isn't hard to figure out.

[bd139]

That and probably the 30 minute wait for 999 around here finishing everyone off.

Remind me why do I pay tax again? 

[coppice]

I don't get why chemo would be considered non-essential. Here they stopped all elective procedures, as far as I was aware something like chemo was not considered elective but I thankfully have not had a need to find out.

I saw a short interview on the news with an ICU doctor who was puzzled by the large drop in the kinds of emergency patients they normally see a steady steam of. Maybe COVID-!9 is magically stopping all other emergencies from occurring. Maybe those people are going directly to the rising non-COVID19 deaths figure.

More conspiracy theories  In reality the answer is really simple: people don't get into so many accidents if they stay at home. Maybe that ICU doctor isn't the sharpest knife in the cutlery tray. This isn't hard to figure out.

He specifically referenced infection issues, not accidents, dumbass.

[james_s]

For the folk outside the UK, the NHS is untouchable here after being a political pawn for decades. You can't criticise it or the staff even if there's bodies everywhere from a gigantic fuck up.

Even so, I can tell you without question that I would take that shitshow over the spectacularly worse shitshow that is the US healthcare system. Nowhere else in the developed world will you be denied treatment due to lack of insurance, or get a bill for $150k+ for a heart attack. Even with insurance a friend of mine had a mild heart attack a few years ago and was still on the hook for $7k. We had something like 35 million citizens without health insurance even before Covid. Even with good insurance it's still an absolute nightmare to navigate, I rarely seek medical care unless something is really serious because it's so hard to know if I'll get a bill for $50 or for $5,000+, it's extremely difficult to know. Sometimes you end up having to fight with the insurance company because they'll find some bullshit reason to deny coverage and then you're on the hook to contest it or pay up. If I set out to design a more convoluted, inefficient and ridiculous system I'd be hard pressed to do so.

[bd139]

Yeah yours is much worse. It’s the number one reason I have turned down two US based jobs over the years.

Then again I paid including VAT about £40k of tax last year. 

I don’t mind helping other people which appears to be the antithesis of the US healthcare system though.

[coppice]

Even so, I can tell you without question that I would take that shitshow over the spectacularly worse shitshow that is the US healthcare system. Nowhere else in the developed world will you be denied treatment due to lack of insurance, or get a bill for $150k+ for a heart attack.

I've been surprised how comfortable many Americans are with their health care being tied to their employment. If you say something like "if you are laid off, and the stress brings on a heart attack, what is your next step?" they look confused, and upset.

I have met three Americans who do not live in the US, and say they will never return, after being in bankruptcy over medical bills resulting from accidents.

[james_s]

Yeah yours is much worse. It’s the number one reason I have turned down two US based jobs over the years.

Then again I paid including VAT about £40k of tax last year. 

I don’t mind helping other people which appears to be the antithesis of the US healthcare system though.

We spend FAR more per capita on healthcare than you guys do, I wonder where all that tax money goes? I don't know the exact numbers offhand but I know the US spends twice as much as Canada which is the next runner up. That's per person too so the differing population shouldn't really matter.

A lot of our healthcare costs are less visible though. Since most people get their health insurance through their employer they never see a dollar amount for it. It's part of my compensation but it's not like I can decline it and take the money instead. I have no idea how much my employer pays for my health insurance.

[nctnico]

I don't get why chemo would be considered non-essential. Here they stopped all elective procedures, as far as I was aware something like chemo was not considered elective but I thankfully have not had a need to find out.

I saw a short interview on the news with an ICU doctor who was puzzled by the large drop in the kinds of emergency patients they normally see a steady steam of. Maybe COVID-!9 is magically stopping all other emergencies from occurring. Maybe those people are going directly to the rising non-COVID19 deaths figure.

More conspiracy theories  In reality the answer is really simple: people don't get into so many accidents if they stay at home. Maybe that ICU doctor isn't the sharpest knife in the cutlery tray. This isn't hard to figure out.

He specifically referenced infection issues, not accidents, dumbass.

And where do infection issues come from? Yes, those come from complications from surgery and accidents. Do I really need to explain that? Again, either the ICU doctor isn't the sharpest one or his/her words where taken out of context.

[coppice]

I don't get why chemo would be considered non-essential. Here they stopped all elective procedures, as far as I was aware something like chemo was not considered elective but I thankfully have not had a need to find out.

I saw a short interview on the news with an ICU doctor who was puzzled by the large drop in the kinds of emergency patients they normally see a steady steam of. Maybe COVID-!9 is magically stopping all other emergencies from occurring. Maybe those people are going directly to the rising non-COVID19 deaths figure.

More conspiracy theories  In reality the answer is really simple: people don't get into so many accidents if they stay at home. Maybe that ICU doctor isn't the sharpest knife in the cutlery tray. This isn't hard to figure out.

He specifically referenced infection issues, not accidents, dumbass.

And where do infection issues come from? Yes, those come from complications from surgery and accidents. Do I really need to explain that? Again, either the ICU doctor isn't the sharpest one or his/her words where taken out of context.

So, you don't think this doctor would notice when he gets an infection case, and the person has been smashed up in an accident? You don't think he'd be making allowance for that?

[nctnico]

From my personal experience with doctors: No, I don't think so. And it is not the job of an ICU doctor to think about cause & effect and doing all kinds of statistics. Like any doctor an ICU doctor just follows the treatment protocol for the given symptoms. Doctors coming up with all kinds of outside-the-box miracle cures only exist in (fictional) TV shows.