Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

[james_s]

Yea, theaters, restaurants, theme parks. These things make money being packed and they're unlikely to run if forced to be at 20% capacity.

Well we might have to adjust what is considered viable for a while. Prices may have to be higher, staff might have to be fewer, building rents might have to be lower. People can find a way to adapt, none of these problems are insurmountable.

[nctnico]

Yea, theaters, restaurants, theme parks. These things make money being packed and they're unlikely to run if forced to be at 20% capacity.

In addition to what james_s wrote: think about what the average seating rate is of a restaurant during the day. Spread the people better during the day and the problem is solved. During Christmas many restaurants have 2 or even 3 time slots to have dinner. The same system can be applied.

[coppice]

Yea, theaters, restaurants, theme parks. These things make money being packed and they're unlikely to run if forced to be at 20% capacity.

In addition to what james_s wrote: think about what the average seating rate is of a restaurant during the day. Spread the people better during the day and the problem is solved. During Christmas many restaurants have 2 or even 3 time slots to have dinner. The same system can be applied.

Rush hour traffic, congested restaurants, and many other of the time wasters of modern life stem from the obsession most businesses still have with the 9 to 5 paradigm. Line workers need to follow the same hours, but less and less modern employment is like that. Break the paradigm, and much crowding would disappear.

[james_s]

I wonder how the few drive-in movie theaters remaining are doing? Surely they could be operating still, the 1950s drive-in movie and diner options are ideally suited for the current situation.

One of the things I've always liked about the tech industry and my current job in particular is the flexible hours. I need to be around for the meetings and stuff but otherwise if I want to take the afternoon off and work from 1am to 9am nobody is going to care as long as the work gets done.

[langwadt]

Yea, theaters, restaurants, theme parks. These things make money being packed and they're unlikely to run if forced to be at 20% capacity.

In addition to what james_s wrote: think about what the average seating rate is of a restaurant during the day. Spread the people better during the day and the problem is solved. During Christmas many restaurants have 2 or even 3 time slots to have dinner. The same system can be applied.

lots of restaurants already try to spread out people by offering discounts for being early.
Spreading it out is also likely to need more staff hours a big expense. 

no matter what it isn't going to be easy

[maginnovision]

I think you guys are rebuking something I didn't say. If the income isn't greater than the cost of running business they close. A theme park makes money on tickets, food, and merchandise. They don't care if you stand in a line, that makes them no money.

Also consider the people who can afford to go out less and less. It's great we're all able to work from home or have plenty of money to live on regardless of not being paid but there are a lot who aren't. The ROI is very important for property and if that number goes too low or negative you may be forced to get rid of it. Some large companies may be able to pick it up in hopes they can make money but others won't and everyone renting will be pushed out
 Property isn't always a money maker which is why you want many to offset the poorer ones that you bet will come up. Profit for businesses is another necessary. Nobody will run these if they can't afford to live on the profits. Theaters, restaurants, theme parks, retail stores... None are going to be hugely profitable without massively raising prices at which point patronage will drop too. Inflation is going to hurt a lot of people regardless of when this ends. Theaters, restaurants and retail stores are often independent or franchises. They're not really backed by some huge company that may or may not be able to weather the storm

I wonder how the few drive-in movie theaters remaining are doing? Surely they could be operating still, the 1950s drive-in movie and diner options are ideally suited for the current situation.

One of the things I've always liked about the tech industry and my current job in particular is the flexible hours. I need to be around for the meetings and stuff but otherwise if I want to take the afternoon off and work from 1am to 9am nobody is going to care as long as the work gets done.

Considering drive in churches have to sue to stay open I'm betting not well.

[nctnico]

Yea, theaters, restaurants, theme parks. These things make money being packed and they're unlikely to run if forced to be at 20% capacity.

In addition to what james_s wrote: think about what the average seating rate is of a restaurant during the day. Spread the people better during the day and the problem is solved. During Christmas many restaurants have 2 or even 3 time slots to have dinner. The same system can be applied.

lots of restaurants already try to spread out people by offering discounts for being early.
Spreading it out is also likely to need more staff hours a big expense. 

I don't think so. If you are in a restaurant early (like Dutch people tend to do when they visit more southern countries in Europe where they eat later) you'll notice that restaurants manage the people to be there just in time. As more customers start to fill the restaurant you'll see more staff members arriving. Less customers at once means less staff at once. It is simple as that. Restaurants are not paying people to twiddle their thumbs; that isn't going to change.

[blacksheeplogic]

Also consider the people who can afford to go out less and less. It's great we're all able to work from home or have plenty of money to live on regardless of not being paid but there are a lot who aren't.

I think this is one of the key points that is overlooked. The massive over reaction shutting down the economy has put a lot of people out of work, many not on government salaries but with jobs are looking at an uncertain further and possibly reduction in pay. People are not going to have the same disposable income and along with increases in prices even for basics like food and housing many of these businesses will not be profitable and they will not be replaced.

[EEVblog]

Over here they are allowing a limited number of people inside shops to adhere to governments rules. Works pretty well and it is enforced legally. The same can work for gyms, etc. And don't forget: people who work from home can create their own schedule. They are no longer bound to a '9 to 5' rythm. From a biological standpoint there is no rule which says humans (like to) work best from 9 to 5.

Most people do not work from home and will not in the future. Things aren't going to be that radially different. Yes some business will realise work form home isn't that bad and will move a bit in that direction. But I'm willing to bet that in a few years time when this has all blown over, the world will on average look and work very little different to what it did 3 months ago.

Do you have kids?If not then you likely won't understand why a lot of the daily/weekly routines exist.

[james_s]

I think you guys are rebuking something I didn't say. If the income isn't greater than the cost of running business they close. A theme park makes money on tickets, food, and merchandise. They don't care if you stand in a line, that makes them no money.

Also consider the people who can afford to go out less and less. It's great we're all able to work from home or have plenty of money to live on regardless of not being paid but there are a lot who aren't. The ROI is very important for property and if that number goes too low or negative you may be forced to get rid of it. Some large companies may be able to pick it up in hopes they can make money but others won't and everyone renting will be pushed out
 Property isn't always a money maker which is why you want many to offset the poorer ones that you bet will come up. Profit for businesses is another necessary. Nobody will run these if they can't afford to live on the profits. Theaters, restaurants, theme parks, retail stores... None are going to be hugely profitable without massively raising prices at which point patronage will drop too. Inflation is going to hurt a lot of people regardless of when this ends. Theaters, restaurants and retail stores are often independent or franchises. They're not really backed by some huge company that may or may not be able to weather the storm

So adapt. Like I said, things may need to change. Rents will need to come down, the cost of eating out may go up, people will have less money yes, nobody is disputing this, it's going to take a very long time for things to get back into another boom again. That doesn't mean all is lost though, that doesn't mean restaurants have to stop being a thing. People still want to go out to eat, even with massive unemployment there are still many, many millions of people who are still employed and there is pent up demand. Even before the crash somebody from rural middle America would absolutely balk at the cost of running a restaurant or other business in downtown Seattle or Manhattan, they might say it's impossible to make a living doing that and yet people do.

Things are grim but the ship has nut sunk yet. It seems many people have a tendency to just throw up their hands in despair and give up. Others get creative and find a way to keep going. Adapt, change, do things differently, look at things from a different perspective and stay afloat.

[maginnovision]

In some cases trying to adapt can help, in other cases the adaptation is getting rid of a failing investment. There are multiple areas in the US where food banks are failing because too many people are already falling back on them.

[james_s]

I think this is one of the key points that is overlooked. The massive over reaction shutting down the economy has put a lot of people out of work, many not on government salaries but with jobs are looking at an uncertain further and possibly reduction in pay. People are not going to have the same disposable income and along with increases in prices even for basics like food and housing many of these businesses will not be profitable and they will not be replaced.

It hasn't been overloooked, we are keenly aware of it and it sucks. At one point I agreed that it was an overreaction but since then it has become obvious that it is not. Look at what's happening in the US, we are now far out in the lead in the number of infections and I believe we are now the world leaders in Covid deaths and this is despite the lockdowns. New York in particular is a mess right now. Yes the shutdown is brutal and yes if it goes on too long it will throw us into a massive depression but some drastic action was necessary. Here in the Seattle area we were on trajectory to quickly run out of ventilators which would have forced the sort of triage process that happened in Italy but we managed to avoid this and "only" 500 or so people have died in this state so far. Mind you there are 50 states so 500 in each one would still be 25,000 deaths and the numbers are still increasing. The shutdown is a bit like using chemotherapy to kill cancer, you just have to hope the cancer dies out before the chemo kills the whole body.

We certainly need to get people back to work soon but it needs to be done very carefully, perhaps everyone possible should have protective gear and new protocols. If we are careless about the process it could be the equivalent of taking antibiotics and stopping as soon as you feel better instead of continuing the full prescription, the bacteria can regroup and take over again, this time stronger and more resistant. 

[pawanranta]

The rebooting of economy in phased manned is the only option. Moreover, we need to adapt and learn how to fight the epidemics and keep the economy running.

[blacksheeplogic]

It hasn't been overloooked, we are keenly aware of it and it sucks. At one point I agreed that it was an overreaction but since then it has become obvious that it is not. Look at what's happening in the US, we are now far out in the lead in the number of infections and I believe we are now the world leaders in Covid deaths and this is despite the lockdowns. New York in particular is a mess right now. Yes the shutdown is brutal and yes if it goes on too long it will throw us into a massive depression but some drastic action was necessary.

Take a look at how some other countries like Switzerland have dealt with it. Placing everyone under house arrest is unnecessary, it's not the ONLY way. For countries that have gone that way, now the question is how do you roll it back.

[james_s]

Take a look at how some other countries like Switzerland have dealt with it. Placing everyone under house arrest is unnecessary, it's not the ONLY way. For countries that have gone that way, now the question is how do you roll it back.

Other countries are not Switzerland, it is a tiny nation with a very homogeneous population. The USA has more than 575 times the land area with almost 40 times the population, it's is a network of semi-autonomous states with a highly diverse population of widely varying regional cultures and a narcissistic man-child for a leader. We got caught with our pants down and were utterly unprepared, it was a real eye opener, I had no idea just how unprepared we were. Some of the individual state leaders have shined during this catastrophe while much of the federal government flails helplessly and says something different each day.

I can't really speak for what is happening in other nations, we've got our hands full here and I try not to be the stereotypical American sticking my nose in everyone elses business. Just as what works for Switzerland may not work for us, what works for us may not work for you.

[paulca]

Death numbers....

People are dying, lots of people.  Real people with families, lives, dreams.  Saying they would die anyway from <insert statistic> is cold, dark, psychopathic.

The spread...

It spreads faster and further than any seasonal cold or flu.  It kills more.  Without any restrictions or social distancing it would be spreading even faster.  Speculate all you want.

Over running hospital systems...

See comments on "Millennium bug syndrome."  Also, see Italy.  See Spain.  Remember the US is behind them by a few weeks.  The US data has been marching steadily upwards.  This is NOT over.

Government, power, partisan bullshit...

What the US do with their power, narcissist toddler leader and "FREEDOM!"[tm] capitalism is up to them.  Good luck.

[Nusa]

You guys are now spewing politics, whether you admit it or not. Keep it up and this thread will get locked too. Is that your goal?

[bd139]

Fair point. I nuked my post above.

Back to working from home and internet problems. Today I get told the ISP is having to refer this to OpenReach who have a 2 week lead time at the moment on broadband issues at best.  . So 95 disconnects in the last 24 hours.  So it looks like there's a demand problem on this infrastructure. I have backup 4G from my phone for now.

[EEVblog]

You guys are now spewing politics, whether you admit it or not. Keep it up and this thread will get locked too. Is that your goal?

Thread cleaned up.

[nctnico]

Over here they are allowing a limited number of people inside shops to adhere to governments rules. Works pretty well and it is enforced legally. The same can work for gyms, etc. And don't forget: people who work from home can create their own schedule. They are no longer bound to a '9 to 5' rythm. From a biological standpoint there is no rule which says humans (like to) work best from 9 to 5.

Most people do not work from home and will not in the future. Things aren't going to be that radially different. Yes some business will realise work form home isn't that bad and will move a bit in that direction. But I'm willing to bet that in a few years time when this has all blown over, the world will on average look and work very little different to what it did 3 months ago.

Do you have kids?If not then you likely won't understand why a lot of the daily/weekly routines exist.

I have kids for over 2 decades. The youngest is getting on-line lessons. I've also been working from home for nearly a decade. The only reason to adhere to a strict schedule is when people really need to work together on the same item at the same time. Now think hard of where that is really really true. In the end the answer is likely meetings and team sports.

[SilverSolder]

Over here they are allowing a limited number of people inside shops to adhere to governments rules. Works pretty well and it is enforced legally. The same can work for gyms, etc. And don't forget: people who work from home can create their own schedule. They are no longer bound to a '9 to 5' rythm. From a biological standpoint there is no rule which says humans (like to) work best from 9 to 5.

Most people do not work from home and will not in the future. Things aren't going to be that radially different. Yes some business will realise work form home isn't that bad and will move a bit in that direction. But I'm willing to bet that in a few years time when this has all blown over, the world will on average look and work very little different to what it did 3 months ago.

Do you have kids?If not then you likely won't understand why a lot of the daily/weekly routines exist.

I have kids for over 2 decades. The youngest is getting on-line lessons. I've also been working from home for nearly a decade. The only reason to adhere to a strict schedule is when people really need to work together on the same item at the same time. Now think hard of where that is really really true. In the end the answer is likely meetings and team sports.

There's also the element of "random conversation by the water cooler" that can be quite important...

[boffin]

Take a look at how some other countries like Switzerland have dealt with it. Placing everyone under house arrest is unnecessary, it's not the ONLY way. For countries that have gone that way, now the question is how do you roll it back.

I'm not exactly sure that Switzerland is a shining example.  For a tiny country with a tiny population (8.6M) they still have 26,000 cases.  I'm pretty sure if you do the math, you'll find the infection rate per 1000 people is higher in Switzerland than it is in the USA (which isn't exactly a example of how to do things).

Countries that have adopted early, wide-spread stay at home orders have done much better.

[bd139]

Half my family is Swiss. And they'd be quite happy to piss on the graves of people from another canton. Never use the Swiss as an example for anything other than being pricks as a whole.

[nctnico]

Take a look at how some other countries like Switzerland have dealt with it. Placing everyone under house arrest is unnecessary, it's not the ONLY way. For countries that have gone that way, now the question is how do you roll it back.

I'm not exactly sure that Switzerland is a shining example.  For a tiny country with a tiny population (8.6M) they still have 26,000 cases.  I'm pretty sure if you do the math, you'll find the infection rate per 1000 people is higher in Switzerland than it is in the USA (which isn't exactly a example of how to do things).

Countries that have adopted early, wide-spread stay at home orders have done much better.

Nonsense. It is general knowledge that the infection numbers say nothing because they depend on the amount of testing done. And not every country is testing to the same extend. The number of hospitalisations is a much better indicator but still doesn't paint a complete picture.

Just be prepared that social distancing and working from home is going to be the norm for at least another year.

[SilverSolder]

Take a look at how some other countries like Switzerland have dealt with it. Placing everyone under house arrest is unnecessary, it's not the ONLY way. For countries that have gone that way, now the question is how do you roll it back.

I'm not exactly sure that Switzerland is a shining example.  For a tiny country with a tiny population (8.6M) they still have 26,000 cases.  I'm pretty sure if you do the math, you'll find the infection rate per 1000 people is higher in Switzerland than it is in the USA (which isn't exactly a example of how to do things).

Countries that have adopted early, wide-spread stay at home orders have done much better.

Nonsense. It is general knowledge that the infection numbers say nothing because they depend on the amount of testing done. And not every country is testing to the same extend. The number of hospitalisations is a much better indicator.

The number of deaths is probably the most serious indicator...  there is a time lag, of course.