Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

[SiliconWizard]

Nonsense. It is general knowledge that the infection numbers say nothing because they depend on the amount of testing done. And not every country is testing to the same extend. The number of hospitalisations is a much better indicator.

You're right about that. It's still very hard to get useful numbers as to the number of infected people in most countries.
Also, we need to take a look at the numbers on a larger time frame. Published day-to-day numbers vary a lot depending on many factors and do not reflect any trend per se, they mainly reflect how each country reports them. And it's not an easy task.

As to Switzerland and the number of cases over the total population, the figures are available.  Switzerland has a total of 2,997 cases/per 1 million people, which is actually higher than Italy. But Switzerland also has a ratio of tests/1M people of 22,993 - one of the highest ratios.

[boffin]

Take a look at how some other countries like Switzerland have dealt with it. Placing everyone under house arrest is unnecessary, it's not the ONLY way. For countries that have gone that way, now the question is how do you roll it back.

I'm not exactly sure that Switzerland is a shining example.  For a tiny country with a tiny population (8.6M) they still have 26,000 cases.  I'm pretty sure if you do the math, you'll find the infection rate per 1000 people is higher in Switzerland than it is in the USA (which isn't exactly a example of how to do things).

Countries that have adopted early, wide-spread stay at home orders have done much better.

Nonsense. .....

OK, you don't like testing numbers, how about fatalities ?
Switzerland is still not a shining example; with infection and death rates higher than the USA.   Saying it's nonsense is just stupid

Deaths:
Switzerland 1,162, population 8.6M = 135/M
USA 23,709, population 328M = 72/M

[mansaxel]

That's exactly where I am  . Looking at their hAP ac unit. 5GHz, 4G via USB etc.

Is RouterOS a complete piece of shit or is that an unfounded rumor?

Nope. Cisco lovers are just jealous..
It has less bugs that our Cisco core routers..

Also has less functions. Which is fine if you can cope with that. I can't.

Anyway. Anyone been hit with systematically horrible net connectivity as a consequence of WFH? 

Edit: Yes, bd139, I saw your example.

I sat in on an informal meeting with people from all the big ISPs in Sweden, as representative for the TV company where I work. We've seen increases in work-day loads in Sweden, but the peaks still are in the evenings, so we're not running hot anywhere, except, of course, the russians at our largest Internet exchange, but they've been flatlining their connections the last 10 years. 

I understand that southern Europe's been another level of crazy. When Telecom Italia opens for settlement-free peering with anyone, you know there's a crisis and a biggun' at that... To get an Oceanic perspective on that; it's as if Telstra whould start giving things away...

[bd139]

The only problem we’ve seen from people is actually their WiFi to their home offices being shit. It’s difficult to get from a problem of “outlook doesn’t work” to “your WiFi is shit because you’re 20m away from the lowest bidding router you could get with three large kitchen appliances between you and it”. Then when you mail them an Ethernet cable it turns into a nightmare from hell getting them to set that up. Usually because they break the tab off the RJ45 and it spends all day falling out. Or they’ve got 11 kids on Netflix 4K on virgin media and contention galore.

Most issues are human.

Incidentally my internet connection is ok as of 12:00 today. I suspect there was an exchange issue.

[2N3055]

That's exactly where I am  . Looking at their hAP ac unit. 5GHz, 4G via USB etc.

Is RouterOS a complete piece of shit or is that an unfounded rumor?

Nope. Cisco lovers are just jealous..
It has less bugs that our Cisco core routers..

Also has less functions. Which is fine if you can cope with that. I can't.

Anyway. Anyone been hit with systematically horrible net connectivity as a consequence of WFH? 

Edit: Yes, bd139, I saw your example.

I sat in on an informal meeting with people from all the big ISPs in Sweden, as representative for the TV company where I work. We've seen increases in work-day loads in Sweden, but the peaks still are in the evenings, so we're not running hot anywhere, except, of course, the russians at our largest Internet exchange, but they've been flatlining their connections the last 10 years. 

I understand that southern Europe's been another level of crazy. When Telecom Italia opens for settlement-free peering with anyone, you know there's a crisis and a biggun' at that... To get an Oceanic perspective on that; it's as if Telstra whould start giving things away...

You seem to confuse us with Internet backbone providers for western Europe. 
Mikrotik has large subset of Cisco functions, and 100% of all the functions you would ever need in small business and home environment.
Catalyst 9600 Series switches are a bit too much for my home network..

[nctnico]

Take a look at how some other countries like Switzerland have dealt with it. Placing everyone under house arrest is unnecessary, it's not the ONLY way. For countries that have gone that way, now the question is how do you roll it back.

I'm not exactly sure that Switzerland is a shining example.  For a tiny country with a tiny population (8.6M) they still have 26,000 cases.  I'm pretty sure if you do the math, you'll find the infection rate per 1000 people is higher in Switzerland than it is in the USA (which isn't exactly a example of how to do things).

Countries that have adopted early, wide-spread stay at home orders have done much better.

Nonsense. .....

OK, you don't like testing numbers, how about fatalities ?
Switzerland is still not a shining example; with infection and death rates higher than the USA.   Saying it's nonsense is just stupid

You are still trying to compare apples with oranges. That is the nonsense part in your posting. This is not some kind game. Projected deaths for the US are currently somewhere between 60k and 80k by August this year. The Corona virus has not dissapeared by then. The bottom line is that the majority of the world's population will become infected at some point. Depending on the measures a country takes this will go faster or slower. When slowed down enough fewer people will die due to lack of medical care. But don't take my word for it: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/08/politics/what-matters-april-8/index.html Read what the (real) experts say. And they say social distancing is going to be necessary for a very long time. It is not like you can social distance for a few weeks and go back to normal. It doesn't work that way.

[Sal Ammoniac]

I wonder how the few drive-in movie theaters remaining are doing? Surely they could be operating still, the 1950s drive-in movie and diner options are ideally suited for the current situation.

There's a drive-in theater about a five minute drive from my house. It's currently closed. I would have thought the owners would close the snack bar but keep the theater open, but that's not the case--the whole operation is closed for the duration. I don't know if this was a choice on the part of the owners, or a government mandate. Even with the snack bar closed, people tend to get out of their cars and mingle, so perhaps this had some effect on the decision to close.

[Nusa]

There are 50 states in the USA, and most of them individually have the size, population, economies and governments of countries, and most of the major health decisions are actually being made at the state level, not the federal level. Comparing any individual country in Europe to the USA is like comparing any state in the USA to the entirety of Europe. You're taking a single entity and comparing it to the average of a large collection of entities. Simply not a fair comparison, even if you manage to adjust for virus timelines in progress somehow. Now if you want to compare to individual states, that's another matter. Looking at cases per million population, Switzerland (population 9 million, 2997 cases/million) is doing WAY better than New York State (population 20 million, 10307 cases/million), and WAY worse than California (population 40 million, 624 cases/million). Not to mention that ALL the data is subject to adjustment, likely upward, as testing volume improves. Or much later simply by counting the actual death rate compared the normal death rate.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

[mansaxel]

Mikrotik has large subset of Cisco functions, and 100% of all the functions you would ever need in small business and home environment.

I work in enterprise settings, with several 100Gbit links close to full at times. Another ball game.

Catalyst 9600 Series switches are a bit too much for my home network..

Mine too, so am only upgrading from 4948 to 4500X, to get 10GigE for a few select links, to servers and between switches... 

On-topic question; what would be an established level where you'd upgrade a PNI to another provider? In normal times, that is. We're not normal now. I seem to recall 70% of capacity measured as 5 minute average being a common threshold in Sweden, and I've been told not every market think they can afford that.

[bd139]

I looked at Cisco 926 ISR for personal use TBH and though hell no I'm not paying that money 

Going back a few years I had a 2600 with ADSL WIC in it as my core router. Also had an Ultra 60. No longer! Can't be arsed with that shit. Give me something cheap and simple.

[james_s]

There's a drive-in theater about a five minute drive from my house. It's currently closed. I would have thought the owners would close the snack bar but keep the theater open, but that's not the case--the whole operation is closed for the duration. I don't know if this was a choice on the part of the owners, or a government mandate. Even with the snack bar closed, people tend to get out of their cars and mingle, so perhaps this had some affect on the decision to close.

That seems like a poor choice on somebody's part. It would not be difficult to mandate staying in one's car unless absolutely needed such as for restroom use and have an attendant to sanitize the facilities after each use. Many of the risks can be mitigated.

[2N3055]

Mikrotik has large subset of Cisco functions, and 100% of all the functions you would ever need in small business and home environment.

I work in enterprise settings, with several 100Gbit links close to full at times. Another ball game.

Catalyst 9600 Series switches are a bit too much for my home network..

Mine too, so am only upgrading from 4948 to 4500X, to get 10GigE for a few select links, to servers and between switches... 

On-topic question; what would be an established level where you'd upgrade a PNI to another provider? In normal times, that is. We're not normal now. I seem to recall 70% of capacity measured as 5 minute average being a common threshold in Sweden, and I've been told not every market think they can afford that.

Unless you have SLA, it's slippery slope...
In my country, there are guidelines from national communications  authorities, but generic contracts with providers are vague.. Unless you pay for SLA..

[Muttley Snickers]

For those in Australia waiting on parcels and regular mail there might be a delay for 5-7 days longer than normal. I just received an electricity account which is due to be paid in a couple of days, normally they give you couple of weeks to pay but this letter was posted exactly two weeks ago.

https://www.auspost.com.au/about-us/news-media/important-updates/coronavirus

[rdl]

I just found out yesterday that because of the virus, the US Tax Return filing deadline was changed from April 15 to July 15. I guess I need to get out from under my rock more often.

[EEVblog]

Over here they are allowing a limited number of people inside shops to adhere to governments rules. Works pretty well and it is enforced legally. The same can work for gyms, etc. And don't forget: people who work from home can create their own schedule. They are no longer bound to a '9 to 5' rythm. From a biological standpoint there is no rule which says humans (like to) work best from 9 to 5.

Most people do not work from home and will not in the future. Things aren't going to be that radially different. Yes some business will realise work form home isn't that bad and will move a bit in that direction. But I'm willing to bet that in a few years time when this has all blown over, the world will on average look and work very little different to what it did 3 months ago.

Do you have kids?If not then you likely won't understand why a lot of the daily/weekly routines exist.

I have kids for over 2 decades. The youngest is getting on-line lessons. I've also been working from home for nearly a decade. The only reason to adhere to a strict schedule is when people really need to work together on the same item at the same time. Now think hard of where that is really really true. In the end the answer is likely meetings and team sports.

No, it's getting kids ready, dropping them off at school, picking them up from school, getting them to swimming and soccer and *insert other events here*, lunch is roughly midday, dinner roughly the same time every night, meals need to be prepared etc etc. Regular life routines, regular as clockwork for the majority of people.

As for the likes of gyms, majority of people don't like to go at random hours, or hours dictated by some social time scheduling guidelines. They want to go to their favorite class with their favorite instructors at the most convenient times to them. Before work, lunch time break, after work etc.
Same for say movies, most people are not going to want to go at say 10am on a workday on their own, they want to go at times that fit their schedule like saturday/sunday mornings or afternoons with their family, or Thursday which is release day, or Friday night with their friends or partner.

People will want to get back to this routine as soon as possible, and the longer they aren't allowed to do that the more pissed of people are going to be. They don't want a "new normal" and will not accept it in the long term, you'll see.

[EEVblog]

Take a look at how some other countries like Switzerland have dealt with it. Placing everyone under house arrest is unnecessary, it's not the ONLY way. For countries that have gone that way, now the question is how do you roll it back.

I'm not exactly sure that Switzerland is a shining example.  For a tiny country with a tiny population (8.6M) they still have 26,000 cases.  I'm pretty sure if you do the math, you'll find the infection rate per 1000 people is higher in Switzerland than it is in the USA (which isn't exactly a example of how to do things).

Countries that have adopted early, wide-spread stay at home orders have done much better.

Nonsense. It is general knowledge that the infection numbers say nothing because they depend on the amount of testing done. And not every country is testing to the same extend. The number of hospitalisations is a much better indicator.

The number of deaths is probably the most serious indicator...  there is a time lag, of course.

And the exact causes of deaths  is also highly questionable. Can we please stop talking about the stats on this thread, it's about the impact on our work and business and personal lives etc.

[nctnico]

Over here they are allowing a limited number of people inside shops to adhere to governments rules. Works pretty well and it is enforced legally. The same can work for gyms, etc. And don't forget: people who work from home can create their own schedule. They are no longer bound to a '9 to 5' rythm. From a biological standpoint there is no rule which says humans (like to) work best from 9 to 5.

Most people do not work from home and will not in the future. Things aren't going to be that radially different. Yes some business will realise work form home isn't that bad and will move a bit in that direction. But I'm willing to bet that in a few years time when this has all blown over, the world will on average look and work very little different to what it did 3 months ago.

Do you have kids?If not then you likely won't understand why a lot of the daily/weekly routines exist.

I have kids for over 2 decades. The youngest is getting on-line lessons. I've also been working from home for nearly a decade. The only reason to adhere to a strict schedule is when people really need to work together on the same item at the same time. Now think hard of where that is really really true. In the end the answer is likely meetings and team sports.

No, it's getting kids ready, dropping them off at school, picking them up from school, getting them to swimming and soccer and *insert other events here*, lunch is roughly midday, dinner roughly the same time every night, meals need to be prepared etc etc. Regular life routines, regular as clockwork for the majority of people.

As for the likes of gyms, majority of people don't like to go at random hours, or hours dictated by some social time scheduling guidelines. They want to go to their favorite class with their favorite instructors at the most convenient times to them. Before work, lunch time break, after work etc.

IMHO you are not seeing the upsides. If you work from home then who cares at what time you work? You can go to a movie or gym in the morning or afternoon and work in the evening. Or go for a workout on Monday morning and work on Saturday afternoon. Your favorite gym instructor doesn't work during 1 hour per week (and given the circumstances the gym is likely to alter the schedule). Sure things like getting the kids ready for school and dinner still exist at fixed times but other than that working from home allows a different schedule compared to the typical 9 to 5 schedule. This is exactly what I have been doing the past decade. And it is not a random schedule; it is a schedule which fits me best given the circumstances. Your kids are likely free from school one afternoon. It could be nice to do something fun with your kids instead of working. IOW: when working from home working hours no longer exist. Freedom!

I'm not a person who likes to change routines (I score pretty good on autistic traits) but I have changed my routines due to the Covid19 virus. I don't like it but what is the alternative? Sit in a corner and be angry about it? Normally I go swimming twice a week during the cold season on (pretty much) fixed moments. But since the pools are closed I picked up cycling earlier than usual. I don't really like cycling wearing a winter jacket but I'm starting to get the hang of it (getting the thermal management right so to say). I also bought a thick wetsuit to swim in the lake nearby but somehow my wife is very against me going swimming in the lake right now (which I normally do during the summer anyway).

According to this study from Harvard we even might be facing lock downs until 2022:
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/04/14/science.abb5793

However I do think some countries have implemented lock downs which are way too strict. IMHO Germany and the Netherlands are implementing measures which allow enough freedom of movement to keep daily life and work going on while stopping the virus from spreading too quickly. Over here more and more shops are re-opening (with a modified interior to allow enough distance between people).

[SerieZ]

Yes, Switzerland has not been a stellar example. Probably because our elected Leaders were afraid of the economic repercussions and also aware too late. We also have very close ties to Italy, especially the provinces most affected. It is hard to tell. Same can be said about most Western countries.

Half my family is Swiss. And they'd be quite happy to piss on the graves of people from another canton. Never use the Swiss as an example for anything other than being pricks as a whole.

Hmmm..., if anecdotal Evidence is enough for you to judge a whole people I think I will pass on anything you have to say as well. 

[thinkfat]

However I do think some countries have implemented lock downs which are way too strict. IMHO Germany and the Netherlands are implementing measures which allow enough freedom of movement to keep daily life and work going on while stopping the virus from spreading too quickly. Over here more and more shops are re-opening (with a modified interior to allow enough distance between people).

Yes, but we're currently ruining our economy with lock-downs, too. Germany is more than just car makers (which are in deep trouble, too, btw), but there's a huge amount of people in gastronomy, culture, tourism, etc) who cannot work. We'll loose most of our restaurants in a short while.

[SiliconWizard]

People will want to get back to this routine as soon as possible, and the longer they aren't allowed to do that the more pissed of people are going to be. They don't want a "new normal" and will not accept it in the long term, you'll see.

Of course. And as I said already, how could they not? If this "new normal" that some are talking about is just switching to a society where you're being constantly told what to do and when you can do it, it looks a lot like home detention. Already said that, but that's currently what we are subjected to. Home detention. Even people under real home detention have more freedom than we currently do. Who would want to live like this forever? Seriously? It's mind-boggling to me that some people seem to see it as OK or even desirable. Please help me understand.

[nctnico]

People will want to get back to this routine as soon as possible, and the longer they aren't allowed to do that the more pissed of people are going to be. They don't want a "new normal" and will not accept it in the long term, you'll see.

Of course. And as I said already, how could they not? If this "new normal" that some are talking about is just switching to a society where you're being constantly told what to do and when you can do it, it looks a lot like home detention. Already said that, but that's currently what we are subjected to. Home detention. Even people under real home detention have more freedom than we currently do. Who would want to live like this forever? Seriously? It's mind-boggling to me that some people seem to see it as OK or even desirable. Please help me understand.

Well, you are in France where they want everyone to stay at home. Such a situation cannot continue. But there are alternatives which are just as effective and don't require people to stay inside. Over here everything is OK for as long as you keep a distance and don't gather in groups (3 is a crowd). This effectively means over here we can still do most of the things we always did.

[Bud]

It is hardly can be considered OK with the country trailing China on the number of deaths and 183 deaths per million as of today.

[SiliconWizard]

People will want to get back to this routine as soon as possible, and the longer they aren't allowed to do that the more pissed of people are going to be. They don't want a "new normal" and will not accept it in the long term, you'll see.

Of course. And as I said already, how could they not? If this "new normal" that some are talking about is just switching to a society where you're being constantly told what to do and when you can do it, it looks a lot like home detention. Already said that, but that's currently what we are subjected to. Home detention. Even people under real home detention have more freedom than we currently do. Who would want to live like this forever? Seriously? It's mind-boggling to me that some people seem to see it as OK or even desirable. Please help me understand.

Well, you are in France where they want everyone to stay at home. Such a situation cannot continue. But there are alternatives which are just as effective and don't require people to stay inside. Over here everything is OK for as long as you keep a distance and don't gather in groups (3 is a crowd). This effectively means over here we can still do most of the things we always did.

Confinement is not just in France, FYI. Similar situation in many countries currently. But sure this can't be lasting and will have to end (although it may very well be decided again in the future, much more frequently than it ever did.)

But that's not just what I'm talking about. I was talking about everything people put behind the term "new normal", and everything that we can suppose might be.

"everything is OK for as long as you keep a distance and don't gather in groups (3 is a crowd)."
Do you call that normal? Seriously? Do you want to live in a world in which you can't be more than 3? In which you can't get close to anyone, meaning everyone is now a potential threat to anyone else? In which you may have to ask anyone to show you a certificate before getting closer than 1 or 2 m? Seriously?

I'm sure some of you have not thought this through really well, or are just reasoning as though ALL of this was temporary (which we can all hope for really), but here we were talking about what could be *permanent* after that.

[paulca]

In the UK we got sensible "guidance" first.  But a lot of people ignored it completely.  So they threatened enforcing it, people ignored them, so they enforced it.  They were so vague we had a week of the press asking, "okay, what can I do and what can't i do?", so they just made it "easy to police"...  house arrest basically. 

No driving around either which confused me.  If I'm alone or with members of my household, what difference does it make?  I'm at more risk being stopping by the police than just going on my way.

But this is to allow the police the power to stop people congregating enmass at tourist spots and beaches in teh good whether.  They claim it's to limit the dangers of breakdowns and accidents.  Bullshit I say to that.

[SiliconWizard]

FYI: https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/04/14/business/14reuters-health-coronavirus-amazon-france.html