Author Topic: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus  (Read 246917 times)

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Offline Zero999

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2000 on: July 18, 2020, 09:20:06 pm »
I know we have a no new COVID thread rule, so I thought I'd ask this here.

Does anyone think they've had COVID-19?

I'm pretty sure I've had it. Back in mid-March I had a cough, which slowly got worse. People at work started making comments, but I didn't take them seriously, until the team leader told me not to come in the following day. I spent a week off at home, keeping away from others, but still went for a cycle ride every day. The cough went and I called work asking if I could return, but they told me they were closing the company at the end of the week, as we were going into lockdown, so I stayed at home and kept away from others. I then noticed my toes felt sore and were covered in blisters, which turned out to be chilblains and the cleared up with in a week or so. At the time, I didn't think much of it. I thought they were caused by my house being quite chilly, sitting still at the computer and cycling and they cleared up as the weather warmed in spring.

Now I've seen evidence to suggest skin rashes such as chilblains are a common symptom of COVID-19, especially milder cases, which makes me believe I've had COVID-19.
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/skin-rash-should-be-considered-fourth-key-symptom-of-covid
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2001 on: July 18, 2020, 09:25:04 pm »
Who cares? If you had a positive test you can assume you had it, if not assume you haven't.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2002 on: July 18, 2020, 09:32:38 pm »
Who cares? If you had a positive test you can assume you had it, if not assume you haven't.
Good point. Just to be clear, I'm not sure enough that I've had it, that I believe I'm immune and would take any risks. I've just seen my nephews for the first time since lockdown and still kept my distance from them, because they live with their grandparents who are vulnerable.

I'm still interested about whether I've had it though. Unfortunately it's too long ago for an antibody test to confirm it.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2003 on: July 18, 2020, 11:21:12 pm »
Who cares? If you had a positive test you can assume you had it, if not assume you haven't.
Yes and op top of that you can't be sure you won't get it again. Can I have a Gilles de la Tourette attaque right now? I sure feel like it. Anyway... I'll be going on a holiday shortly. See how that goes in hotels and restaurants. I had to be in Amsterdam today and it is overrun with tourists as usual. Just no Chinese and American people.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Nusa

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2004 on: July 18, 2020, 11:28:44 pm »
Even if you know for sure that you had it, acting as if you are immune is a dangerous assumption in the case of CV19. That's not yet understood or proven. There are some data points that suggest that either any immunity can be short-lived or that a prior infection can reactivate.
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2005 on: July 18, 2020, 11:50:17 pm »
I think what it comes down to is there are just way too many people. I've watched the population in the area where I live explode throughout my lifetime and tens of thousands more people keep pouring in all the time, I don't even know where they're all coming from. There are far more people than there are nice locations where people want to live, as long as that's the case there will be housing shortages and people priced out of the market. We can't build our way out of this either, the more housing they build and the more affordable they make it, the more people flood in to fill it. It's like where they widen the roads over and over adding lanes and traffic never gets better.

Agreed. It does not help when government is addicted to immigration, like a druggo is addicted to heroin. They are looking for their next hit, a flood of cashed up "refugees" from Hong Kong. This will unfortunately keep housing prices high which the politicians see as a bonus for them personally. Irrespective of this Hong Kong issue, a rich foreigner can purchase permanent residency here legally, but the poor have no such "entitlement". This is shameful policy in this so-called egalitarian country. Our politicians don't give a rats arse about housing affordability. As long as their own nests are feathered.
 

Offline Nusa

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2006 on: July 18, 2020, 11:57:36 pm »
Just no Chinese and American people.

There is a loophole in that reality for those that hold the right passport, so you might run into a few.

For example, I know an American-born mother and daughter who have also have Italian citizenship by descent. As it happens, the daughter was planning to move and work in Italy pre-covid...and that's still happening next month. The American ban doesn't affect her at all.

And now that I stop to think, I believe I know a few dozen people living in the US that are also citizens of an EU country. In some cases, legal residents in the USA that don't have US citizenship at all.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 12:03:52 am by Nusa »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2007 on: July 19, 2020, 12:03:02 am »
Just no Chinese and American people.
There is a loophole in that reality for those that hold the right passport, so you might run into a few.
Those are not tourists!  :palm:
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2008 on: July 19, 2020, 12:33:24 am »
Even if you know for sure that you had it, acting as if you are immune is a dangerous assumption in the case of CV19. That's not yet understood or proven. There are some data points that suggest that either any immunity can be short-lived or that a prior infection can reactivate.

I'd still feel better knowing I'd already had it, that would suggest that it is not likely to be serious for me if it happens again. Of course nothing is guaranteed. Apparently the tests are not super accurate though, a false positive in the antibody test would be worse than not knowing.
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2009 on: July 19, 2020, 01:42:26 am »
The Victorian govt in Australia has just announced mask wearing in public is to be compulsory from midnight next Wednesday, else cop a $200 fine. That is great news. Strong authoritarian government is a good thing in the right context. At the other end of the scale we have the USA, which has weak and disunited government with many Americans refusing to wear a mask based upon selfishness and the fantasy of freedom.
 
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2010 on: July 19, 2020, 01:49:01 am »
The Victorian govt in Australia has just announced mask wearing in public is to be compulsory from midnight next Wednesday, else cop a $200 fine. That is great news. Strong authoritarian government is a good thing in the right context. At the other end of the scale we have the USA, which has weak and disunited government with many Americans refusing to wear a mask based upon selfishness and the fantasy of freedom.

Which mask are they specifying? If it's N95 then it's silly.

iratus parum formica
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2011 on: July 19, 2020, 02:51:48 am »
The Victorian govt in Australia has just announced mask wearing in public is to be compulsory from midnight next Wednesday, else cop a $200 fine. That is great news. Strong authoritarian government is a good thing in the right context. At the other end of the scale we have the USA, which has weak and disunited government with many Americans refusing to wear a mask based upon selfishness and the fantasy of freedom.

Where do you live? We've had a mask fine of $300USD, for a first offence, for a while where I live in California(Far and away the most populous state and significantly higher than all of Australia). I went for a walk today and I was the only person without a mask. It's been that way since before the fine was implemented... How many people do you estimate feel there is no freedom with a mask? I feel fairly confident you don't know what's going on here in America.
 

Online PlainName

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2012 on: July 19, 2020, 03:13:40 am »
Here in the UK we get a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop next week (but apparently a takeaway is OK since a cabinet member was photographed not wearing one - simpler to change the law than admit to being a dick). Anyway, so masks are going to be mandatory.

Yesterday I was in a local Aldo and maybe half of the patrons wore a mask. Today I was in a local Lidl a no-one wore a mask (well, two: me and the cashier). Depending on where I shopped I could honestly say the (forthcoming) rules were being completely ignored or mostly adhered to. And those shops were less than a mile apart.

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I feel fairly confident you don't know what's going on here in America

He might know more than you if he's going from a (reliable) source that sees things country-wide as opposed to you that sees the local view. Certainly, your description doesn't quite mesh with people being murdered for wearing a mask, or the police shooting a man that stabbed someone else because of a difference of view about masks.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2013 on: July 19, 2020, 03:16:16 am »
Where do you live? We've had a mask fine of $300USD, for a first offence, for a while where I live in California(Far and away the most populous state and significantly higher than all of Australia). I went for a walk today and I was the only person without a mask. It's been that way since before the fine was implemented... How many people do you estimate feel there is no freedom with a mask? I feel fairly confident you don't know what's going on here in America.

I don't really understand the freedom angle personally. "Freedom" doesn't mean we can all just do whatever the hell we want everywhere at all times. IMHO "Freedom" means you should be able to do whatever you want in your own home or on your own property so long as it doesn't negatively impact others beyond reason. Ok so now the government is forcing you to wear a mask in public because not wearing one has potentially serious consequences to others, they force you to wear pants in public too for similar reasons and have been for as long as the government has existed. Ironically I suspect the most "freedom loving" highly conservative areas would be some of the quickest to punish a person for walking around town in their birthday suit, and the punishment is probably a lot worse than a fine. I don't want to sit on a bus or restaurant seat with a skid mark on it and I don't want to sit next to someone who is potentially sick and not wearing a mask. When a person is at home they're free to go mask-less (and/or pants-less) if they so desire, it's a "free" country. Except people can still go to jail or even prison for engaging in certain activities in their own home. Can't smoke crack, snort a line of coke or many other drugs, not saying that should be allowed but the point is you don't have the freedom to do that in your own home even if you hypothetically do it responsibly. Some states even still have laws that regulate who you sleep with or what activities you engage in within your own bed, freedom, I guess.

So masks? Whatever, I can see the reasoning behind requiring them, people are required to wear a mask for the same reason they're required to stop at stop signs and aren't allowed to shoot guns up into the air in populated areas. The government is just performing their primary duty of protecting the citizens. If wearing a mask was only to protect the wearer then I'd feel differently, we don't need laws to protect everyone from themselves, we need laws to protect everyone from all the people who otherwise can't be bothered to care about anyone else.
 
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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2014 on: July 19, 2020, 03:18:31 am »
Search youtube Mark Dice Masks

 :(
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Offline maginnovision

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2015 on: July 19, 2020, 04:14:36 am »
Here in the UK we get a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop next week (but apparently a takeaway is OK since a cabinet member was photographed not wearing one - simpler to change the law than admit to being a dick). Anyway, so masks are going to be mandatory.

Yesterday I was in a local Aldo and maybe half of the patrons wore a mask. Today I was in a local Lidl a no-one wore a mask (well, two: me and the cashier). Depending on where I shopped I could honestly say the (forthcoming) rules were being completely ignored or mostly adhered to. And those shops were less than a mile apart.

Quote
I feel fairly confident you don't know what's going on here in America

He might know more than you if he's going from a (reliable) source that sees things country-wide as opposed to you that sees the local view. Certainly, your description doesn't quite mesh with people being murdered for wearing a mask, or the police shooting a man that stabbed someone else because of a difference of view about masks.

Except what I myself see isn't all there is and I know that. Where as I suspect HAM(sorry on a phone) has very few sources. You also can't look at a couple of stories about crazy people and extrapolate that to mean any significant portion of the country is looking to stab each other over silly things.

I have read very little about people going berserk over masks. If it were a real thing it would be common but even in our(US) biased media there aren't many examples. I also agree freedom doesn't mean do whatever you like and I'm pretty sure most people get that.

Even the people I know who don't want to wear a mask carry one with them if they need it. To really get a good idea you need to scour local media though, not national. National is 100% about ratings and local generally report on many many more individual stories. Of course doing that for say every large city and their smaller papers is not feasible for a normal person. However if I see that as many people are absolute non mask as there are BLM people I'd start to consider it could even be as high as .1% of the country.
 

Online PlainName

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2016 on: July 19, 2020, 04:43:37 am »
Quote
However if I see that as many people are absolute non mask as there are BLM people I'd start to consider it could even be as high as .1% of the country

Seems to be 59% (although that's deffos - only 14% say never and the rest are... who knows):

A Detailed Map of Who Is Wearing Masks in the U.S.

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The map shows broad regional patterns: Mask use is high in the Northeast and the West, and lower in the Plains and parts of the South. But it also shows many fine-grained local differences. Masks are widely worn in the District of Columbia, but there are sections of the suburbs in both Maryland and Virginia where norms seem to be different. In St. Louis and its western suburbs, mask use seems to be high. But across the Missouri River, it falls.
Quote
But research from a team that includes Shana Gadarian, an associate professor of political science at Syracuse University, has found that your political party is a better predictor of mask use than any other factor they measured. Her team compared people of the same age and living in the same ZIP code, and found partisan differences in mask behavior.
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2017 on: July 19, 2020, 05:50:28 am »
The Victorian govt in Australia has just announced mask wearing in public is to be compulsory from midnight next Wednesday, else cop a $200 fine. That is great news. Strong authoritarian government is a good thing in the right context. At the other end of the scale we have the USA, which has weak and disunited government with many Americans refusing to wear a mask based upon selfishness and the fantasy of freedom.

Where do you live? We've had a mask fine of $300USD, for a first offence, for a while where I live in California(Far and away the most populous state and significantly higher than all of Australia). I went for a walk today and I was the only person without a mask. It's been that way since before the fine was implemented... How many people do you estimate feel there is no freedom with a mask? I feel fairly confident you don't know what's going on here in America.

I probably know more about some aspects of the US that you might not because we have very broad TV and radio media coverage here that goes way beyond just our borders. I have travelled many times to the USA. In fact I lived in Austin, Texas. Your culture which is similar but not the same as ours. There are some subtle differences, but in general we are very much alike.

I live here in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia where the mask law is about to come in. Trumps religious and redneck followers refuse to wear masks at his rallies. A class of fools, without doubt.

As for freedom, just ask the many (mostly black) exonerees who in many states are treated like lepers after exoneration. Blokes who have lost 20 or 30 years of their lives due to corrupt cops, mistaken identity, or prejudicial justice will tell you there is no freedom. The USA has the highest level of incarceration on the planet. And no, we don't have a perfect record here either. In fact, we do not have free speech here, but you do to a much greater extent.

On a lighter note, according to the briliant BBC documentary, "The History of Rock and Roll", the mention of the word "freedom " in lyrics increases the probability of the song being a hit.

The person who says it is dangerous to breath in your own carbon monoxide is going "up there"  :palm:...



 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2018 on: July 19, 2020, 08:41:09 am »
Ignorance all 'round apparently.

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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2019 on: July 19, 2020, 08:43:50 am »
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2020/06/17/fauci-masks-n2570789


Quote
At the start of the coronavirus outbreak in the U.S., federal officials told the public they did not need to wear face masks. Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, said they only made people feel better but were pretty much pointless.


iratus parum formica
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2020 on: July 19, 2020, 09:52:08 am »
As for freedom, just ask the many (mostly black) exonerees who in many states are treated like lepers after exoneration. Blokes who have lost 20 or 30 years of their lives due to corrupt cops, mistaken identity, or prejudicial justice will tell you there is no freedom. The USA has the highest level of incarceration on the planet. And no, we don't have a perfect record here either. In fact, we do not have free speech here, but you do to a much greater extent.


The person who says it is dangerous to breath in your own carbon monoxide is going "up there"  :palm:...
You can't fix stupid. Unfortunately a mask only works for to catching outgoing particles. The stupid who are not wearing a mask when mandatory and not adhering to any precautions are more likely to catch Covid-19 and then spread it as well. A while ago someone posted numbers saying that a mask catches over 90% of the outgoing particles but only catches 50% of the incoming (and likely not taking into account you can get particles in your eyes and hands). Now that may sound nice until you start to figure out how to add to probabilities properly. You'd say a mask would catch half of the 10% that a mask is letting through. Wrong! You can't just add probabilities like this because they are related. You have subtract the probability that both probabilities occur at the same time. Now with a 90% probability that an outgoing particle is caught it is clear that using a mask for incoming particles adds very little protection. IOW: you are not wearing a mask to protect yourself but to protect others.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 10:13:33 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online dietert1

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2021 on: July 19, 2020, 10:14:02 am »
The effect of masks can be proven just by comparing numbers from China and USA. There must be a factor 100 more virus activity per capita in the US. I think that discussion is over. What Dr. Fauci said and what our German minister of health said in the beginning was the usual western arrogance (and they tried to hide being ill-prepared). I think people in China were much more aware of the risks due to the first SARS outbreak, especially the Chinese government.

Regards, Dieter
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2022 on: July 19, 2020, 10:42:11 am »
The effect of masks can be proven just by comparing numbers from China and USA. There must be a factor 100 more virus activity per capita in the US. I think that discussion is over. What Dr. Fauci said and what our German minister of health said in the beginning was the usual western arrogance (and they tried to hide being ill-prepared). I think people in China were much more aware of the risks due to the first SARS outbreak, especially the Chinese government.
That is complete nonsense. You can't make a comparison like that.  For starters China enforced a much stricter lock-down and offered way better medical care. China nipped the Covid-19 outbreak in the butt where the US failed miserably. You can't put that all on wearing masks. The fact is that many western countries have managed to suppress the Covid-19 outbreak without using masks. There are several downsides of using masks too; the general public may become too relaxed about keeping distance and getting together. Usually you wear a mask to protect against incoming 'threats' but in this case it is the other way around. It is easy for people to get fooled into a false sense of security.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 10:45:06 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online dietert1

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2023 on: July 19, 2020, 10:55:12 am »
All these problems of wearing masks did not happen in China. Wearing masks inside closed rooms like shops, offices makes the differences. We did not know that in the beginning, but we know now. The keyword is "Aerosol". And like James_S explained above: A well made, reusable mask has two layers of cotton and it is like socks or trousers. You need like 10 or more to have a fresh one each day and you wash them with your clothes and pass them hot. That's about it.

Of course, if you prefer a complete lockdown over wearing masks, you can stay at home - as long as money lasts.

Regards, Dieter
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
« Reply #2024 on: July 19, 2020, 11:21:58 am »
All these problems of wearing masks did not happen in China. Wearing masks inside closed rooms like shops, offices makes the differences. We did not know that in the beginning, but we know now. The keyword is "Aerosol". And like James_S explained above: A well made, reusable mask has two layers of cotton and it is like socks or trousers. You need like 10 or more to have a fresh one each day and you wash them with your clothes and pass them hot. That's about it.

Of course, if you prefer a complete lockdown over wearing masks, you can stay at home - as long as money lasts.

Regards, Dieter

Yes, that's true. I support a law enforcing masks in enclosed public spaces such as shops, but would disagree with one mandating them outside, unless it's in a crowd. I wouldn't want to have to wear a mask cycling to work, because there's no risk of me passing it on to anyone. I often see no pedestrians or other cyclists on my journey to work, so all a mask would do is make me more hot and sweaty and harder to breath, once it becomes damp.

Even if you know for sure that you had it, acting as if you are immune is a dangerous assumption in the case of CV19. That's not yet understood or proven. There are some data points that suggest that either any immunity can be short-lived or that a prior infection can reactivate.

I'd still feel better knowing I'd already had it, that would suggest that it is not likely to be serious for me if it happens again. Of course nothing is guaranteed. Apparently the tests are not super accurate though, a false positive in the antibody test would be worse than not knowing.
Unfortunately I didn't get tested and it's too long ago for an antibody test, so I'll never know, unless a quick memory T cell test becomes available. It's possible the cough was the common cold and my chilblains were the result of cycling in cold, wet weather and sitting still in a cool room, for hours on end. Lastly, even if I had it, it's not 100% proven I won't get it again, although it'd would be highly unlikely. Given this level of uncertainty, it would be foolish for me to presume I'm immune and ignore social distancing regulations.

At the moment, the majority of evidence seems to suggest that if someone has had it, they will have some level of immunity so are unlikely to get it again and if they do, the chances are it won't be as bad the next time, as is the case for most viral infections. Now that might not be true. It could be like polio which can come back later, but no other coronaviruses do that, so it seems unlikely. Either way, we need to err on the side of caution.

It's interesting there's less interest in the idea of immunity certificates, than there was a few weeks ago. I believe this is more to do with the fact they would encourage people in low risk groups to deliberately get infected and declared immune, so they'll have greater employment opportunities, than those who haven't had it. Unfortunately there's evidence to suggest the level of exposure also determines the severity of illness, so people who deliberately infect themselves by engaging in highly risky behaviours such as deliberately coughing on one another, kissing and other sexual activity, will become more ill, than those who catch it by picking it up off a supermarket trolley.
 


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