Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

[Bud]

Do you test that PTC with a meter? How you determine it has gone bad?

[bd139]

I'd like to see repair guy as a job come back. IMO appliances should cost at least 3-4 times what they do, they should be built to last and built to be repaired. My fridge is 18 years old and going strong, the fridge at our cabin was made in 1972 and it's still doing great too. My washer, dryer and dishwasher are all at least 15 years old, the washer and dryer were broken when I got them and I fixed them. The disposable society is crazy and the cost of products like this does not reflect their total cost to the environment.

People used to keep all this stuff much longer, when I was growing up it was not uncommon to see 15-20 year old white goods and TV sets and such in active use.

I’m not sure I agree. If you look at the supply chain required for managing spares for everything it had a larger environmental and trash output than scrapping the devices and introducing recycling legislation and restricting hazardous substances and difficult to recycle parts. I had a job once of running a van clearing out a warehouse of parts for pumps which were replaced by recyclable units. 225 metric tons of toxic landfill came out of that building. That’s the legacy of the 40s-80s thinking.

[cdev]

We all could do more for the environnment by buying less and fixing more than a LOT of other things which make the news frequently.

James, I am totally with you on this issue.

Did she look into having the old one fixed? I've fixed several refrigerators for people, most recently my mom. The most common problem by far that I've seen cause it to stop cooling is a failed PTC starter on the compressor. It's a ~$20-$40 part that takes 5 minutes to install and you're back in business. I've never understood why so many people are so quick to just write off a major appliance over a simple fault.

Many people are afraid that jobs will go away if we stop buying as much useless junk. Well, guess what, jobw will go away in large numbers in the coming years NOMATTER WHAT WE DO.

Sothe lext time somebody says "do this or we'll lose so many jobs, think long and hard and deep about what theyre saying. And keep in mind that we'll lose the jobs anyway. Many jobs are literally gone already, people just dont know it. These are jobs that we already know how to automate and we lose nothing because of it.

Except the jobs. We need to start discussing how we deal with the economics of a work sparse future.

[SilverSolder]

I doubt the future will be "work sparse",  but it will very likely be "menial task sparse".

[PlainName]

People used to keep all this stuff much longer, when I was growing up it was not uncommon to see 15-20 year old white goods and TV sets and such in active use.

How old is your phone? Still doing OK on that 8086-based PC browsing t'web?

[dietert1]

On German TV there was a report that in cities like Frankfurt companies are downsizing their office areas. They are trying to rent smaller buildings and move. In another report they showed a bank manager who said: "Right now we have 60 000 people working for us at home. Nobody could have imagined that will work, but there we are." As far as i understand, Covid19 may have a persistent impact simplifying the life of many. Of course some people will have difficulties to adapt, so it will take time. My hope would be that individual traffic as well as CO2 emissions will stay low. And yes, spending time to fix things instead of waiting in a traffic jam is an improvement.

Regards, Dieter

[nctnico]

I'd like to see repair guy as a job come back. IMO appliances should cost at least 3-4 times what they do, they should be built to last and built to be repaired.

But you are not considering the savings by replacing an old appliance earlier. Newer appliances are more energy efficient so in the end you likely end up with a device which costs less to use. Which in turn means it needs less energy. In the end you pay for energy costs to produce something.

[tom66]

I'd like to see repair guy as a job come back. IMO appliances should cost at least 3-4 times what they do, they should be built to last and built to be repaired. My fridge is 18 years old and going strong, the fridge at our cabin was made in 1972 and it's still doing great too. My washer, dryer and dishwasher are all at least 15 years old, the washer and dryer were broken when I got them and I fixed them. The disposable society is crazy and the cost of products like this does not reflect their total cost to the environment.

I like things to be built like Clive's washing machine:


That is, individual modules that are easily serviceable.  I understand, things go wrong.  Make the parts available, and not too difficult to replace, and an appliance can be kept running for decades.

The charging port on my VW Golf GTE has started to play up.  For some godforsaken reason VW integrated the charging port lock into the main wiring harness, whereas BMW put it on a separate connector.  So to replace that to "Dealer Standard" would be a new wiring harness plus labour, because it is "HV system" it will likely cost more than £600 for what is a £10 actuator.  I'm gonna fix it myself somehow, because I refuse to bow down to that crap.

[james_s]

But you are not considering the savings by replacing an old appliance earlier. Newer appliances are more energy efficient so in the end you likely end up with a device which costs less to use. Which in turn means it needs less energy. In the end you pay for energy costs to produce something.

Got data to back that up?

Refrigerators had a very significant efficiency boost sometime around 30-40 years ago due to new insulation technology. Washing machine efficiency increased when the front loading machines became popular. These significant bumps are rare though, things like clothes dryers from a few years ago are virtually indistinguishable inside from clothes dryers made 50 years ago. Replacing a 30 year old appliance with a modern one may result in a significant efficiency boost, but replacing one that is 10 years old likely won't, unless it happens to cross one of those occasional breakthroughs where efficiency is bumped up. The "upgrading now will save you money" is largely a lie pushed by salespeople, if you look at the actual energy efficiency ratings and compare it to the one from the appliance you're replacing you'll likely find it to be underwhelming.

Given the total cost of running my refrigerator (I've measured the consumption over several days with a kill a watt) even if I upgraded to a new one that consumed zero energy it would take around 5 years to pay for itself. In reality a new refrigerator is going to consume much more than zero energy, a more realistic number is perhaps a 20% reduction which puts the break even time well beyond a decade. That's completely ignoring the environmental cost of transporting and scrapping the old fridge, extracting and refining the materials to build a new one and then transporting that.

[themadhippy]

The "upgrading now will save you money" is largely a lie pushed by salespeople,

or bureaucrats who limit the power of devices to "save the planet" but fail to mention half the power takes double the time,so energy used is still the same

[NiHaoMike]

These significant bumps are rare though, things like clothes dryers from a few years ago are virtually indistinguishable inside from clothes dryers made 50 years ago.

I don't think heat pump dryers existed 50 years ago.

[coppice]

I don't think heat pump dryers existed 50 years ago.

Yes and no. Dedicated heat pump dryers are not that old, but many people have been drying clothes with heat pump based dehumidifers since they were first introduced. There are some pretty old dehumidifiers with steerable vents specifically for drying clothes.

[paulca]

I don't think heat pump dryers existed 50 years ago.

Yes and no. Dedicated heat pump dryers are not that old, but many people have been drying clothes with heat pump based dehumidifers since they were first introduced. There are some pretty old dehumidifiers with steerable vents specifically for drying clothes.

I used to do this when I lived in a flat.  I used my mobile air-con unit.  I pointed the warm exhaust at the clothing rack and allowed the air-con unit keep the humidity under control.

When I forgot to wash my favourite jeans for a night out, I was able to wash them in 30 minutes and by stuffing the exhaust hose up the jeans directly they were dried in 20 minutes.

EDIT:  On white goods longevity.  There have been changes proposed by the industry recently (last few years).  Previously they were manufacturing goods with a 10 year warranty and building things to last that long or be repaired to last that long.. or longer. 

However the industry are claiming that as people are tending more often now to changing things around in their kitchens, like SWMBO wants silver fronts or black fronts for whatever reason.  They are opting to build them cheaper and only give them a 5 year warranty and virtually no options to repair them. 

So instead of a washing machine that costs £350 and lasts 10 years with repair options and part available, you can now pick one up for £180 that lasts 5 years and cannot be repaired... or is certainly not economical to repair.  They are obviously receiving flak for this, rightfully so.

[VK3DRB]

You blokes have been warned... this thread is about to be LOCKED, after devolving into a rambling mess not related to the topic. LOCKING COMMENCING - 10...9...8...7...

Speaking of which many Melburnians are now in lock down, working from home for at least another six weeks, after the second wave has started. Those whinging, whining and moaning we are in lock down again should have a damn good look at themselves in the mirror because they are part of the problem for not socially distancing or wearing masks in public. 

[tom66]

I'm just waiting for the second wave in the UK.  It's not gone away.

[Zero999]

People used to keep all this stuff much longer, when I was growing up it was not uncommon to see 15-20 year old white goods and TV sets and such in active use.

How old is your phone? Still doing OK on that 8086-based PC browsing t'web?

No, but at home I use an Intel dueo of 2007 vintage, for browsing the web. Imagine using a 13 year old machine to browse the web, back in 2007. It's no longer necessary to upgrade every three years, like it was in the 1990s/2000s.

I'm just waiting for the second wave in the UK.  It's not gone away.

I expect that will happen during the run up to Christmas.

Interestingly many governments will be ramping flu vaccinations this year, as flu+COVID-19 = really bad disease, but there's some evidence to suggest having a flu jab may increase the risk of getting more severe COVID-19. I don't have the research links handy, but will post them later and edit this post, if necessary.

EDIT Research papers:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404712/
https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1932/rr-15
https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m810/rr-0

Nothing definitive, but more research is required, before flu vaccination is rolled out to everyone.

[Syntax Error]

Here's a thing for our UK members and others. I learned today of a family friend who was hospitalised with Covid-like symptoms in mid-December last year. He lives and works in Liverpool, and recently tested positive for Corana virus antibodies. So did he have Covid19 before xmas 2019? No-one is willing to say because this would kind of blow a hole in the official timeline. Suffice to say, when he originally went to his doctor with breathing problems, he was given antibiotics (sic). A few days later he was in the ICU. He made a full recovery, but is rightly sceptical of his 'pneumonia' diagnosis.

[bd139]

Yeah we lost a huge number of staff at the start of Jan to a similarly defined mystery illness. Everyone recovered.

[Syntax Error]

Yeah we lost a huge number of staff at the start of Jan to a similarly defined mystery illness. Everyone recovered.

There now seems to be an overwhelming dataset of anecdotal evidence to suggest that in the UK in December 2019, a Covid19-like pathogen was established and circulating widely. Any inquiry would have to consider this but, this as a conclusion might suggest certain medical agencies and goverment departments were asleep on watch. Allegedly.

[paulca]

What is troubling me right now is "They think it's all over".  The UK is dropping quarantine for travellers, relaxing lock down even more.  Northern Ireland had it under control, but they too are relaxing traveller quarantine.

However globally the virus is accelerating not dropping.  It will not end well.

We went into lock down when there was 20k new cases per day.  Now there are 200k and we open the borders and tell people to come on in and mix, go to the pub have parties.

[coppice]

What is troubling me right now is "They think it's all over".  The UK is dropping quarantine for travellers, relaxing lock down even more.  Northern Ireland had it under control, but they too are relaxing traveller quarantine.

However globally the virus is accelerating not dropping.  It will not end well.

We went into lock down when there was 20k new cases per day.  Now there are 200k and we open the borders and tell people to come on in and mix, go to the pub have parties.

I think the policy is to maximise the economic damage with a lock down, and then maximise the number of elderly cleared out of care homes to reduce the bills and cover the cost of the economic damage.

[paulca]

I think the policy is to maximise the economic damage with a lock down, and then maximise the number of elderly cleared out of care homes to reduce the bills and cover the cost of the economic damage.

The banks are not suffering economic damage a lot of them are reporting extremely high profits this quarter.

[coppice]

I think the policy is to maximise the economic damage with a lock down, and then maximise the number of elderly cleared out of care homes to reduce the bills and cover the cost of the economic damage.

The banks are not suffering economic damage a lot of them are reporting extremely high profits this quarter.

The banks are an exception - aren't they usually? They had a government mandated scheme to make extra profits during the shutdown, squeezing businesses on survival loans.

[paulca]

I think the policy is to maximise the economic damage with a lock down, and then maximise the number of elderly cleared out of care homes to reduce the bills and cover the cost of the economic damage.

The banks are not suffering economic damage a lot of them are reporting extremely high profits this quarter.

The banks are an exception - aren't they usually? They had a government mandated scheme to make extra profits during the shutdown, squeezing businesses on survival loans.

It's not that.  Unrest causes market instability.  Market instability makes traders profit.  Traders trade through and with investment banks.  It's basically vulture capitalism.

[SilverSolder]

What is troubling me right now is "They think it's all over".  The UK is dropping quarantine for travellers, relaxing lock down even more.  Northern Ireland had it under control, but they too are relaxing traveller quarantine.

However globally the virus is accelerating not dropping.  It will not end well.

We went into lock down when there was 20k new cases per day.  Now there are 200k and we open the borders and tell people to come on in and mix, go to the pub have parties.

I think the policy is to maximise the economic damage with a lock down, and then maximise the number of elderly cleared out of care homes to reduce the bills and cover the cost of the economic damage.

Consider also that any younger person they manage to off is one less elderly person to care for in the future - bonus!