Windows is getting disgusting

[MrSlack]

Yes. I classify myself as a Linux guy and I still use windows (10) on the desktop because to be honest it's not a gigantic turdzilla like all the other offerings.

I'm an RHCE and a MSDN enterprise sub. That one melts people's brains. Still the best way to win is sit on the fence and empty the wallets of both sides.

[miguelvp]

I just bought a slide rule on eBay. It doesn't have an operating system. Less to argue incoherently about....

I remember not being allowed to use a slide ruler my dad gave me and I brought it to school. I get that I needed to memorize my multiplication tables and I already knew them but I was just trying to show how cool this thing was that could do logs (I was extremely young but don't recall exactly how old, under 8 or so). Of course there were not pocket calculators back then.

Anyway, the institution didn't allow me to use my non operating system based computing device 

[Karel]

Why should they? Isn't Linux good enough? It's already the most used OS.

OK, so you claim.

Regarding the desktop, if enough people switch, the applications will follow.
Instead, if most people wait till their application has been ported to Linux, they can wait forever.
Typical chicken/egg problem. So, if you want to make it happen, it's up to you. Don't wait for others to do it for you.

Huh? So it is the most used OS according to you, but programs aren't getting ported because there aren't enough users? 

There is a difference between an OS and a desktop OS. Regarding marketshare, Linux is king, just not on the desktop.

If you feell that Linux (on the desktop) is missing important applications, the only way to change that, is to abandon
applications that don't support Linux. As long as people are not willing to do that, nothing is going to change (on the desktop).

[MrSlack]

I expect nothing less of educational establishments. Now they kick out TI84 operators...

[Lightages]

If you feell that Linux (on the desktop) is missing important applications, the only way to change that, is to abandon
applications that don't support Linux. As long as people are not willing to do that, nothing is going to change (on the desktop).

It is not a matter of dumping applications, it is abandoning being able to do certain tasks. I have no ties to any specific software. I use what does the work. It is not possible to do the work in Linux that you can do in Windows, regardless of what software is available. Every Linux "guru", or fan, or nut, has always told me the same thing. I am an idiot, or a Windows noob, or close minded, because I want to do a certain job with my computer that Linux doesn't have the way to do it. There is a reason this emoticon is available on most forums....

[Mechanical Menace]

I have no ties to any specific software. I use what does the work. It is not possible to do the work in Linux that you can do in Windows, regardless of what software is available.

For you not for others. You have unspecified problems you refuse to elaborate on more  than "people called me stupid" and contrary to what you've said above that certain apps aren't on Linux and you don't want to learn new ones. I know genuinely stupid people who have much less problems with a Linux distro than a Windows install and bloody geniuses who have to swallow their pride and ask how to do something simple, and they've never had the problems getting help from the community that you have. Ever thought that the attitude problem might not be those communities but yours?

But meh I can't be bothered going through this whole thread but I'll do the best I can from memory. You want distro suggestions, LTS Ubuntu, CentOS, or OpenSuse. You may have tried them years ago but how much has Windows or OSX changed in that time? Free video editor try this http://cinelerra.org/2015/index.php . Free EDA there's KiCad. Free photo editor there's Gimp. CAD package, meh I love OpenSCAD but admittedly not for everyone. Missing anything? Stop being a massive cock and say what or just admit you don't actually want it.

I will happily help anyone who's prepared to be helped. If in the long run we can get everything sorted keep your money. They'll still be some niggles, like there is with the software you paid much more than your "bounty" for, but if they're that bad take that $2000 and donate it to the project in question or donate a weeks worth of hours fixing it yourself. Or seeing that 40 hours is probably worth much more than 2 grand to you how many hours it's worth.




Afterthought, maybe some sort of crowdfunding "feature bounty" site for FOSS could be a good idea. Somebody can propose an improvement, say making Cinelerra portable, others who want it can back the idea and pledge say a maximum £5 per person*. It isn't collected until the feature is not just in the source control repos but in releases. Or only a portion is as a forward by backers who specifically state they trust the person or group offering to do the work and they can have blah % of their backing upfront? Just a thought as many computer users in general are not prepared to pay for a single piece of software but will happily make donations or back dodgy Kickstarter campaigns.


*Maybe also allow organisations to pledge as much as they want?

[amspire]

Lightages, every Linux supporter fully understands what you are saying. You can do real electronics design work in Linux, but there are some tools that only run in Windows. If you have to use those tools, you have to use Windows - no argument. A lot of Apple MAC users have to use Windows as well for the same reason.

Microsoft do realise that there are a lot of people so "hooked" into the Windows environment, that no matter what Microsoft do to Windows, those people will have to just accept it.

But anyone can make a decision not to be hooked totally to Windows. Just like people can decide to stop drinking alcohol or stop taking drugs. For some of us, the time for a change is now. We can still use Windows for that 5GByte development package, but for browsing, office documents, KiCad PCB design, LTSpice4 (running on Wine), Krita, etc we can use Linux. We will get the advantages of all the things you can do in Linux that you cannot do in Windows.

For others, choosing to accept Microsoft's direction and live with it is another choice. You will get all the gee-whiz goodies that will get thrown in along the way and that might be fun. There are a lot of very smart people choosing to just go along with the Microsoft ride.

[rsjsouza]

A PSA for the "bounty hunters"  O0

I use my computer to make videos, images, music, documents, websites, programming, work with email, web browsing, watch movies, gaming, etc.

Products used: Adobe CC, Sony Vegas Pro, both with purchased plugins, Steam and all the games I have with it, KiCad, Autodesk Inventor, Reaper, and a bunch of other things. I also calibrate my monitors with a Spyder 3, use a Wacom tablet, Logitech wireless joystick, Brother DCM1512 multifunction printer, an HP Laserjet CP1025nw color printer, SDR radio devices, and a bunch of other generic USB devices.

I use both OSes and understand both sides of the argument: Microsoft keeps undermining the chances of users like us having a very stable and somewhat private workstation, thus at a certain point this will become more critical than the time to invest in re-learning new applications - especially given that most professional packages are Windows only.

[Lightages]

Stop being a massive cock and say what or just admit you don't actually want it.

 
You have no time to read what I have said and then accuse me of not specifying what my problems are, and then call me a massive cock? Sorry I don't have time to repeat myself every time someone decides that they are too important to read something already written. I made a statement, offer money to back up my statement, and then get personal attacks. What happened to answering the assertion instead of the person? It certainly seems that rsjsouza was able to find what I said I do with my computer, without any problems.

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

I use my computer to make videos, images, music, documents, websites, programming, work with email, web browsing, watch movies, gaming, etc.

Products used: Adobe CC, Sony Vegas Pro, both with purchased plugins, Steam and all the games I have with it, KiCad, Autodesk Inventor, Reaper, and a bunch of other things. I also calibrate my monitors with a Spyder 3, use a Wacom tablet, Logitech wireless joystick, Brother DCM1512 multifunction printer, an HP Laserjet CP1025nw color printer, SDR radio devices, and a bunch of other generic USB devices.

If anyone can point me to one single Linux distro and all the software that will do everything to that I can do with the above software, there is a finder's fee of a considerable amount. I am betting nobody will be able to collect. If I have no choice in the future but to move to Win10, I will go to Linux and deal with multiboot and the whole BS of trying to make everything  work.

As it is now, the Win10 issue is avoidable, but with some effort. it is a trojan horse, virus,and rootkit all in one. So are the special updates for Win7 that are constantly being pushed as updates that you don't need. Microsoft is acting like hackers trying to botnet your computer and steal your personal data, passwords, and allow illegal search by the government.

Found it. page 7.

It's going to be hard to find a distro that runs a "bunch of other things" and unspecified games so no point really grandstanding about it.
Any serious contract requires a serious specification, you haven't provided that.

That said, I can see why you run windows if that's the software you want to use.

[Lightages]

It's going to be hard to find a distro that runs a "bunch of other things" and unspecified games so no point really grandstanding about it.
Any serious contract requires a serious specification, you haven't provided that.

That said, I can see why you run windows if that's the software you want to use.

I did say in another post that if anyone was serious about taking me up on my offer that I would supply a full specification of my hardware and software. The software I use is to accomplish tasks. I am not married to any software. The list of software is to illustrate the kind of work I need to accomplish with whatever software is available. I will use whatever software is available for Linux to do the same work and have the same end product.

If it appears that I am grandstanding, it is because I always get the same attitude and assumptions from those who criticize me.

I never said that I want Linux to work like Windows. I never said that I want to use exact equivalents nor the same software I am using now. I have said many times that I tried to make Linux work for my needs for a year without success because the programs I needed to use broke each other's dependencies.  I compiled my own kernels and programs to try and fix the problem. I tried different distros to try to fix the problem.

When I asked people on Linux forums for help in making something work that wasn't in the native repository of the distro I was using, I was told to stop being stupid and multi-boot to different distros to do the work I was doing. I would be told on one hand that I could make Linux do any work I could do in Windows, and then was told I was stupid for trying to use Linux on latest hardware and for trying to use one piece of software when it wasn't in the native repository. I would be told I was expecting too much from Linux.

I would be told I was using the wrong distro and that I really should try X or Y or Z distro and it would fix all my problems. I was told that needing 32bit color depth in my photo and video editing was not possible and I would have to live without it. When I wanted to do monitor calibration on a multiple monitor setup, I was told it was not possible.

I will be supplying a full list of all my software work requirements and my hardware and will attach it to a post soon. Maybe this will make some difference in the types of responses I get.

[Syntax_Error]

I hope the discussion moves on from the round and round "I hate Linux, nobody can say otherwise" soon, as the last two pages have been quite boring. As a casual reader of this thread, I had higher hopes than this...

We get it, some people cannot be productive on Linux, due to lack of acceptable software, hardware support problems, or other issues. It's also apparent that some people take issue with how Microsoft operates and treats customers/the market. Can we stop repeating the same things over and over and say something new?

Next in line...

[MrSlack]

So... BeOS

[Lightages]

I have being using the software/script from here for a while now.
https://github.com/th3power/aegis-voat
The author is to be commended for his work to help kill the problems with forced updates on Win7 and other versions. It is continuously updated and improved and I have had no occurrences of W10 updates showing up, nor the W10 style spying back doors that MS is trying to force everyone to take. I highly recommend his script.

So far I don't know anyone has seen any software that requires the use of W10. If in the future companies like Adobe start forcing W10 to use their software I will move to a different OS altogether. Linux here I come?

[Lightages]

Can we stop repeating the same things over and over and say something new?

Sounds good to me. Let's start by trying to come up with alternatives to having to put up with MS forcing its way on everyone.

I am investigating the best way to approach Linux again. So far I am considering Linux Mint or Arch. Mint because it is well supported, has a huge repository, and is relatively easy to set up and use. Arch because it is always up to date if you want and probably won't need total re-installation when its base is abandoned for a newer version like with Mint.

The difficulties with switching to Linux for most people will be the lack of support for certain games, some hardware, and maybe too many choices. The problems for me will be meeting all my rather specific work needs. I suppose that a VM or two will help some or most of my problems.

The only other real alternative IMHO is to go Mac. I am not sure that this is much better than staying with MS but it is a stable and well supported OS for those who want to do the same kind of varied work as I do. The problem with switching to Mac is the added cost of switching hardware. That I am not likely to do and most others probably not too unless it is time to do a hardware refresh anyway.

I will start listing software that I find for Linux that probably can be a full substitute for what I use in Windows. My problem, I am rather picky and stubborn about what I want/need.

[Syntax_Error]

I technically use both Linux and Windows 10, although I rarely use Windows 10. I have it so I can use software that will not run in WINE or runs badly in WINE. It is a necessary evil for me, but one I am willing to put up with for the present meantime. *There is no* single OS solution if you are dependent upon either MS products directly, or the MS Windows ecosystem for software you want to run. I am in this situation, too, along with millions of others.

I happen to love using Linux Mint for general computing, and when I get new software, I try to see if I can get software that runs on Mint or can be made easily to run on Mint. If not, then I just get and use the Windows version and don't cry about it. Is it ideal for me? Absolutely not; I'd rather use only Linux, but that isn't the state of affairs yet, so I use both.

The FOSS types will not accept this as a viable solution, but for practicality, it won't be long before every application (or suite) you want to run will be offered as a cloud service. On several levels, I dislike the trend and the idea, but it is going to happen. Again, dropping the ideology and remaining practical, my preference would be to use native Linux software resident on my machine, but I'd still prefer not to run Windows at all. So, if I *have* to use Windows ecosystem software, I would consider cloud based software on a case by case basis.

One issue with GNU/Linux is the rabid fervor against proprietary software. It has its merits and its problems. I have no dog in this race, so I use what's best for me: sometimes it's FOSS, sometimes it's proprietary, sometimes it's a mix. If you choose not to partake in the rallying for FOSS, Linux is quite nice and quiet.

[rdl]

What would be a good cheap way to switch the output from a cable modem? I've found some RJ-45 switches for under $20, do these work well?

The idea would be to have the local network connected most of the time, but be able to temporarily switch the connection over to a Windows 10 (games only) computer when necessary, while keeping the spy box isolated from the local network. Plugging and unplugging cables is obviously one solution, just not very convenient.

[madires]

What would be a good cheap way to switch the output from a cable modem? I've found some RJ-45 switches for under $20, do these work well?

The idea would be to have the local network connected most of the time, but be able to temporarily switch the connection over to a Windows 10 (games only) computer when necessary, while keeping the spy box isolated from the local network. Plugging and unplugging cables is obviously one solution, just not very convenient.

You could use some inexpensive router supported by OpenWrt, separate one ethernet port for the Win10 PC (second LAN) and add firewall rules which allow the Win10 PC to access the internet but not the normal LAN. It's like a guest WLAN.

[Lightages]

A problem with trying to block W10 from secretly accessing their spyware servers is that the kernel itself has some kind of back door running. MS admitted this. You can block certain traffic using firewall settings in a router but this is no guarantee that the kernel isn't tunneling through on some other connection that you need to let through.

[rdl]

I would want complete physical separation from the local network for the Windows 10 game machine. It would be used for absolutely nothing but games. I suppose Steam would live there too. Both of them can sniff around and report back whatever they want because that's all that will be there.



edit: This is what I'm looking at:

             http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=1373

[Mechanical Menace]

Stop being a massive cock and say what or just admit you don't actually want it.

 
You have no time to read what I have said and then accuse me of not specifying what my problems are, and then call me a massive cock? Sorry I don't have time to repeat myself every time someone decides that they are too important to read something already written. I made a statement, offer money to back up my statement, and then get personal attacks.

That was related to the specific matter of the problems you've had with distros and getting help but refuse to give any details about. It comes across like you think your too important to answer questions you don't like and/or don't fit into your narrative.

What happened to answering the assertion instead of the person?

I honestly think the "I'm too important do my bidding NOW" attitude may have been a problem, as mentioned in my post which you've ignored all but one bit of. It wasn't an insult but a comment on conduct. Really being called a massive cock when you're being a massive cock is an insult to you? I expect and accept it when I am. I am being one right now because of getting sick of being called an elitist snob when I've repeatedly said "the best OS is the one that works for you."

It certainly seems that rsjsouza was able to find what I said I do with my computer, without any problems.

That post contradicted the statement that you aren't tied to certain software just getting the work done so I thought you were just moving goalposts and using "I won't tell you what I want because I've already said it" to try and hide that. And sorry but you do come across very... confrontational just for the sake of it.

EDIT: All of that aside the offer to help you find a distro you like and get the sort of software you want working on it is still there. Still aren't interested in your cash and I'll even stop being an elitist nobby arsehole

[Lightages]

OK Mechanical Menace, let's say I have been a massive cock and I have been less than useful in helping myself. Maybe this is so. I am not going to argue a point of perception as I might have been at fault with my way of bitching.

Let's move on and try to help those who don't want the raping that MS seems to want and maybe we can cooperate on showing alternatives and solutions. I have already started on a different path in this thread. I am looking at Linux again and would appreciate help in getting things up and running. I am considering Mint, Arch, and maybe even using unRAID to get some solutions that aren't possible with just one OS. It would be great to have the option to use different OSes at the same time with no performance penalties, or at least not big penalties.

IMHO, I think it is obvious that we can't continue with MS and feel like we have control over our computers, files, and privacy.

[Syntax_Error]

I use Windows' own firewall rules to block various ports, services, and IP addresses, and disable various services through the management console. It works quite well, actually. I employ a hardware firewall, also with port and IP filtering for inbound and outbound connections. I started by blacklisting the list of IPs associated with MS found on internet lists, then set up my windows 10 PC on it's own connection and logged all traffic activity through the firewall. Then I block every port (outbound and inbound), as I am not using the PC, so all traffic is unrelated to me. It's actually not hard to do, and so far, every time I add a port, IP, or service to the Windows built-in firewall, my router stops recording attempted access from them, so it seems to be working, even from within Windows.

In fact, I have easily disabled updates this way, simply by deactivating the update service. Sometimes I have even forgot that I did that, and wondered why I was never getting any updates. Reenabled the service, and voila, updates.

[Lightages]

Please remember that MS has admitted that you can't disable or stop all of the W10 spyware. You might think you have killed everything, but they still have a back door in the kernel that nobody can control or stop.

[Syntax_Error]

True. I get what you are saying. That's not what I am claiming to be stopping. In fact, what you mention is a primary reason I do not do my general computing on Windows.

What I specified gets rid of mass-surveillance style phoning home. It does not protect you from targeted surveillance, or also zero-day backdoor mass surveillance as yet unrevealed. It is only for current mass surveillance. And for that, it works very well, surprisingly well in fact. Windows surveillance is also why I recommend encrypting your /home folder if you dual boot Linux/Windows 10, as there is no guarantee that Windows cannot/will not read your Linux partition filesystems.