Windows is getting disgusting

[amspire]

I use Linux and Windows 8.1.

I have never understood the complaints about 8.1 - when properly configured so you don't use Metro ( only use 1 Metro window - the apps window), I think it is better then Windows 7. There is not one W7 feature I am missing, and for me W8.1 has been totally solid. Most of the time, using it is the same as W7, except running programs from the start button is different and faster then W7.

The big problem is the Microsoft monitoring/spyware additions but to cure that are partly in updated W7 and to a bigger extent in W8.1.  I am trying Ancile that is a fork of the no-longer developed Aegis script.

https://bitbucket.org/matthewlinton/ancile/  (Windows 7 and 8.x only - not Windows 10)

It disables and uninstalls a lot of the unwanted features, and they seem to have really thought it through. Things like changing the timeservers, so that Microsoft cannot log you that way, and adding 248 Microsoft domains in the hosts file which are all redirected to 0.0.0.0. Solutions like this are really only for people who understand what is going on in Ancile, but it looks like a pretty major disconnection. I did a Windows update and it still worked, but the removed updates have not tried to re-appear yet. So far, Windows is behaving like the spyware updates have vanished for good, but we will see what happens when i have to do a cumulative update. Probably have to get the latest Ancile and run it again.

If it does work in the long term, it means I have another 6 years of safe Windows use. I did the free upgrade to Windows 10 on most of my PC's using a sysprep Win10 installation on a temporary disk before the end of the first year, but I haven't permanently upgraded any hardware to W10.

The only W10 I have is an activated Virtualbox VM. By the way, when you clone an activated Windows VM in Virtualbox, the clone is  un-activated, but it is not hard to set all clones to be activated. I can dig up the details if anyone wants to know.

Richard.

[eugenenine]

It still takes time to research and find those fixes and apply them when we shouldn't have to.  That takes tie away from things I want to do.

My son , on windows 10, wrote some code to his arduino, walked downstairs to show me then walked back up stairs and now the Arduino software doesn't have permissions to use some file in \program files.  When would Windows make a change at random like that?  Now I have to waste both of our time to fix another silly windows issue that shouldn't be necessary,  Imagine if we were a production shop and my employee can't program his microcontroller due to another windows issue, how much $ is lost.

[CraigHB]

The reason is that the PC market is saturated and it's a mature product. Everyone already has a PC, or two or three, few have a need to upgrade with any regularity anymore, a 5 or even 10 year old PC will still do everything most people need and that would have been unheard of 20 years ago.

Yes that's a big part of it.  I have several desktop PCs and haven't changed the base hardware on them for a good number of years.  Though I've done some smaller upgrades like switching to SSDs, the motherboards and processors have not been touched for quite some time.  Honestly the machines do all I ask of them with plenty of speed, there's really no issue there.  Granted I'm not doing professional development, but I do run an array of fairly demanding engineering software.  So yeah, you don't need to be running out to buy a new desktop PC every couple three years, it's just not necessary.  On the other hand, people replace phones and tablets at the breakneck pace you used to see with PCs years ago.

I don't see myself abandoning the desktop PC any time soon, as mentioned it's where the real work gets done.  Unfortunately Microsoft thinks everyone's PC should look like a tablet or phone, hence the windows 8.0 disaster with the lack of a start menu.  We get that "cow goes moo" desktop appearance with the latest versions of Windows because of that.  Not just Windows though, it seems every user interface for every device is trying to emulate that touchscreen look now.  It's fine for a phone or other touchscreen device, but really sucks on a desktop computer or any other device that lacks a touchscreen.

[eugenenine]

And websites that have 'the ipad look'.

My son wants 10 on his laptop, since it needs reinstalled anyway, it did updates and rebooted and died.  I went to microsoft's site and entered the license key and it let me download the iso.  Burned it and it boots and starts the install then says the license key is invalid.

[james_s]

Much of the reason people replace phones so often is that we carry them around in our pocket everywhere we go and they get dropped/sat on and broken. I'm on my second mobile phone in 10 years so I'm obviously an anomaly but I've always treated my phone as the expensive pocket computer that it is and take good care of it. That said, smartphone and tablet sales are slowing drastically, I think they are about a decade behind PCs in that curve, although they will never be quite as long lasting as a PC due to the breakage issue. 

[slicendice]

And websites that have 'the ipad look'.

My son wants 10 on his laptop, since it needs reinstalled anyway, it did updates and rebooted and died.  I went to microsoft's site and entered the license key and it let me download the iso.  Burned it and it boots and starts the install then says the license key is invalid.

What site have you been on? Microsoft does not require you to give away any license keys just because you want to download the ISO image. You simply just go and grab the ISO.

Where did you purchase the license from?

If you bought an upgrade license then you can not enter it in the box where Windows asks for a key when you do a clean install. You can simply skip this step and enter the key later, once Windows is installed.


EDIT: It seems MS has changed this once again. You need to download the Media Creation Tool then you can download the ISO. Either way, you can not use the Upgrade key while you are clean installing Windows 10, you need to provide the key at a later time, once it's time to activate Windows.

[madires]

What site have you been on? Microsoft does not require you to give away any license keys just because you want to download the ISO image. You simply just go and grab the ISO.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7 clearly asks for the product key. No valid key, no ISO.

[slicendice]

Yes I noticed they have once again changed how all this works.

You can however download the Windows Media Creation Tool, which does download the data required for you and then it converts that data into a bootable ISO image file or an USB stick. Not sure if you can get Windows 7 this way though...I only get the Windows 10 version if I run the tool on my Windows 10 box.

[eugenenine]

Its the OEM that came on the laptop.  I thought I'd skip the step of rebuilding it with 7 then doing the upgrade bu just wiping it and installing 10 from the start but no go. 
If I have to fix/rebuild/reinstall7 then it will just stay on it.

[suicidaleggroll]

Its the OEM that came on the laptop.  I thought I'd skip the step of rebuilding it with 7 then doing the upgrade bu just wiping it and installing 10 from the start but no go. 
If I have to fix/rebuild/reinstall7 then it will just stay on it.

I believe you can only install straight to 10 if you had previously upgraded to it.  Since you were running 7 before, I'm pretty sure you'll need to install 7 and then upgrade to 10.

[slicendice]

Its the OEM that came on the laptop.  I thought I'd skip the step of rebuilding it with 7 then doing the upgrade bu just wiping it and installing 10 from the start but no go. 
If I have to fix/rebuild/reinstall7 then it will just stay on it.

I believe you can only install straight to 10 if you had previously upgraded to it.  Since you were running 7 before, I'm pretty sure you'll need to install 7 and then upgrade to 10.

Yes this is the only way (well there is another way, but it's a bit involved) to upgrade from OEM Windows. First upgrade 7 to 10, then make sure your 10 gets activated. Once activated you can Wipe the computer clean and just clean install 10 without any key. It will get activated automatically because your hardware has gotten a digital licence.

[Circlotron]

All this nonsense makes Linux sound simpler by the minute.

[switchedmodepsu]

Its the OEM that came on the laptop.  I thought I'd skip the step of rebuilding it with 7 then doing the upgrade bu just wiping it and installing 10 from the start but no go. 
If I have to fix/rebuild/reinstall7 then it will just stay on it.

I believe you can only install straight to 10 if you had previously upgraded to it.  Since you were running 7 before, I'm pretty sure you'll need to install 7 and then upgrade to 10.

Nope, untrue. He can Google it and find out evidence to the contrary. You can validate the install of 10 with a 7 COA, so long as it was validated before the "free Windows 10" offer expired.

[switchedmodepsu]

All this nonsense makes Linux sound simpler by the minute.

Linux isn't hard, Windows isn't hard, nor is Mac OS X.

[Circlotron]

All this nonsense makes Linux sound simpler by the minute.

Linux isn't hard, Windows isn't hard, nor is Mac OS X.

Try installing Gentoo Linux using the skills of an average Windows user, then get back to me. ;-)

[Sigmoid]

Honestly, this bashing has been going on ever since Windows 95. MS does make blunders time to time, but ultimately, so far I mostly like Win10 - it's a clear improvement over 8.1. I'm sure you can hack 8.1 into something usable, but it doesn't start out that way, while Win10 only needs some decluttering and basic security hardening (unless you're up against a three-letter agency, I'd say built-in tools such as gpedit are fine for that, and if you ARE, use Linux OpenBSD instead).

The moment 8.1 buried itself in my eyes was when I saw they have a "Control Panel" AND a "Settings", with settings randomly distributed between the two. How lazy and shite can you be as a UX engineer to do this? And sure, Windows has a history of hiding "advanced" settings in apps you mostly need to call up via command line (like the aforementioned gpedit), but not basic settings like this...

Also, the weird mouse gestures and the "start page", nope thanks.
(And the fact that it included clearly untested drivers for old Intel integrated network controllers, so that the thing went BSOD every 15 minutes on my somewhat dated Lenovo Thinkpad.)

Yes Linux is probably becoming more and more of a valid solution for workstations, but hardware support is still often an issue. The hardhat ideological approach of the Kernel team to hardware drivers really doesn't help a whole lot - sure it would be best if all hardware would be based on open interfaces, but it often isn't - and what we get is weird hacks to include proprietary code by circumventing GPL, and half-baked drivers.

As for Ubuntu desktop, while I like how Ubuntu Server feels, the few times I tried Desktop always turned me off of it - bugs, weird shit happening all over the place, plus the integrated spyware cloud capability, fuck that shit, if I want that I'll install Windows.

So for now my main workhorse is a Mac, and I'm playing around with Windows on the side to "keep up"... But with Win10, I no longer have too big problems with getting a PC as a core machine in the future - I like Mac OS better, but Apple has really dropped the soap on the hardware front. What's with that shit keyboard, it's up to par with the rubber chiclet on old Spectrums in terms of crappiness.

[switchedmodepsu]

All this nonsense makes Linux sound simpler by the minute.

Linux isn't hard, Windows isn't hard, nor is Mac OS X.

Try installing Gentoo Linux using the skills of an average Windows user, then get back to me. ;-)

I'm glad you feel special and "elite". Which of us has knowledge that we weren't taught or didn't have to learn? I can install any Linux distro you care to name as a long term command line user since 2004, and I'm sure many other people could too. There's no such thing as the "average Windows user" except as a fabrication in the mind which people use to artificially elevate their "skills" so as to bolster their weak sense of self-worth, so they appear to be a "guru" in the eyes of those they allow to believe this myth.

Linux commands are just typing, some maths, knowing one's way around the node based filesystem where "everything is a file", and memory, not many can't achieve that.

[james_s]

All this nonsense makes Linux sound simpler by the minute.

Linux isn't hard, Windows isn't hard, nor is Mac OS X.

Try installing Gentoo Linux using the skills of an average Windows user, then get back to me. ;-)

I'm glad you feel special and "elite". Which of us has knowledge that we weren't taught or didn't have to learn? I can install any Linux distro you care to name as a long term command line user since 2004, and I'm sure many other people could too. There's no such thing as the "average Windows user" except as a fabrication in the mind which people use to artificially elevate their "skills" so as to bolster their weak sense of self-worth, so they appear to be a "guru" in the eyes of those they allow to believe this myth.

Linux commands are just typing, some maths, knowing one's way around the node based filesystem where "everything is a file", and memory, not many can't achieve that.

Gentoo is a bit of a special case since you have to build it all from scratch and set up *everything* manually. That's not really a fair comparison though, Gentoo does not represent Linux as a whole, and to use it as an example of Linux being difficult doesn't really make sense, it's for people who like to do things the hard way, like building a car from scratch out of junkyard parts.

[nctnico]

All this nonsense makes Linux sound simpler by the minute.

Linux isn't hard, Windows isn't hard, nor is Mac OS X.

In the end you have to know how to use/configure something and if you only know one OS then configuring something in a different OS is hard because you don't know it.

[slicendice]

Its the OEM that came on the laptop.  I thought I'd skip the step of rebuilding it with 7 then doing the upgrade bu just wiping it and installing 10 from the start but no go. 
If I have to fix/rebuild/reinstall7 then it will just stay on it.

I believe you can only install straight to 10 if you had previously upgraded to it.  Since you were running 7 before, I'm pretty sure you'll need to install 7 and then upgrade to 10.

Nope, untrue. He can Google it and find out evidence to the contrary. You can validate the install of 10 with a 7 COA, so long as it was validated before the "free Windows 10" offer expired.

The "free" offer has officially ended, but the feature is still active, just upgrade/clean install and activate with Windows 7 Key, once you can access Windows 10 desktop. It should still work. But please don't try an OEM VL key, it won't work even if it's the sticker slapped somewhere in the bottom of your laptop. That is a Volume licence key and can't be used for anything useful when doing automated activations.

Anyone who has a Activated Windows 7, 8.0 or 8.1 and want to clean install straight before having gotten the digital license, can do so by running a tool on the Win7 computer that generates an XML-file, which you can then copy to a backup location and once Win10 is installed you can copy that file to a specific location and reboot. AND VOILA, Win10 is activated even though you did not go through the Upgrade-->Activation process before clean installing Win10 for automated activation.

[Hensingler]

Honestly, this bashing has been going on ever since Windows 95.

Not even close. No one had any problem ignoring and skipping over ME or vista, or ignoring 8. The extreme crappiness of windows 10 is supposed to be the future.

[james_s]

Honestly, this bashing has been going on ever since Windows 95.

Not even close. No one had any problem ignoring and skipping over ME or vista, or ignoring 8. The extreme crappiness of windows 10 is supposed to be the future.

Past versions were normally either a matter of getting used to minor UI changes or contemporary hardware not being powerful enough to adequately run the new OS. The latter is not an issue anymore, even low end PCs are way more powerful than the average user needs. Win8-10 is a major regression in the UI and the forced updates mean they can change it in any way they like, at any time, for any reason, and they have made it as difficult as possible for users to opt out or roll back.

[gnif]

All this nonsense makes Linux sound simpler by the minute.

Linux isn't hard, Windows isn't hard, nor is Mac OS X.

Try installing Gentoo Linux using the skills of an average Windows user, then get back to me. ;-)

I'm glad you feel special and "elite". Which of us has knowledge that we weren't taught or didn't have to learn? I can install any Linux distro you care to name as a long term command line user since 2004, and I'm sure many other people could too. There's no such thing as the "average Windows user" except as a fabrication in the mind which people use to artificially elevate their "skills" so as to bolster their weak sense of self-worth, so they appear to be a "guru" in the eyes of those they allow to believe this myth.

Linux commands are just typing, some maths, knowing one's way around the node based filesystem where "everything is a file", and memory, not many can't achieve that.

What a shame your information is inaccurate, outdated, and insecure:

[eugenenine]

Gentoo is not that hard.  Real me run Slackware 

[Monkeh]

Gentoo is not that hard.  Real me run Slackware 

LFS. Slack's just a time waste these days. All the pain, none of the gain.