Windows is getting disgusting

[DimitriP]

Here's some joyous news I'm sure you'll all love.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/microsoft-new-cpus-to-only-work-on-windows-10-windows-7-to-support-older-chips-499000.shtml
Microsoft: New CPUs to Only Work on Windows 10, Windows 7 to Support Older Chips
Microsoft has recently confirmed that new CPUs will only work with Windows 10, so in case you're planning to purchase a new computer in the next 12 months, you'll have to upgrade to the new operating system.
The new support policy comes into effect with Intel's new 6th-generation CPUs (codenamed Skylake) and will affect all future CPUs, the company confirmed in a statement.

You don't like Windows 10 treating you like a Microsoft asset? Too bad, Microsoft and Intel are going to force you to use it anyway. That 'not with Win7" stuff is just the usual Microsft pretense of an alternative, to hold off the enraged mobs with pitchforks and flaming torches. But it won't last long.

"Windows is getting disgusting" doesn't even come close. Whole lot of people at Microsoft and Intel deserve to be stood in front of a wall and shot, to put an end to this bullshit.

It sounds like Microsoft; as usual they "don't  word good". Just like in 1995 when they said "the command line was dead". Shhh... don't let the powershell people hear that.

It's not that you can't run w7 on Kabylake, they are are not going to be "optimized"  or some such thing.

http://hothardware.com/news/microsoft-to-optimize-windows-10-for-kaby-lake-and-zen
 

[DimitriP]

...and however  horrible you think your job is , imagine being Terry Myerson, head of the OS group at Microsoft and having to speak that bullshit with a straight face in exchange for large sums of money.

[Howardlong]

It sounds similar to the problem of installing XP on Skylake, where the Intel chipsets don't support IDE mode, and Intel isn't interested in writing drivers. Even Windows 7 can be a challenge to install on Skylake if you don't have an optical drive and PS/2 keyboard/mouse combo as Skylake dropped the EHCI USB controller, and Windows 7 doesn't support XHCI USB out of the box.

There are other methods around this such as adding third party PCIe cards which are supported by Windows 7.

[Rbastler]

I never had any problem with Win 10 on any of my PC/Laptops... I switched of all the shit I don't wanna have I can, blocked/black listed Cortana and other stuff, plus my Win 10 version doesn't even have Edge, so thats one less problem.
I experienced performance increase from Win 7 to 8.1 and then again from Win 8.1 to 10. So I have no dought about what OS I'm using.

[amyk]

Windows popped a warning that it was going to restart in 30 minutes.

The only options available were Restart Now and OK. Since I had a video rendering going on for the previous 3 hours and needed at least 2 hours more to finish, I clicked OK. I thought I could cancel the scheduled restart by typing shutdown /a in the command line.

But apparently it was a different type of scheduled restart and it was unaffected by the shutdown command!

I was frantically searching the internet for a way to cancel the restart, but to no avail!

Then I thought the Windows programming team cannot be that stupid, there will be another prompt to postpone or cancel the restart when the time expires.

Apparently they are that stupid. There was no prompt, as the 30 minute mark passed I was instantly hit with the pale blue restart screen!

W T F !!!!!

Now my rendering is gone and I have to Redo from Start. Not such a big deal, I will do it on my other computer which is much faster.

But what if this was a mission critical computer that should never be turned off? Like hospital life support system of something?

And if I understand correctly, unless you disable updates entirely, it is not possible to avoid those automatic restarts. At least Windows 7 had a 4 hour postpone button that you could keep pressing indefinitely.

I hate that kind of crap.  you should have control of your own computer, but yet it seems with windows 10 you don't.  I would never touch that OS with a 19 1/2 foot pole.

My workplace does the same type of crap though with 7.  You get a dialog box and have 20 minutes to restart.   It will happen completely randomly, sometimes in middle of the day, other times in middle of night. My dept is a 24/7 operation and can't afford to go down in middle of the night, but the ones who do this don't care.  It's some random IT dept in a tower somewhere down south, it's not even our own IT dept.

I have yet to figure out how to cancel one of their shutdowns as it does not use the shutdown command.   The only thing I can do is change my clock to buy more time, but if you try to do a whole shift that way you eventually lose your trust with the domain then things go south.

I'm not sure if this works after it's already scheduled a restart, but stopping and disabling the Windows Update service should at least stop it from automatically installing updates and thus restarting.

I certainly know what I'm going to say if I ever meet the tosser who came up with this forced restart idea...

[Hensingler]

I never had any problem with Win 10 on any of my PC/Laptops... I switched of all the shit I don't wanna have I can, blocked/black listed Cortana and other stuff, plus my Win 10 version doesn't even have Edge, so thats one less problem.

What do you call a problem if having and needing to do all that isn't one?

And what about the stuff you don't wanna have that you can't switch off and the stuff that might get switched on again by windows update?

There is a reason why Win 7 still has twice the market share of Win 10 - Microsoft can't even give it away.

[Marco]

They want to have the user datamining capability of Google combined with the relatively high security and stability of an iPhone. They're now failing at everything and have an OS with no raison d'etre. Bloody MacOS looks like the choice with more developer freedom going forward, the user experience is still a mess and Google has nothing to fear.

I wish Ubuntu&Valve would try to pull off a tight user experience and hardware certification process similar to Chromebooks. We need an OS competitor which has a closed garden only as an option for users who don't require/want more freedom, without it being a mandate and without completely destroying hardware diversity. Snapps are a good start (Intel seems to be sponsoring some advertisements for it, they always like to keep their options open).

[hans]

Isn't Microsoft just saying you'll have to upgrade if you want "support"? As in, updates won't be provided for Windows 7 on the newer CPUs after Microsoft's cutoff date.

Okay, that guy should really turn off an OC for any quantifiable testing, and his reasoning that Cinebench is a good test SW is bogus. "Support" could also mean "runs the latest CPU microcode so you aren't affected by some kind of prime bugs locking up the CPU". And as long Cinebench doesn't hit that particular bug, it won't crash.

But as demonstrated; Windows 8 boots and runs, but with random crashes you can't trust it for life.

Here's some joyous news I'm sure you'll all love.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/microsoft-new-cpus-to-only-work-on-windows-10-windows-7-to-support-older-chips-499000.shtml
Microsoft: New CPUs to Only Work on Windows 10, Windows 7 to Support Older Chips
Microsoft has recently confirmed that new CPUs will only work with Windows 10, so in case you're planning to purchase a new computer in the next 12 months, you'll have to upgrade to the new operating system.
The new support policy comes into effect with Intel's new 6th-generation CPUs (codenamed Skylake) and will affect all future CPUs, the company confirmed in a statement.

You don't like Windows 10 treating you like a Microsoft asset? Too bad, Microsoft and Intel are going to force you to use it anyway. That 'not with Win7" stuff is just the usual Microsft pretense of an alternative, to hold off the enraged mobs with pitchforks and flaming torches. But it won't last long.

"Windows is getting disgusting" doesn't even come close. Whole lot of people at Microsoft and Intel deserve to be stood in front of a wall and shot, to put an end to this bullshit.

AMD Zen is likely to do the same thing I heard from rumours.

I guess Microsoft has a big influence on this. They don't want people to buy new machines and then put Windows 7 on it. They obviously want to avoid Windows XP from happening again, and so from day 1 they are trying to force Windows 10 through your throat.

I've got Windows 10 as a second boot partition on my laptop because games, and I'm always amazed by the random crap and misinformation Windows pulls off. Linux is so much more verbose in what it is doing. If an error is thrown you've got a lot more information to fix it.
If Windows was a compiler , the only compile error it would know is "0xBABEB00B your code is incorrect", while it secretly on the background tries to autofix your error (which is wrong 9/10 times), and meanwhile send information about your anomaly to Microsoft's servers for "improving our software".
Next day if you open the compiler the first thing that greets you is a subtle text advertisement on "C# tutorial on loops" because that was identified as the fix yesterday..


To be honest, big corporates are disgusting. Google, Apple and other big ad networks operate similarly in their respective domains. Each and every transaction on their server is probably saved and data mined. Due to their scale they can do this, due to many people being dependent on them they get away with it.

[james_s]

I never had any problem with Win 10 on any of my PC/Laptops... I switched of all the shit I don't wanna have I can, blocked/black listed Cortana and other stuff, plus my Win 10 version doesn't even have Edge, so thats one less problem.

What do you call a problem if having and needing to do all that isn't one?

And what about the stuff you don't wanna have that you can't switch off and the stuff that might get switched on again by windows update?

There is a reason why Win 7 still has twice the market share of Win 10 - Microsoft can't even give it away.

That's the thing, the way the forced updates work, even if you do manage to tweak things until they work to your satisfaction, there's a very good chance everything will get reset the next time a major update comes along. Usually that update makes some of the tweaks you had done difficult or impossible to do again. It feels like Microsoft is actively fighting the user with this OS, and I have no doubt they will turn the screws and make it even more user hostile if they ever gain enough market share to do so. They have thrown their bread and butter under the bus to chase a pipe dream.

[Howardlong]

When I watched that video a day or so ago I got the impression that Jayz, bless 'im, didn't try too hard to figure much out. We never saw, for example, how many drivers were broken in device manager.

To be fair, he's interested in getting as many vids out as he can, that, together with his advertising revenue streams, are what pay the bills, but fixing stuff, not so much. With subs rapidly approaching a million, the laws of diminishing returns come in to play. He could spend three days plus fannying about figuring it out, but that's time not making revenue earning 10 minute long videos.

I do agree though, OCing your machine before you have an OS on it isn't the smartest approach no matter how many years you've been doing it.

[rdl]

I suspect that all the "switching stuff off" and multitude of settings don't really stop Windows 10 from communicating. After all, that's what Microsoft said those things would do, and we all know how much Microsoft can be trusted. Most likely there is more going on. Steam is the same way. You can run it in "offline mode", but it's really not. If there's still an available connection it will continue to transmit and receive data.

[suicidaleggroll]

I suspect that all the "switching stuff off" and multitude of settings don't really stop Windows 10 from communicating.

You're absolutely right.  Microsoft even tells you that if you read the description on some of those settings closely.  The wording is something like, "This option will cause the computer to send additional statistics to Microsoft, if unchecked it will only send basic statistics".  There is no way to shut it completely off, you're just controlling the amount of data it sends.  And regardless of what you choose, within a few weeks/months an update will install itself and turn the option back on anyway.

Why anybody puts up with this BS is a mystery to me.  It would take less effort to install and learn how to use Linux than to figure out how to shut off all of the keyloggers and spyware built into Windows 10.

[metrologist]

I never had any problem with Win 10 on any of my PC/Laptops... I switched of all the shit I don't wanna have I can, blocked/black listed Cortana and other stuff, plus my Win 10 version doesn't even have Edge, so thats one less problem.

What do you call a problem if having and needing to do all that isn't one?

And what about the stuff you don't wanna have that you can't switch off and the stuff that might get switched on again by windows update?

There is a reason why Win 7 still has twice the market share of Win 10 - Microsoft can't even give it away.

Alright, that is exactly what happens on my Samsung GS6 with Android. At least Windows 10 doesn't hammer me with notifications that I cannot figure out what they were or come from, and such slop as game mode and wiz piss, whatever that gimicky UI is called.

Just the other side of the same beast.

[Rbastler]

I suspect that all the "switching stuff off" and multitude of settings don't really stop Windows 10 from communicating.

You're absolutely right.  Microsoft even tells you that if you read the description on some of those settings closely.  The wording is something like, "This option will cause the computer to send additional statistics to Microsoft, if unchecked it will only send basic statistics".  There is no way to shut it completely off, you're just controlling the amount of data it sends.  And regardless of what you choose, within a few weeks/months an update will install itself and turn the option back on anyway.

Why anybody puts up with this BS is a mystery to me.  It would take less effort to install and learn how to use Linux than to figure out how to shut off all of the keyloggers and spyware built into Windows 10.

Linux isn't an option for me. I need AVR Studio, Visual Studio, Resolve and other programms. I rather figure out stoping windows from doing certain things, than learning how to use a entire new os, where certain programs aren't even available.

[suicidaleggroll]

Linux isn't an option for me. I need AVR Studio, Visual Studio, Resolve and other programms. I rather figure out stoping windows from doing certain things, than learning how to use a entire new os, where certain programs aren't even available.

VMs are good for that.  You don't really have to worry about the keyloggers and spying when you only boot that OS for a few hours to do one specific job and then shut it off again.  I will never run Windows on bare metal again, but I do have a few Windows VMs floating around for the odd program that needs it.

[Marco]

To be honest, big corporates are disgusting. Google, Apple and other big ad networks operate similarly in their respective domains.

Apple is different, they make so much money on the hardware that they are more careful about their image with regards to privacy than the others.

Monetary incentives are the best incentive, you can trust Apple more than most. Which I find unfortunate, because a hardware monoculture in mobile&pc would be bad for technological progress. It is what it is though.

[james_s]

I've never been a fan of Apple, but they did get one thing very right that Microsoft got very, very wrong. Mobile and Desktop (which includes traditional laptops) are two very different use cases. There is some small amount of overlap but for the most part people don't want mobile apps on their PC and they don't want full fledged productivity software on their mobile devices. Trying to make one platform that does both and has the same experience across devices means making huge compromises and the result is a product that tries to do everything and does nothing well.

[eugenenine]

Depends on how you define "got right".  I listen to guys at work having when itunes decides to move everything form their phone to the cloud.  Or the one who complains that his battery life is affected because we have a bad wifi access point so his iphone 7 keeps jumping on others even though no one else has that issue.  Seems like the iphone users have to fix something after every forced update.

I don't like Google's way of doing things but Android phones can at least be used without signing into Google so that makes them the best choice.  I sync my own data to me own cloud.

[suicidaleggroll]

I don't like Google's way of doing things but Android phones can at least be used without signing into Google so that makes them the best choice.  I sync my own data to me own cloud.

So do I, and I have an iPhone.  There's no need to use iCloud with Apple, the only reason I have to sign in to Apple on my phone is for "Find My iPhone", which lets you locate the phone if it's lost or remotely wipe it if it gets stolen.  All syncing and backups are to my own computer, nothing goes to the cloud.

[Hensingler]

that Microsoft got very, very wrong. Mobile and Desktop (which includes traditional laptops) are two very different use cases.

They didn't get it wrong it was (and still is) completely intentional. They abuse their near monopoly of the desktop to try to force their attempt at a mobile OS on a very large number of users.

The question was how much can they abuse their existing customers to support their effort to play catchup with apple and google and the answer turned out to be more than anyone could imagine.

[james_s]

Depends on how you define "got right".  I listen to guys at work having when itunes decides to move everything form their phone to the cloud.  Or the one who complains that his battery life is affected because we have a bad wifi access point so his iphone 7 keeps jumping on others even though no one else has that issue.  Seems like the iphone users have to fix something after every forced update.

I don't like Google's way of doing things but Android phones can at least be used without signing into Google so that makes them the best choice.  I sync my own data to me own cloud.

That sounds like bugs, I never said Apple software doesn't have bugs, I said that they got the paradigm right. Win10 could in some alternate universe be absolutely bug-free, and it would still be horribly broken because the design itself is broken. Melding mobile and desktop doesn't work, it's like bolting a bicycle to a car.

[suicidaleggroll]

people don't want mobile apps on their PC ... Trying to make one platform that does both and has the same experience across devices means making huge compromises and the result is a product that tries to do everything and does nothing well.

What gets me is they threw that trash known as Metro on their server OSs as well!  Who in the hell wants to use an interface designed for a touch screen tablet on a SERVER!?!  It boggles the mind.

[Marco]

They abuse their near monopoly of the desktop

Between the overwhelming dominance of Macbooks in laptop sales and the rise of chromebooks I'd say it's very ill advised to rely on this indefinitely.

Microsoft should never have tried to play "catch up" (you can't catch up to Apple and Google at the same time, they have two fundamentally different business models). They should have played to their own strengths.

[Red Squirrel]

I have not played with windows 10 much myself but I presume one way to block this stuff is to block all the outgoing connections to their servers right at your firewall.  They probably use the same IPs for updates too though so you'd lose ability to update. 

[rsjsouza]

Between the overwhelming dominance of Macbooks in laptop sales and the rise of chromebooks I'd say it's very ill advised to rely on this indefinitely.

Not quite:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-2015-notebook-market-share/

Also, chromebooks are internet oriented gadgets. Their market reach is currently limited to the domestic market.