Windows is getting disgusting

[Mechanical Menace]

All this drama with MS lately takes me back to when Steam (Pc game client) came out , it took over anything to do with the games and people loved the thing and probably still do

I was skeptical as hell when it first came out but Steam has turned out to be and proven itself to be able to remain "DRM done as right as it can be." It's probably also single handedly responsible for evening the playing field for PC games towards the consumer quite a bit. It's also made indie games much more visible and in general easier to sort the wheat from the chaff. Which leads on to:

I refused to be involved at my cost ie: not playing the latest and greatest which coincidently all or seems like all have turned into mindless garbage for the kiddies

And all modern music is crap and there wasn't a single bad song brought out back in the day...

If you really think all recent games are mindless garbage compared to those from the past you're wearing blinkers and purposely ignoring a lot of stuff. I am a massive retro gamer but production values, story telling, character and world development amongst other things have come on leaps and bounds. In general the difficulty has been ramped down a bit but at the same times games are much more complex and involved, and TBH I'm almost middle aged now, I don't have the time to beat Contra with no cheats and with no saves any more

[suicidaleggroll]

All this drama with MS lately takes me back to when Steam (Pc game client) came out , it took over anything to do with the games and people loved the thing and probably still do

I was skeptical as hell when it first came out but Steam has turned out to be and proven itself to be able to remain "DRM done as right as it can be." It's probably also single handedly responsible for evening the playing field for PC games towards the consumer quite a bit. It's also made indie games much more visible and in general easier to sort the wheat from the chaff.

I agree.  I avoided it for a long time, but it is actually a pretty good setup.  Good cross-platform compatibility, decent interface, anything you buy you own forever and can install/uninstall from any machine you want at any time, no need for an internet connection or a CD or other piece of hardware to play, and I think they're doing a lot more than anyone before them to advance Linux gaming.

They get my support.

[rdl]

The biggest problem I have with Steam is it always wants to be running in the background, sniffing around who knows where and doing who knows what.

I'd like to be able to start a game, let Steam verify whatever DRM is necessary, then shut itself down and go away while I play the game.

I think GoG is a much better option for retro games. Tons of older games, and many newer ones, are available DRM free through GOG. Including some games that are DRMed if bought from Steam.

[Red Squirrel]

I still don't like the idea of Steam, sure it's convenient for buying games and such, but I just hate the idea of having to rely on a 3rd party just for the game to work. Like if the steam servers are down, you can't even start a game (at least I don't think so).   But even game consoles are like that now.  I miss the NES days, you plug it in, it works. You plug it in today, 30 years later, and it still works. There's no servers, no 3rd parties, no updates, nothing. It's a self contained device. 

[elgonzo]

I still don't like the idea of Steam, sure it's convenient for buying games and such, but I just hate the idea of having to rely on a 3rd party just for the game to work. Like if the steam servers are down, you can't even start a game (at least I don't think so).   But even game consoles are like that now.  I miss the NES days, you plug it in, it works. You plug it in today, 30 years later, and it still works. There's no servers, no 3rd parties, no updates, nothing. It's a self contained device.

+1 +1 +1

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

I agree that steam seems to be games DRM done right.

I still don't like the idea of Steam, sure it's convenient for buying games and such, but I just hate the idea of having to rely on a 3rd party just for the game to work. Like if the steam servers are down, you can't even start a game (at least I don't think so).   But even game consoles are like that now.  I miss the NES days, you plug it in, it works. You plug it in today, 30 years later, and it still works. There's no servers, no 3rd parties, no updates, nothing. It's a self contained device. 

You can disconnect from the network and play steam managed games???
So I am not sure how you think it is otherwise.

to get back on topic i might give the Steam OS a go at some stage too.

[suicidaleggroll]

I just hate the idea of having to rely on a 3rd party just for the game to work. Like if the steam servers are down, you can't even start a game (at least I don't think so).

There is no need to be online at all to play, you only need to be able to access their server for initial installation of the game and updates.

[rdl]

Most of my Steam games don't start unless I log in to their service.

edit: Well, you're sort of right. You have to disable the computer's network connection, then log in to Steam and let it try and fail to connect. After all that, it will finally offer to let you play offline. Bit of a pain in the ass actually.

[suicidaleggroll]

Most of my Steam games don't start unless I log in to their service.

edit: Well, you're sort of right. You have to disable the computer's network connection, then log in to Steam and let it try and fail to connect. After all that, it will finally offer to let you play offline. Bit of a pain in the ass actually.

It's only a pain for testing.  You wouldn't have to disable the network interface if you legitimately couldn't access their server...you'd just launch the game, it would try to connect, say it couldn't, and you'd select "play offline".  Pretty straight forward.

[Mechanical Menace]

It's only a pain for testing.  You wouldn't have to disable the network interface if you legitimately couldn't access their server...you'd just launch the game, it would try to connect, say it couldn't, and you'd select "play offline".  Pretty straight forward.

If I know I'm going to be sans network for a bit and gaming, say I'm travelling and taking my laptop with a decent GPU, I go offline through the "Steam" menus "Go Offline" option, straight underneath the "Change User" menu entry before I set off. I know people who do this as a matter of course after installing a new game and only go online occasionally to grab updates.

EDIT: Just checked and it is persistent across restarts of the app, you just get given the option to try again in online mode so don't get where all this "you have to disable networking" rubbish comes from or that it's a pain to test when it's a simple first level menu option in the very first menu, not hidden deeply or obscurely named.

I miss the NES days, you plug it in, it works. You plug it in today, 30 years later, and it still works. There's no servers, no 3rd parties, no updates, nothing. It's a self contained device.

And if you have a buggy game there're no bug fix updates, no new content, blah blah blah. And games were released with game breaking bugs, some were never fixed. Swings and roundabouts.

[zal42]

And if you have a buggy game there're no bug fix updates, no new content, blah blah blah. And games were released with game breaking bugs, some were never fixed.

This is true, but personally, the downsides of requiring a network connection just to play a game dramatically outweigh the upsides. This direction the industry took is one of the reasons that I largely gave up on modern computer games.

[Mechanical Menace]

This is true, but personally, the downsides of requiring a network connection just to play a game dramatically outweigh the upsides. This direction the industry took is one of the reasons that I largely gave up on modern computer games.

Luckily Steam has avoided building that sort of crap in and even EA seem to be giving up on it. It may have taken years of outcry and them destroying Maxis to do it but hopefully they have learned that lesson.

I had hopes that Minecrafts unexpected and huge success would convince publishers of what a lot of developers already know, DRM does not stop piracy and at worst f*&ks off your legitimate customers making them less likely to pay for your games in the future so more than likely encourages piracy, but that's still an uphill struggle.

[AndyC_772]

Luckily Steam has avoided building that sort of crap in and even EA seem to be giving up on it. It may have taken years of outcry and them destroying Maxis to do it but hopefully they have learned that lesson.

That's worth knowing, thanks. I've always felt it does the developers of a game a tremendous disservice, to publish that game with invasive and pointless requirements to create some kind of social media account, log in, upload 'achievements' and so on.

I don't want to do those things. I don't care about your 'social platform', I don't want to join your forum, or to have anyone track how often I play a game, and you can shove your achievements somewhere dark and warm.

How about: I give you some money, you send me your game, I play the game whenever and wherever I like until I'm bored of it. Is that really so much to ask?

[zal42]

Luckily Steam has avoided building that sort of crap in

True. I used to use Steam and am very familiar with it. But even though Steam does this sort of thing in a less obnoxious way (primarily by allowing offline play), I still find it annoying enough that I stopped using it. I suppose that if a game came out that was truly exceptional I would be willing to use Steam to get it, but I have yet to see that game.

[GEuser]

Luckily Steam has avoided building that sort of crap in and even EA seem to be giving up on it. It may have taken years of outcry and them destroying Maxis to do it but hopefully they have learned that lesson.

How about: I give you some money, you send me your game, I play the game whenever and wherever I like until I'm bored of it. Is that really so much to ask?

Exactly my sentiment , thanks for posting as it makes it easier for me so I do not have to type a lot .
After paying out big money sometimes $100au per game , then to have a second party to control ones gaming with all those stats and other BS reminded me of MS , then there is all that "cloud" crap , I just don't want or need it !

At the start of steam it said it was there to stop piracy , help developers and the worlds coming to a end and all that BS , well just going by my experience they (the developers) have missed out on all my money , so Ha , but no doubt someone has made a packet .

A few years back I purchased a Razer KB/wireless Mouse , to use their software to enable features on the KB and mouse one had to be logged in and only then download the software (Synapse) for the KB (But i have recently found mouse only software) , the main selling feature was "cloud" to save your settings of the KB/M ,,, WHAT save settings for a 2 minute time to reset them manually , its just garbage and since "cloud" is out there it just has to be used , all imo .

[Lightages]

I am now offering $2000usd to anyone who can show me a Linux distro that will do what I want. My needs are shown in earlier posts and a full specification will be provided to those who seriously want to get the $2000.

 

[GEuser]

Yes there are some out here that are well aware that Win7 is all we got left and know it .

I'm waiting for the Russians ! , or China , only then we might get a decent operable operating system for a DeskTop computer .

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

I am now offering $2000usd to anyone who can show me a Linux distro that will do what I want. My needs are shown in earlier posts and a full specification will be provided to those who seriously want to get the $2000.
 

Maybe you can link the needs or restate them. Just to make it easier. than going thru 15 pages of this thread.

And also I suggest a 3rd party arbiter if you want to be taken seriously.

[Lightages]

I am now offering $2000usd to anyone who can show me a Linux distro that will do what I want. My needs are shown in earlier posts and a full specification will be provided to those who seriously want to get the $2000.
 

Maybe you can link the needs or restate them. Just to make it easier. than going thru 15 pages of this thread.

And also I suggest a 3rd party arbiter if you want to be taken seriously.

If someone can't look for the information to earn the $2k, then I hardly think they are going to work to actually find the distro. If someone wants to take me up on the offer, it will be handled by an arbiter.

[AndyC_772]

the main selling feature was "cloud" to save your settings of the KB/M ,,, WHAT save settings for a 2 minute time to reset them manually , its just garbage and since "cloud" is out there it just has to be used , all imo .

Cloud settings for a keyboard and mouse? Oh, my   

[Mechanical Menace]

I am now offering $2000usd to anyone who can show me a Linux distro that will do what I want. My needs are shown in earlier posts and a full specification will be provided to those who seriously want to get the $2000.
 

Find me a single OS that'll do everything I want and I'll have a go for free:

Resume from suspend has to work with GTX690s and GTX980s, all my Steam games have to work, needs to be low latency or preferably real time for live audio processing, must have D3D12, Vulkan and Metal support, and use an FS that doesn't make building none trivial projects a pain due to slow handling of small files...

Really when you have broad usage needs complaining that one OS won't do everything is like complaining you can't solder with a hammer. Every tool has its place.

[Lightages]

Really when you have broad usage needs complaining that one OS won't do everything is like complaining you can't solder with a hammer. Every tool has its place.

Except.... I have been told many times that Linux can do anything, is better than Windows, and that I am a noob who shouldn't even be using computers because I am too stupid to make Linux do what I want. So I have put my money where my mouth is. I have said that Linux is not as useful on the desktop as Windows. Linux elitists tell me that Linux can do everything better than Windows. I am sure I will never pay out.

I am not asking for an OS to do everything possible to conceive. I am asking Linux to do only what I can already do with Windows. Nothing more.

[CatalinaWOW]

Really when you have broad usage needs complaining that one OS won't do everything is like complaining you can't solder with a hammer. Every tool has its place.

Except.... I have been told many times that Linux can do anything, is better than Windows, and that I am a noob who shouldn't even be using computers because I am too stupid to make Linux do what I want. So I have put my money where my mouth is. I have said that Linux is not as useful on the desktop as Windows. Linux elitists tell me that Linux can do everything better than Windows. I am sure I will never pay out.

I am not asking for an OS to do everything possible to conceive. I am asking Linux to do only what I can already do with Windows. Nothing more.

I agree with you about the attitude on the part of Linux advocates.  But you are doing the same thing.  There are many things that Linux in one or the other of its variants does very well.  And many things that neither system is superior on, just different.  The unfortunate difference to me (I am a dominant Windows user) is that Microsoft is de-emphasizing the desktop aspect of the system, which is 99% of what I care about, and at the same time switching to a subscription system and taking more invasive control over what is on your computer.  So in a year or two I will be paying $50 or $100 a year to use a system that periodically takes over and tells me that my selections on the user interface are no good, and is likely to support my needs less and less.  It is already causing me some pain, and the trend looks terrible.  I have already switched away from the Microsoft Office products which paved the way on this path, and it seems more and more likely that I will feel the need to switch away from their operating system.  I would be there now if it weren't for a number of key programs that are available in Windows form only.

[suicidaleggroll]

Except.... I have been told many times that Linux can do anything

Whoever said that is an idiot

I am not asking for an OS to do everything possible to conceive. I am asking Linux to do only what I can already do with Windows. Nothing more.

That's the problem, your entire software base is designed around what's compatible on Windows.  You're not asking Linux to be a good desktop, you're asking Linux to do exactly what you have found to work correctly for you in Windows.  Linux is not Windows.  It does not do the same things, and it does not do them in the same way.  It has different incompatibilities and different hardware/software support.  Had you started with Linux, built up a suite of software you found to work well together and do the job to your level of satisfaction, and then tried to move, verbatim, to Windows, you would have the exact same problem.

[SeanB]

Actually moving from Linux to windows is easy, as most of the software on Linux is either Open Source, or has multiplatform support as a standard. Very rare to find a Windows program that also is built for any other OS, most of the time it only runs under Windows, and often only on a certain version or a certain type. Most common is stuff that only runs on XP32bit, or only runs on Win7, and refuses or dies if you try another Windows version, though it might install and appear to work partly.