why is the US not Metric

[tooki]

3.5 inches is the “nominal size”.  Despite their actual dimension, I have never heard them called anything else.

...which is why I had literally brought them up solely as an example of something universally called by a customary size despite the controlling dimension being metric. 

[Mr. Scram]

Yet, you wrote this in Reply #1310:

 

Doxing is researching and revealing other's details. I'm asking you to voluntarily post your own details as you clearly suggest you have no concerns about privacy as you're posting on an internet forum. You should have no qualms about posting your details here. If the reply to this message isn't your home address you obviously concede that you do care about privacy as much as bsfeechannel, only with slightly differing personal boundaries. You share your country but not address, bsfeechannel shares videos but not his country.

[Cubdriver]

Yet, you wrote this in Reply #1310:

 

Doxing is researching and revealing other's details. I'm asking you to voluntarily post your own details as you clearly suggest you have no concerns about privacy as you're posting on an internet forum. You should have no qualms about posting your details here. If the reply to this message isn't your home address you obviously concede that you do care about privacy as much as bsfeechannel, only with slightly differing personal boundaries. You share your country but not address, bsfeechannel shares videos but not his country.

I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous comparison.  Equating sharing your home address versus the COUNTRY that you live in as being SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT as privacy boundaries?      Seriously?

-Pat

[ebastler]

I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous comparison.  Equating sharing your home address versus the COUNTRY that you live in as being SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT as privacy boundaries?      Seriously?

Yes, of course it was an intentionally pointed comparison.

But can you grasp that a person may indeed want to keep their country of origin private? Not because they are concerned that you would seek and find them there if you knew. But e.g. because they are concerned about prejudices others might have about that country, which may distort how posts from someone living there are read by others?

[xrunner]

But e.g. because they are concerned about prejudices others might have about that country, which may distort how posts from someone living there are read by others?

Yea really, it's a good thing that doesn't ever happen to people displaying my flag.

 

[bsfeechannel]

Firstly, BSFEEChannel, this is great improvement. I was skeptical as I started. But you are becoming way more reasonable in this exact post, anyway.

Why are you surprised? That's a short compendium of everything I said in this thread.

But would you agree that the US was WAY ahead of 94% of the globe's population in terms of STANDARDIZATION since the early 1900s when people starting the whole idea of mass manufacturing? And that the US built up a massive amount of this stuff compared to anyone else other than the losers of the WWII. Standardization... in its measuring system. In its tooling. In stadards used for production. In actually not just making standards. But selling them. Spreading them. Making them popular. Despite not being metric, early on, and dealing with imperial/USC and later metric, as well.

Impressive. However, all of that is irrelevant now. I was trying to restore a vintage Compaq laptop computer the other day. It was manufactured in 1994 or 1995. I noticed that the power supply was made in India. The screen and the hard drive were made in Japan. Some other part was made in Mexico, another in China, yet another, elsewhere, but the US. The only thing made in the US was the logo.

So, this argument cannot be used to explain why the US is not metric. The US today is not the US of the early 1900s. And that's been going on for a couple of decades now.

Yes, eventually one day we might have everythign in metric, here. But it's a natural course, following the money and the market.

Exactly as every country in the world did. Only that they managed to do it a lot faster than the US.

It's not efficient to force it.

As I said, no country was forced to adopt the metric system. The adhesion has been always voluntary. Of course, after metric becomes official it will have to be enforced, just like imperial is enforced in the US.

And compared to Australia just "getting 'er done," Australia's metrication was like excising a wart vs US would be like separating Siamese twins, in terms of cost/scope and what WILL go wrong.

In other words, Australia has accomplished nothing, that's why metrication there was a piece of cake.

And i don't know how many times we can apologize for rstopher. I'm personally sorry for everything he posted in this thread.

No. Don't apologize for him. I'm thankful for his replies. He is the accurate portrait of the typical anti-metric American. If the US really wants to speed up metrication, it will have to remove his objections.

[tooki]

And i don't know how many times we can apologize for rstopher. I'm personally sorry for everything he posted in this thread.

No. Don't apologize for him. I'm thankful for his replies. He is the accurate portrait of the typical anti-metric American. If the US really wants to speed up metrication, it will have to remove his objections.

Except that the vast majority of Americans don't care at all. The tiny percentage of Americans who are rabidly anti-metric aren't representative of Americans as a whole, just as rabidly pro-metric people like you aren't representative of non-Americans as a whole. Neither rstopher nor you are willing to take an honest, nuanced look at the situation, instead relying on outlandish, extremist claims that bear little resemblance to the truth.

[bsfeechannel]

Except that the vast majority of Americans don't care at all.

If that was true, we wouldn't be on page 54.

[tooki]

Except that the vast majority of Americans don't care at all.

If that was true, we wouldn't be on page 54.

We are here because you refuse to accept ANYTHING that contradicts your narrow worldview, including very reasonable, realistic reasons for not embracing metric to a degree you consider acceptable.

Moreover, the fact that most Americans don't care about units at all doesn't mean none do. And many people who don't care about the issue itself will still come to the country's defense when under attack from morons like you.

[xrunner]

Except that the vast majority of Americans don't care at all.

If that was true, we wouldn't be on page 54.

LOL - we're on pg 54 (soon to be 55) because other people seem to care a lot that we don't care. 

Like I said a long time ago, I use metric and imperial, both, all the time. I use metric for model railroading, 3D printing, and electronics. I use imperial for a lot of other things because it's the common measurement for those other things. I can go back and forth with no problems whatsoever.

So I'm actually a more versatile person than others that don't.. 

Did I say I don't care? 

[bsfeechannel]

We are here because you refuse to accept ANYTHING that contradicts your narrow worldview, including very reasonable, realistic reasons for not embracing metric to a degree you consider acceptable.

54 pages dedicated to my "narrow worldview"? I'm flattered.

Moreover, the fact that most Americans don't care about units at all doesn't mean none do. And many people who don't care about the issue itself will still come to the country's defense when under attack from morons like you.

On the comment section of the following video by Dave (EEVblog #1284 - How Bad Product Design Kills The Environment), we have this assertion:

The US uses United States customary units.  We mostly use metric, but many things are standard units. Like eggs, wood, highway speeds. For more info see the wiki. The particular unit used is what is commonly used (in the US) in THAT field. Eggs don't come in packages of ten, they come in a dozen, and so on.

This guy doesn't know that eggs are not units of measure and that 12 is not a forbidden number.

He is the victim of an obsolete system that has no support from reason to exist. When this happens, usually some kind of mythic explanation is held in place of reason. Imperial is crippling the brains of the people who cling to it.

Does pointing that out make someone a moron? Does it constitute an attack to the US? If it is, I think the defense has come too late. The morons have apparently invaded the US borders already. They are even being bred and raised there. The remedy to "demoronize" those people is the immediate metrication of the whole country. We need to give our children a future, and the future is metric.

LOL - we're on pg 54 (soon to be 55) because other people seem to care a lot that we don't care. 

So you care that we care that you don't care. In short, you care not to care. It is this kind of contradiction that leads threads to that number of pages, and it is my job to identify it.

[xrunner]

So you care that we care that you don't care. In short, you care not to care. It is this kind of contradiction that leads threads to that number of pages, and it is my job to identify it.

Have you ever ventured down to the bottom of the main forum page? Among other data there, is this (which I copied before starting this post so it will have changed by now).

1935 Guests, 257 Users (2 Hidden)

See that "Guests" number? 1,935 people? That's a lot. It may come as surprise to you, but other people read this forum and the threads here without being members, or sometimes as members, without even posting in the threads they read. I know, I know - it's a shock, but it's true. Try to take that in.

So, just because I and other people post in response to you and others in the thread, doesn't mean we are only considering that the active people in the thread are the consumers of the information. In fact, a lot of the time on forums, when I've dealt with someone who will not be convinced, I post to them anyway because I know other people are at least reading along. Other people all over the world.

Think about it. 

[tooki]

We are here because you refuse to accept ANYTHING that contradicts your narrow worldview, including very reasonable, realistic reasons for not embracing metric to a degree you consider acceptable.

54 pages dedicated to my "narrow worldview"? I'm flattered.

Oh, honey, it's not a compliment. It proves only how obtuse you are.

Moreover, the fact that most Americans don't care about units at all doesn't mean none do. And many people who don't care about the issue itself will still come to the country's defense when under attack from morons like you.

On the comment section of the following video by Dave (EEVblog #1284 - How Bad Product Design Kills The Environment), we have this assertion:

The US uses United States customary units.  We mostly use metric, but many things are standard units. Like eggs, wood, highway speeds. For more info see the wiki. The particular unit used is what is commonly used (in the US) in THAT field. Eggs don't come in packages of ten, they come in a dozen, and so on.

This guy doesn't know that eggs are not units of measure and that 12 is not a forbidden number.

And? One anti-metric moron who isn't even part of the discussion doesn't prove that all Americans are anti-metric and/or morons.

He is the victim of an obsolete system that has no support from reason to exist. When this happens, usually some kind of mythic explanation is held in place of reason. Imperial is crippling the brains of the people who cling to it.

That is an absurd, idiotic, ignorant claim. That proves ONLY that you are wholly divorced from reality.

Does pointing that out make someone a moron?

Yes, since it's a moronic claim to begin with. Making that claim inherently shows someone is a moron.

Does it constitute an attack to the US?

This entire thread is an attack on the US, insofar as it was NEVER the intent to understand the motivations for not going all-metric, but rather just a pretense to lob insults at Americans. (If understanding had been the intent, then the thread would have died long ago, since the reasons have been explained ad infinitum.)

If it is, I think the defense has come too late. The morons have apparently invaded the US borders already. They are even being bred and raised there. The remedy to "demoronize" those people is the immediate metrication of the whole country. We need to give our children a future, and the future is metric.

Just digging your hole of moronity deeper, eh?

As for children: Please, for the love of god, don't have any.

LOL - we're on pg 54 (soon to be 55) because other people seem to care a lot that we don't care. 

So you care that we care that you don't care. In short, you care not to care. It is this kind of contradiction that leads threads to that number of pages, and it is my job to identify it.

You still don't understand the difference between "some", "most", and "all", evidently.

And no, it's not your job to point out this supposed contradiction, if there even were one, which there isn't. I explained to you already.

[bsfeechannel]

This entire thread is an attack on the US, insofar as it was NEVER the intent to understand the motivations for not going all-metric, but rather just a pretense to lob insults at Americans. (If understanding had been the intent, then the thread would have died long ago, since the reasons have been explained ad infinitum.)

And no, it's not your job to point out this supposed contradiction, if there even were one, which there isn't. I explained to you already.

So, this is it, isn't it? You have your clichéd explanation and our job is to accept it. No questioning, no investigation, no different point of view, even if your assertions are full of contradictions, misconceptions, and ignorance about systems of measure and other matters.

Otherwise, we are trolls, communists, French, Europeans, Australians, Brazilians--or other people not entitled to scrutinize your taboos--attacking the US.

You like to sweep rstofer under the carpet, but the thing is that each and everyone of you seem to have a bit of him inside. How about we all shut up and MAMA, Make America Metric Already?

The sooner, the better.

[tooki]

Child, if anyone here is a cliché, it’s you. Many of us have attempted to explain basic logic to you, with clear, logical reasons for why embracing metric* without restraint isn’t necessarily optimal. Not one iota of it manages to penetrate your dense skull. That’s on you, not us.

*As well as tangential discussions of what metrication actually means: just writing things in metric? Or actually changing the controlling dimension to metric?

[tooki]

P.S. I actually prefer metric, on the whole. The fact that people like rstofer would consider me a metric apologist, while people like you would call me a customary Luddite, means that my views are actually likely to be very balanced and realistic.

[angrybird]

I haven't read through this thread entirely but I assume that the actual historical reason for this (British tyranny from a very long time ago) has been pointed out.  Nowadays, since we're mostly getting along and the 50% of America that has high power deer rifles in their back pocket that can put a hole in an armored vehicle don't really care all that much about metric vs. imperial,  I think you will continue to see a natural, mostly un-opposed transition towards the metric system in areas that this is easy to do, it's just easier to do that math in your head.

However consider:

1) All of the roads are marked in miles
2) All of the cars are therefore using miles as their predominant marking (through the metric markings have existed thanks to their canadian neighbors for a very long time)
3) There are countless idioms that mention miles and you can't make people reword their idioms, now can you
4) It doesn't really matter since math is math

Chirp, chirp.

[bsfeechannel]

Child, if anyone here is a cliché, it’s you. Many of us have attempted to explain basic logic to you, with clear, logical reasons for why embracing metric* without restraint isn’t necessarily optimal. Not one iota of it manages to penetrate your dense skull. That’s on you, not us.

*As well as tangential discussions of what metrication actually means: just writing things in metric? Or actually changing the controlling dimension to metric?

You think that eggs are units, that in metric countries everything has to be group in packs of tens, that France is in possession of a rod with the exact size of the meter, compromising the US sovereignty, that degrees Celsius are defined by the boiling and freezing point of water, that the transition to the meter has to cost zero dollars, that you don't care about metrication, while you really care.

This and many other stupid assertions. How are we supposed to accept your arguments?

Sorry, pal. Maybe some other time. But not today.

[tooki]

Child, if anyone here is a cliché, it’s you. Many of us have attempted to explain basic logic to you, with clear, logical reasons for why embracing metric* without restraint isn’t necessarily optimal. Not one iota of it manages to penetrate your dense skull. That’s on you, not us.

*As well as tangential discussions of what metrication actually means: just writing things in metric? Or actually changing the controlling dimension to metric?

You think that eggs are units, that in metric countries everything has to be group in packs of tens, that France is in possession of a rod with the exact size of the meter, compromising the US sovereignty, that degrees Celsius are defined by the boiling and freezing point of water, that the transition to the meter has to cost zero dollars, that you don't care about metrication, while you really care.

This and many other stupid assertions. How are we supposed to accept your arguments?

Sorry, pal. Maybe some other time. But not today.

I didn’t say those things. I, and others, gave you real, sensible reasons, and your stubborn ass simply declares them irrelevant or pretends they weren’t said at all. And then you go whine about stupid shit like the above, ascribing it to people who didn’t say it. You’re pathetic.

[bsfeechannel]

I didn’t say those things. I, and others, gave you real, sensible reasons, and your stubborn ass simply declares them irrelevant or pretends they weren’t said at all. And then you go whine about stupid shit like the above, ascribing it to people who didn’t say it. You’re pathetic.

Man, you are the one whining about the people that reject your self proclaimed "sensible reasons". While you don't change your mind, every discussion about this topic will be interpreted by you as an attack to the US.

So, I'm sorry. If you think your insults will detain me or others you are wrong.

[Cubdriver]

Tooki, give it up - you're trying to reason with someone who's as receptive to logic and explanations as a brick wall!   

I think we should all stop feeding the troll.

-Pat

[CatalinaWOW]

While there is a bunch of arguing without listening going on on this thread I continue to learn things and develop questions/observations.

Question 1:  In metrified countries, how is printer and photographic resolution specified.  In the US it is DPI or dots per inch.  Do metric guys do dots per centimeter or do you do do dot spacing (pitch as defined in the metric world)?  For some reason the metric world seems to gravitate towards the reciprocal of US standard units (liters/km, pitch in mm and so on).  I see no particular advantage to one or the other.  It is kind of like the side of the road you drive on.  Tradition, not advantage.

Question 2/Observation:  Had a boo-boo on the home front and had to do some foundation repairs.  Picked up 800 lbs of ready mix concrete to add to the ready stock I keep around.  It comes in 80 lb bags here, which are marked in the same size font as 36.4 kg.  They also sell 60 lb  (27.3 kg) bags because 80 lbs is above some folks handling threshold.   Is this product available in metric countries and what is the standard size?  It seems that 40 kg would be pushing handling limits pretty hard, while rounding the US standard down to 35 kg would lead to accusations of implementing a hidden cost increase.  Same comment to a 30 kg standard, though that actually seems a fairly reasonable size.  Actually this industry probably wouldn't bother to hide a cost increase.  Those 80 lb bags used to cost about a dollar, they are over $4 USD now at my location.

(Just to forstall any comments:  I have priced buying cement and aggregate.  At my location it doesn't save much and I like having the ready stock bagged.  A pile of aggregate ends up everywhere after a while).

[Tepe]

For some reason the metric world seems to gravitate towards the reciprocal of US standard units (liters/km, pitch in mm and so on).  I see no particular advantage to one or the other.  It is kind of like the side of the road you drive on.  Tradition, not advantage.

In my neck of the woods we use km/l

Question 2/Observation:  Had a boo-boo on the home front and had to do some foundation repairs.  Picked up 800 lbs of ready mix concrete to add to the ready stock I keep around.  It comes in 80 lb bags here, which are marked in the same size font as 36.4 kg.

25 kg bags here.

[ebastler]

Question 1:  In metrified countries, how is printer and photographic resolution specified.  In the US it is DPI or dots per inch.  Do metric guys do dots per centimeter or do you do do dot spacing (pitch as defined in the metric world)?  For some reason the metric world seems to gravitate towards the reciprocal of US standard units (liters/km, pitch in mm and so on).

I don't think there is any systematic tendency to use the inverse dimension. For resolution, lines/mm is used in photography, printing etc., so the same dimension as the DPI common in the US (and "imported" into metric countries since the 1980s). As Tepe has pointed out, km/l is used in some countries/regions too.

Question 2/Observation:  Had a boo-boo on the home front and had to do some foundation repairs.  Picked up 800 lbs of ready mix concrete to add to the ready stock I keep around.  It comes in 80 lb bags here, which are marked in the same size font as 36.4 kg.  They also sell 60 lb  (27.3 kg) bags because 80 lbs is above some folks handling threshold.   Is this product available in metric countries and what is the standard size?  .

Workplace health & safety recommendations here say that frequent/regular lifting should be limited to 30kg for men, and to 25kg for those aged over 45. The 25kg standard size for bags of cement, sand, potatoes etc. is consistent with that recommendation.

[Tepe]

Workplace health & safety recommendations here say that frequent/regular lifting should be limited to 30kg for men, and to 25kg for those aged over 45. The 25kg standard size for bags of cement, sand, potatoes etc. is consistent with that recommendation.

Sensible stuff.
Here the bags went from 50 kg to 40 kg and then 25 kg.