why is the US not Metric

[Black Phoenix]

But in countries where metric is already the "customary" system, when addressing the passengers, the pilot converts the altitude to meters, because no one has absolutely any clue what 27.000 feet means.

That goes for seat screens: speeds in kilometers per hour and altitude in meters.

Then I must feel unlucky. All the long flights I've made, except the the screens that are as you said, the pilot always told on the PA the altitude in feet and the speed on kts.

[bsfeechannel]

But in countries where metric is already the "customary" system, when addressing the passengers, the pilot converts the altitude to meters, because no one has absolutely any clue what 27.000 feet means.

That goes for seat screens: speeds in kilometers per hour and altitude in meters.

Then I must feel unlucky. All the long flights I've made, except the the screens that are as you said, the pilot always told on the PA the altitude in feet and the speed on kts.

Well, maybe you're really out of luck, because some pilots actually say the altitude in feet and speed in knots but they immediately "translate" it to what people are familiar with. Your mileage, oops, kilometrage may vary, of course.

[vk6zgo]

I'm surprised people wouldn't have a rough idea of what feet is. For all the crap Americans get for supposedly not knowing other units, I think most of us have a pretty good idea of what a meter is. It's close enough to say it's about 3 feet.

it's a bit more------- 3.2808 ft, in fact.

For "rough working", I just remember that a ft is "near as dammit" to 30 cm, or as the Metrication Board insisted when we changed over in the '70s ---------300mm.

They hated cm, "because it wasn't an SI unit" & didn't like measurements in metres much, "because people might  have trouble with the decimal points".

The upshot of this was, if I wanted to buy a length of timber 1.5m long, it was marked 1500mm, & sold as such.
I would then pay for it in money which used a decimal point all the time!
 

[james_s]

I'm surprised people wouldn't have a rough idea of what feet is. For all the crap Americans get for supposedly not knowing other units, I think most of us have a pretty good idea of what a meter is. It's close enough to say it's about 3 feet.

This is because distances and lengths are consistently measured in meters all around the world. And people actually use these units for everything. Trying to memorize how many feet are in a meter is absolutely useless. Nothing is measured in that unit in those countries.

Well, except for altitude, so anyone who has ever been on an airliner has probably heard feet, and then there's the speed in Knots, that's even more esoteric than feet or miles. The only reason I even vaguely know what a knot is, is because my dad had a sailboat when I was a kid. Thankfully these days I can pull the tiny supercomputer out of my pocket and convert just about any unit to just about any other unit in a few seconds.

[VK3DRB]

Besides the Altium grid lines "standard" being a dog's breakfast, many Chinese PCB manufacturers only specify their capability dimensions in imperial measurements (eg: minimum track width 7mils, rather than 0.18mm). This is only to appease US engineers who cannot fathom (sorry, 1.8288m) the metric system (Just kidding, sort of!).

I assure you, it's nothing but smug US haters telling you that Americans can't understand metric. It's been taught in schools for 50+ years now, and American engineers are absolutely, definitely, 100% going to be able to handle millimeters just fine.

Loosen up. Read: I was joking!

Most engineers experienced in PCBA design can convert between imperial and metric in their head. But there are many adults in the Australia who don't know what an inch is, and Americans who don't know what a centimetre is... so much for education.

But for engineers knowing both systems or converting both systems is absolutely no help when some engineers use metric for their schematic grid spacing and symbol library pin spacing and others use imperial. It is a debacle, because libraries cannot be mixed without some tedious work and branches in version control. As we are realising, "One country, two systems" does not work.

Maybe Altium can provide an easy-to-use schematic library pin spacing/pin length conversion tool in a future release.

[Simon]

I'm surprised people wouldn't have a rough idea of what feet is. For all the crap Americans get for supposedly not knowing other units, I think most of us have a pretty good idea of what a meter is. It's close enough to say it's about 3 feet.

Divide by 3 and subtract 10% as 3 feet are 915mm

[tooki]

Oh yeah, I just remembered another US unit that's used worldwide: the foot, in aviation. Flight levels are practically always* in feet, because having a consistent system is far more important than which system it is. Switching would likely lead to some crashes during the transition period. With there being essentially no advantage to switching, the risks involved in switching just don't make sense, which is probably why aviation has stuck with feet, despite ICAO recommending a switch to metric since 1979.

(Given the altitudes in question, the unit used is essentially totally arbitrary, since one's "feel" for a unit in everyday life can't translate to the huge altitudes involved. And the actual amounts don't really matter, insofar as it's air traffic control telling a pilot what flight level to use.)

*Except China, Mongolia, North Korea, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Russia actually used to use metric flight levels, but in 2017, actually switched from meters to feet.

But in countries where metric is already the "customary" system, when addressing the passengers, the pilot converts the altitude to meters, because no one has absolutely any clue what 27.000 feet means.

That goes for seat screens: speeds in kilometers per hour and altitude in meters.

As someone who flies in both USA and Europe a few times a year, I can’t say I agree with this. They rarely ever announce the altitude anymore anyway, in any unit, since an interested passenger can turn on the map on the IFE, which on older ones cycles between feet and meters for altitude, and between knots, mph, and kph, and on newer ones allows the passenger to select the units.

[tooki]

I'm surprised people wouldn't have a rough idea of what feet is. For all the crap Americans get for supposedly not knowing other units, I think most of us have a pretty good idea of what a meter is. It's close enough to say it's about 3 feet.

I'd guess that more people from Europe would understand "33,000 feet", than Americans would understand "10,000 metres"

Ah, more anti-American prejudices...

As an American living in Europe, I can say with a million percent certainty that Europeans know vastly less about US customary units than Americans know about metric. (As in, the average European knows literally nothing about customary units. Which makes sense, since they aren’t taught them in school.)

Americans are taught metric in school (even if customary units are used more), so we grow up with an inkling of what metric units are. We at least know that a meter is very broadly speaking about the same general length as a yard (3 feet). We have a pretty good feel for what mm and cm are: American rulers invariably have inches on one side and cm/mm on the other. (Oddly, measuring tapes do not.) Analog thermometers have both scales, as did traditional analog speedometers in cars. Americans are passively exposed to metric on a daily basis in all areas of life. Europeans (and presumably other non-North and South Americans) simply aren’t ever exposed to US customary units except in very specific circumstances that most people do not encounter on a regular basis.

So no, people from Europe wouldn’t know what to make of 33,000 feet. An American might be able to say “hmmm, that’s about 6 miles”, a European will have no clue that it’s 10km.

[tooki]

Besides the Altium grid lines "standard" being a dog's breakfast, many Chinese PCB manufacturers only specify their capability dimensions in imperial measurements (eg: minimum track width 7mils, rather than 0.18mm). This is only to appease US engineers who cannot fathom (sorry, 1.8288m) the metric system (Just kidding, sort of!).

I assure you, it's nothing but smug US haters telling you that Americans can't understand metric. It's been taught in schools for 50+ years now, and American engineers are absolutely, definitely, 100% going to be able to handle millimeters just fine.

Loosen up. Read: I was joking!

No thanks, I respectfully decline to “loosen up”. You said “half joking”, aka not actually joking.

As an American abroad, I get shit from everyone: Americans in USA calling me “eurotrash” (I’m not), British people smugly declaring that Americans don’t speak English (we do), locals complaining about foreigners, and everyone ragging on us about metric. (And until Brexit and AfD showed Europeans that xenophobic right wing paranoia is on their doorstep, we also got Europeans attacking us for our dumb politicians that I, like nearly all Americans abroad, decidedly did not vote for.) I’m tired of it, so I call people out on it, mmkay?

[SerieZ]

NOTE: This message has been deleted by the forum moderator Simon for being against the forum rules and/or at the discretion of the moderator as being in the best interests of the forum community and the nature of the thread.
If you believe this to be in error, please contact the moderator involved.
An optional additional explanation is:

[SerieZ]

Post Removed, LOL.

I guess it is allowed for People here in this Forum to vent their unwarranted and insulting feelings against Europeans, the Swiss and people with other Political beliefs but not for those to reply (In an educated matter as well).

Also an explanation of which Rule Violation applies would be nice so we can all learn something here.

[Simon]

There is no firm rule but I don't want us to "go there" or it will quickly descend into a mud slinging match in a topic that is already "sensitive". It's at my discretion. We try not to have too many rules but act on individual cases.

[SerieZ]

Guess Ill have to grow a thicker skin then. 

[Simon]

Classic example here: https://littlegiant.com/products/hvac/condensate-removal-pumps/vcm-series/vcmx-20-series/

1/30HP? Seriously? What is a thirtieth of a horse power. This is electrically powered and is small. The unit of a HP is too large. What they mean is a mere 25W. I can understand an industrial pump being in HP but not this thing and all I'd still care about is how many horses...... err sorry I mean how much electricity I need to run it. HP is a completely useless unit of measure for something that is practically electronic!

[bsfeechannel]

So no, people from Europe wouldn’t know what to make of 33,000 feet. An American might be able to say “hmmm, that’s about 6 miles”, a European will have no clue that it’s 10km.

Extend that for the rest of the world. The various old, incompatible and cumbersome unit systems must be forgotten, relegated to the annals of history as a mere curiosity from the past.

Today the US customary units are of only parochial relevance, devoid of global importance.

[Simon]

We don't pick pumps based on HP but flow rate and pressure developed and then look at the power consumption and ask ourselves if we have that much power available.

I'm not a redneck! I don't pick things based on power but on performance.....

[tooki]

Post Removed, LOL.

I guess it is allowed for People here in this Forum to vent their unwarranted and insulting feelings against Europeans, the Swiss and people with other Political beliefs but not for those to reply (In an educated matter as well).

Also an explanation of which Rule Violation applies would be nice so we can all learn something here.

It’s not unwarranted in a thread whose sole existence is to complain about Americans. Many, many posts in this thread (and others about this topic) aggressively attack Americans, but one statement about my personal experiences with Europeans (and others! The comment literally was about the fact that we get shit from EVERY side, even our own countrymen!) and you can’t take it? Come on.

The part about Europeans not knowing US customary units wasn’t an attack — as I said, it’s not taught in school here, so how would you even be expected to know?  (In contrast, Americans are accused of not understanding metric, even though we are taught it in school alongside US units, and use some metric on a daily basis.)

[tooki]

Classic example here: https://littlegiant.com/products/hvac/condensate-removal-pumps/vcm-series/vcmx-20-series/

1/30HP? Seriously? What is a thirtieth of a horse power. This is electrically powered and is small. The unit of a HP is too large. What they mean is a mere 25W. I can understand an industrial pump being in HP but not this thing and all I'd still care about is how many horses...... err sorry I mean how much electricity I need to run it. HP is a completely useless unit of measure for something that is practically electronic!

Well, obviously it’s what you get when you buy a slice of horse!

All jokes aside, an interesting thing is the difference between e.g. US horsepower and German Pferdestärke (literally “horsepower”, but measured differently).

We don't pick pumps based on HP but flow rate and pressure developed and then look at the power consumption and ask ourselves if we have that much power available.

I'm not a redneck! I don't pick things based on power but on performance.....

I am no mechanical engineer, but I think the idea is more along the lines of: quickly choose a plausible size suggested by experience, run the numbers from the datasheet, then possibly go up or down a size to satisfy requirements. Or it could be the marketing folk at work, transmitting a warm, fuzzy, but suggestive feeling about the pump size.

I believe the motor hp is its mechanical power output, not its electrical power input (expressed in hp).

Good question. (I don’t know much about motors so I can’t add any clarity.) I do find it curious, though, that here in Europe, they also list car engine power in KW. Even though I know that there’s no intrinsic reason for watts to refer to electrical power only, that is nonetheless the context I’m used to! (And I have no feel whatsoever for how many KW make for a powerful car or not, whereas I do when it comes to cars. Internal combustion cars, at least!)

[rsjsouza]

All jokes aside, an interesting thing is the difference between e.g. US horsepower and German Pferdestärke (literally “horsepower”, but measured differently).

Similar thing with the Brazilian "cavalo vapor" or CV: slightly less powerful: 735W.

[tooki]

All jokes aside, an interesting thing is the difference between e.g. US horsepower and German Pferdestärke (literally “horsepower”, but measured differently).

Similar thing with the Brazilian "cavalo vapor" or CV: slightly less powerful: 735W.

Does that literally mean “steam horse”?

(Boooo... I wanted to insert emojis of a horse with a puff of wind behind it, but those emoji seem to cause an error in the forum software.)

Anyhow, it looks like that corresponds to what Wikipedia calls a “metric horsepower”, which apparently is what the German PS is.

[rstofer]

Extend that for the rest of the world. The various old, incompatible and cumbersome unit systems must be forgotten, relegated to the annals of history as a mere curiosity from the past.

Today the US customary units are of only parochial relevance, devoid of global importance.

US customary units were the law of the land back in '69.  You remember, July 20th, when we walked on the Moon?  How many metric only countries have done that?  Oh, wait, NONE!  The greatest achievement in all of history accomplished by those 'backward' Americans.  Were they even using metric way back then?  The work our shop did in support of NASA was all in customary units.  Yes, I know we snagged up the German scientists during and after the war and their contributions to the program are well known.  Germany always has had a superior educational system.

To cut to the chase, metric is eurocentric and the US doesn't do eurocentric.  Worse, the standards are French and we definitely don't do French.  We will never convert on a national basis.

The scientists and certain engineers will use metric, other engineers and the commoners will continue to use customary units.  There is no push to change that and static inertia will keep us from converting any time soon.
 
You could also explain the issue as a matter of elitism.  The elite use metric and the last thing they want is for the commoners to understand what they're talking about so there is no real push to convert.  Those who need to use metric can and will.  Those who don't need it will never convert.

[Monkeh]

Extend that for the rest of the world. The various old, incompatible and cumbersome unit systems must be forgotten, relegated to the annals of history as a mere curiosity from the past.

Today the US customary units are of only parochial relevance, devoid of global importance.

US customary units were the law of the land back in '69.  You remember, July 20th, when we walked on the Moon?  How many metric only countries have done that?  Oh, wait, NONE!  The greatest achievement in all of history accomplished by those 'backward' Americans.  Were they even using metric way back then?

Yes. The computer operated on metric and converted units for display and input. I've mentioned that before, but it doesn't suit your narrative.

They worked in 'customary units' (those ones you borrowed from us..) for mechanical stuff because that's what existing tooling and engineers used. Today, they do pretty much everything in metric, because they're not in a desperate race to show how superior they are to those pesky Russians and could afford the time to retool.

To cut to the chase, metric is eurocentric and the US doesn't do eurocentric.  Worse, the standards are French and we definitely don't do French.  We will never convert on a national basis.

"It's not American therefore it's bad" - right.

You could also explain the issue as a matter of elitism.  The elite use metric and the last thing they want is for the commoners to understand what they're talking about so there is no real push to convert.  Those who need to use metric can and will.  Those who don't need it will never convert.

Seems to me the elitism is in the other direction.

[SerieZ]

Extend that for the rest of the world. The various old, incompatible and cumbersome unit systems must be forgotten, relegated to the annals of history as a mere curiosity from the past.

Today the US customary units are of only parochial relevance, devoid of global importance.

US customary units were the law of the land back in '69.  You remember, July 20th, when we walked on the Moon?  How many metric only countries have done that?  Oh, wait, NONE!  The greatest achievement in all of history accomplished by those 'backward' Americans.  Were they even using metric way back then?  The work our shop did in support of NASA was all in customary units.  Yes, I know we snagged up the German scientists during and after the war and their contributions to the program are well known.  Germany always has had a superior educational system.

To cut to the chase, metric is eurocentric and the US doesn't do eurocentric.  Worse, the standards are French and we definitely don't do French.  We will never convert on a national basis.

The scientists and certain engineers will use metric, other engineers and the commoners will continue to use customary units.  There is no push to change that and static inertia will keep us from converting any time soon.
 
You could also explain the issue as a matter of elitism.  The elite use metric and the last thing they want is for the commoners to understand what they're talking about so there is no real push to convert.  Those who need to use metric can and will.  Those who don't need it will never convert.

Your first point is absolutely Irrelevant to the Question at Hand. A great Achievement nonetheless, Congratulations.

Your second point is just plain wrong.
In a Unit System Nationality is Irrelevant. Or do you believe typing in Latin Letters (Romancentric) or typing in our numeric System Arabcentric? Americans should make their own Letters and Numbers... USA being the first letter and Number.  It is quite frankly Idiotic to even bring that up unless in a measurement of Pride Contest. Plus we are in the year 2019, not '69.

Engineers are slowly but steadily switching to Metric in many many fields as it just is plain more easy and convenient to work with, unless of course you grew up being born in the USA.

The Elite do what? Are we in the 18th Century? I think our Elites just practice their Golf Game and hardly do any work with Units (hey last time I checked out Golf they were measuring in Yards lmao).



If using Customary Units is part of your Identity as American that is fine to me  Sorry if I cringe a lil tho.

[tooki]

Your first point is absolutely Irrelevant to the Question at Hand. A great Achievement nonetheless, Congratulations.

Your second point is just plain wrong.
In a Unit System Nationality is Irrelevant. Or do you believe typing in Latin Letters (Romancentric) or typing in our numeric System Arabcentric? Americans should make their own Letters and Numbers... USA being the first letter and Number.  It is quite frankly Idiotic to even bring that up unless in a measurement of Pride Contest. Plus we are in the year 2019, not '69.

Engineers are slowly but steadily switching to Metric in many many fields as it just is plain more easy and convenient to work with, unless of course you grew up being born in the USA.

The Elite do what? Are we in the 18th Century? I think our Elites just practice their Golf Game and hardly do any work with Units (hey last time I checked out Golf they were measuring in Yards lmao).



If using Customary Units is part of your Identity as American that is fine to me  Sorry if I cringe a lil tho.

As an American, I agree with you 100%. (Possibly even more, as the kind of nonsense in rstofer’s post is embarrassing to other Americans like me. I cringed when I read it.)

[tooki]

Extend that for the rest of the world. The various old, incompatible and cumbersome unit systems must be forgotten, relegated to the annals of history as a mere curiosity from the past.

Today the US customary units are of only parochial relevance, devoid of global importance.

US customary units were the law of the land back in '69.  You remember, July 20th, when we walked on the Moon?  How many metric only countries have done that?  Oh, wait, NONE!  The greatest achievement in all of history accomplished by those 'backward' Americans.  Were they even using metric way back then?

Yes. The computer operated on metric and converted units for display and input. I've mentioned that before, but it doesn't suit your narrative.

They worked in 'customary units' (those ones you borrowed from us..) for mechanical stuff because that's what existing tooling and engineers used. Today, they do pretty much everything in metric, because they're not in a desperate race to show how superior they are to those pesky Russians and could afford the time to retool.

To cut to the chase, metric is eurocentric and the US doesn't do eurocentric.  Worse, the standards are French and we definitely don't do French.  We will never convert on a national basis.

"It's not American therefore it's bad" - right.

You could also explain the issue as a matter of elitism.  The elite use metric and the last thing they want is for the commoners to understand what they're talking about so there is no real push to convert.  Those who need to use metric can and will.  Those who don't need it will never convert.

Seems to me the elitism is in the other direction.

Eh, I think it’s not elitism you’re detecting from rstofer, just ordinary arrogance regarding American exceptionalism. (My rejection of which is why folks in USA call me “eurotrash”, since I refuse to be a flag-waving, pledge-reciting, data-rejecting blind-faith “patriot”. To me, true patriotism is not blind following, but rather doing what’s actually good for the country, which begins with taking an honest look at where we stand. The belief in American exceptionalism is, IMHO, incompatible with honesty.)