why is the US not Metric

[bsfeechannel]

All jokes aside, an interesting thing is the difference between e.g. US horsepower and German Pferdestärke (literally “horsepower”, but measured differently).

Similar thing with the Brazilian "cavalo vapor" or CV: slightly less powerful: 735W.

Does that literally mean “steam horse”?

Yes. The big passenger ships used to be also called "vapor" as they were steam powered. That was probably the inspiration for the name.

The name cavalo-vapor, popularly known as cavalo, was inspired by the same unit created by James Watt, the horsepower.

With the introduction of the steam engine, the reference people had for power were horses, so how many horses (equivalent to the same power in) steam is your engine? Other languages also have similar names, like the French cheval-vapeur (or just cheval), the Italian cavallo-vapore, etc.

In countries with the Imperial System, the horsepower is still 33,000 ft lbf/min = 745.69987158227022 W

In countries with metric system the horsepower, cavalo-vapor, Pferdstärke, лошадиная сила or whatever was rounded down to 75 kgf⋅m/s = 735.49875 W.

[soldar]

The name cavalo-vapor, popularly known as cavalo, was inspired by the same unit created by James Watt, the horsepower.

With the introduction of the steam engine, the reference people had for power were horses, so how many horses (equivalent to the same power in) steam is your engine? Other languages also have similar names, like the French cheval-vapeur (or just cheval), the Italian cavallo-vapore, etc.

In countries with the Imperial System, the horsepower is still 33,000 ft lbf/min = 745.69987158227022 W

In countries with metric system the horsepower, cavalo-vapor, Pferdstärke, лошадиная сила or whatever was rounded down to 75 kgf⋅m/s = 735.49875 W.

In Spanish it is caballo de vapor, shortened to caballo but it is now an informal unit used for car advertising and for nominal denomination of electric motors but in reality there are two different units the mechanical HP and the metric HP which are close in value but different.

During the late 18th century and early 19th century motive power was classified as being blood, steam or electric. Blood was mainly horses but included any other animals and humans so that bicycles and rickshaws are "blood powered".  Searching Google I see the term is still widely used in South America and mainly by those opposed to overworking and cruelty to animals.

Tracción de sangre.

So basically at that time you could have a blood horse, a steam horse or an electric horse.

[rstofer]

The other myth is that the metric system is "eurocentric". Countries that have adopted the metric system outside Europe don't have that sentiment. Metric is international. You can buy something from a distant country, and if a screw breaks, you can find it locally. You don't have to import it from a distant land just because of their whimsical standard. People don't even think of France when they use the system. It is so ingrained in the everyday life that I guess that most don't have the slightest clue that the French started it two centuries ago. I hope that I don't hurt any French pride here, but the truth is that the French are irrelevant for the system now, since the whole world took it over.

In short, no one gets less American for going metric.

What a thing is or isn't misses the point.  The only important  point is perception.  In my view, the perception is "Metric?  Oh, that's European, isn't it?  Aren't the standards kept in France?  We'll pass..."

I know that everybody rails against my explanation but if you stop and think, the US could have easily converted over the last 50 years but hasn't.  Why not?  In my view, it's 'perception'.  If you have a better explanation, let's hear it.  After all, portions of the economy (like science and engineering) use metric, "Bob the Builder" is still using customary units.

Ma and Pa Kettle, of "Flyover, Indiana" see no purpose in changing anything.  Their family has farmed that land for generations and they aren't in a hurry to change anything.  And they vote!

Perception and the fact that there's no compelling reason to convert except to appease others.  We're getting along in our own befuddled way and we don't want the EU telling us what to do.  Again, it's perception.

Facts are not in play, only perception.

[tooki]

The other myth is that the metric system is "eurocentric". Countries that have adopted the metric system outside Europe don't have that sentiment. Metric is international. You can buy something from a distant country, and if a screw breaks, you can find it locally. You don't have to import it from a distant land just because of their whimsical standard. People don't even think of France when they use the system. It is so ingrained in the everyday life that I guess that most don't have the slightest clue that the French started it two centuries ago. I hope that I don't hurt any French pride here, but the truth is that the French are irrelevant for the system now, since the whole world took it over.

In short, no one gets less American for going metric.

What a thing is or isn't misses the point.  The only important  point is perception.  In my view, the perception is "Metric?  Oh, that's European, isn't it?  Aren't the standards kept in France?  We'll pass..."

I know that everybody rails against my explanation but if you stop and think, the US could have easily converted over the last 50 years but hasn't.  Why not?  In my view, it's 'perception'.  If you have a better explanation, let's hear it.  After all, portions of the economy (like science and engineering) use metric, "Bob the Builder" is still using customary units.

Ma and Pa Kettle, of "Flyover, Indiana" see no purpose in changing anything.  Their family has farmed that land for generations and they aren't in a hurry to change anything.  And they vote!

Perception and the fact that there's no compelling reason to convert except to appease others.  We're getting along in our own befuddled way and we don't want the EU telling us what to do.  Again, it's perception.

Facts are not in play, only perception.

What a load of steaming nonsense. You've been told the "better explanation" already, but here it is, for the "slower" reader:

People and companies do switch when it makes sense to. Detroit is as "flyover" as you can get in USA, yet American cars went metric decades ago, because it made sense.

The real reason for not switching is that switching incurs real costs and real risks, and if there's no benefit, then you won't take on that cost and risk. Nobody gives a rat's patoot about who invented the units.

[Simon]

In a word ISO, international standards organisation. Do they have any non metric standards. They are international not "european"

[tooki]

In a word ISO, international standards organisation. Do they have any non metric standards. They are international not "european"

I am pretty sure there are some ISO standards that are non-metric. I don't know which off the top of my head, but I'm fairly confident I've come across some in the past.

[Simon]

then we can use them

[rstofer]

People and companies do switch when it makes sense to. Detroit is as "flyover" as you can get in USA, yet American cars went metric decades ago, because it made sense.

Are you sure about that?  Across the board?  Last time I worked on a Ford truck, the driveline was imported and metric, the chassis was domestic and SAE.  In order to remove the transmission, I had to have SAE tools to remove the rear crossmember and metric tools to uncouple the transmission.  But that's just a practical example, let's not let facts get in the way.  It's been a few years, maybe the chassis department has changed.  Maybe it's made in Mexico like so many other cars/trucks.  For the F150, the most popular vehicle in the US, it is mostly made in the US.

As you sure that the domestic performance engines are metric?  I kind of doubt it.  There probably aren't any imported components on the Chrysler Hemi.  But I don't know that and I don't know how to find out.  Maybe take a 9/16" wrench to the showroom.  Unfortunately, a 14mm wrench is nearly identical.

I'm pretty sure NASCAR, including Toyota, are using SAE because the aftermarket parts are not imported and unlikely to be metric.  Interesting fact, NASCAR Cup cars must use pushrod type valvetrains.  Toyota doesn't make a production engine with pushrods so their engines are not derived from any 'stock' car.  They shouldn't be allowed in NASCAR but here we are.  Of course, NASCAR has drifted so far from 'stock' that they really should change their name.

The auto industry, indeed any industry, can convert to metric any time they want but the US, that is, the people, aren't going to change along with them.  The topic is "why is the US not Metric" and it has nothing to do with the auto industry.  The US itself is still using customary units and will for the foreseeable future.

If there is a business advantage to converting, business will do it.  The shareholders will insist!  But when the workers go home, they still buy beer in customary units (bottles and six-packs).

There is no reason for metric in the things that most affect people's lives and that's why we haven't changed and probably never will.

For all the good reasons posited, and they come from the same playlist created 50 years ago, we haven't budged.  And we won't...

To prove that last point, look at the total lack of success with metric road signs, something that does impact people's lives.  That experiment didn't last long!

There's only one road in America with just metric markings and that runs between Tuscon, Arizona and the Mexican border.  Not a highlight of our freeway system.  It's 63 miles or about 100 km long.  The only one...  And, even then, they had to do distance to off-ramps in meters and other distances in km.

I'm surprised it hasn't been changed back to customary units.  Why spend taxpayers dollars confusing taxpayers?

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2015/07/us/metric-road-american-story/

''I hear that the meter is based on a rod somewhere outside of Paris,'' Wolfe said, according to the Times story. ''To use that as a basis for measurement is completely arbitrary and intellectual. I should say I have tremendous admiration for the French, but a matter of this importance should not be left to them. I like the idea of the foot - as a measurement in relation to the human body.

Seems like I'm not the only one that feels that way.  It's an interesting article.

Not that it's relevant but the Ford F150 truck is the best selling vehicle in the US and has been for 36 years.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-f-series-f150-truck-sales-record-history-2017-1

[CatalinaWOW]

Rstofer, it must be a long time since you worked on that pickup.  My 1982 Caprice Classic, as American as a car can get had already started down the metric path, with about half the fasteners metric.  By the time I got my 99 Tahoe it was virtually all metric.  The classic Chevy small block was no longer a 350 cu in engine, it was 5.7 liters (with metric head bolts and other fasteners).  There are still a few traditional unit fasteners on it, (the fuel filter for example) but they are the exception.  Detroit wants to sell their cars worldwide.  One part of that is going metric and they have done so big time.  The grandson you dote on really won't need any traditional tools unless he collects classic cars. If you look at the nuts and bolts section at AutoZone the metric stuff is already starting to outnumber the SAE.

[rstofer]

Rstofer, it must be a long time since you worked on that pickup.

Indeed!  I don't work on cars any more - I let the dealer worry about it.

Whether an industry or even all industries convert to metric isn't the US converting to metric and that's the topic.  Are people using metric in their everyday lives to the exclusion of customary units and the answer is a resounding no.

The US is not metric and never will be.  For competitive reasons some industries may choose to use metric but that isn't the country, it's an industry.

Sure, the US uses metric, how can we not?  We buy everything from overseas and we sell overseas.  But the people, in their everyday lives don't use it and never will.  They may be exposed to it but they won't adopt it.

Here's a thought:  Why does anyone in the metric world care what the US does?  It's our concern, nobody else's.

[boffin]

There is no reason for metric in the things that most affect people's lives and that's why we haven't changed and probably never will.

You'll need to double the dosage of your medication if you actually believe that. 
Oh, and in what units is that dosage measured?

[CatalinaWOW]

Rstofer, it must be a long time since you worked on that pickup.

Here's a thought:  Why does anyone in the metric world care what the US does?  It's our concern, nobody else's.

While I think you are wrong on the never part on US conversion, I totally agree on this sentence.

The big reason seems to be that some folks who bought some US gear that did something they couldn't get elsewhere, or who got a fantastic bargain on US gear can't buy repair parts locally.  And if the US fully converted to metric today their problem would be even worse because those parts needed to fix their old scope or whatever wouldn't be available anywhere.  At least now they can order it from the US.

[ScroatyBallSac]

Yeah i really love the way electronics imperial units are in Mils . Being a mechanical engineer, THOU's would have been an obvious unit....
"Hey Jim. Here's a way to screw with people. Let make imperial small units called Mil's there's no way someone would confuse them with mil's volume or mm's distance"   

[tooki]

People and companies do switch when it makes sense to. Detroit is as "flyover" as you can get in USA, yet American cars went metric decades ago, because it made sense.

Are you sure about that?  Across the board?

There could be some exceptions in theory, but it's my understanding that they're practically all-metric now, since nearly all car models these days share platforms with foreign versions of the car, and this has been the case for a long time.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2015/07/us/metric-road-american-story/

''I hear that the meter is based on a rod somewhere outside of Paris,'' Wolfe said, according to the Times story. ''To use that as a basis for measurement is completely arbitrary and intellectual. I should say I have tremendous admiration for the French, but a matter of this importance should not be left to them. I like the idea of the foot - as a measurement in relation to the human body.

Seems like I'm not the only one that feels that way.  It's an interesting article.

I'm sure you're not alone, but most people don't give a crap either way.

Wasn't that interesting an article to be honest. And that quote of a quote of a quote from 1981 about what some guy thinks he heard, well, the guy was wrong. The meter was originally defined (after rejecting pendulum movement, since it's not consistent around the world) as 1 ten-millionth of the distance from the north pole to the equator: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_metre

Yes, by the French, but not based on some random Paris landmark! 

Are people using metric in their everyday lives to the exclusion of customary units and the answer is a resounding no.

To the total exclusion? No. But are people regularly using metric instead, even if not in EVERY situation? Absolutely.

The US is not metric and never will be.  For competitive reasons some industries may choose to use metric but that isn't the country, it's an industry.

The US will never be 100.000% metric — but then again, neither is any other country, even the ones who claim to be all-metric. But that's not really the benchmark. You're using your own private goalpost, not one germane to the discussion.

But is the US going to become predominantly metric? I believe so, in the mid to long run.

Here's a thought:  Why does anyone in the metric world care what the US does?  It's our concern, nobody else's.

This is the only sensible thing you've said in this entire thread, and it's a question to which I have posited an answer multiple times already: smug, arrogant prejudice against USA. No objective analysis of the situation results in a justification for the vitriol some of the anti-customary people spew.

[Macbeth]

The name cavalo-vapor, popularly known as cavalo, was inspired by the same unit created by James Watt, the horsepower.

With the introduction of the steam engine, the reference people had for power were horses, so how many horses (equivalent to the same power in) steam is your engine? Other languages also have similar names, like the French cheval-vapeur (or just cheval), the Italian cavallo-vapore, etc.

In countries with the Imperial System, the horsepower is still 33,000 ft lbf/min = 745.69987158227022 W

In countries with metric system the horsepower, cavalo-vapor, Pferdstärke, лошадиная сила or whatever was rounded down to 75 kgf⋅m/s = 735.49875 W.

That's because European continent horses are gay. Those of us in the Anti-gay horse Popular Front of Judea get taken to court all the time.   

The difference is my car is 130 PS which is great for the manufacturers marketeers when it's only 128 bhp in Imperialist UK measurements.

[rstofer]

The US is not metric and never will be.  For competitive reasons some industries may choose to use metric but that isn't the country, it's an industry.

The US will never be 100.000% metric — but then again, neither is any other country, even the ones who claim to be all-metric. But that's not really the benchmark. You're using your own private goalpost, not one germane to the discussion.

But is the US going to become predominantly metric? I believe so, in the mid to long run.

Why not a verifiable benchmark?  The US will be metric when our odometers are in units of km and we buy gasoline in liters.  The roadsigns have to be in km as well or it would be easy to cheat given electronic dashboards.  Just flip a switch and the display is metric.  That doesn't count!  The unit has to be in daily use!

But it is a verifiable benchmark.  It's a simple test and nobody can debate the conversion!  But it's not going to happen!

Yes, pharmacology has always been metric.  Clear back into the '50s I was aware of cc and mL.  It didn't mean anything, it was just the graduation on a syringe or test tube.  But those were the units, no question about it!

An interesting unit in pharmacology is microgram - abbreviated 'mcg'.  Where did that come from?  Don't believe it?  Look at the units for Folic Acid on the ordinary vitamin bottle.  Apparently 'ug' doesn't work for vitamins.

[boffin]

That's because European continent horses are gay. Those of us in the Anti-gay horse Popular Front of Judea get taken to court all the time.   

I thought you were in the People's Front ?

[Macbeth]

That's because European continent horses are gay. Those of us in the Anti-gay horse Popular Front of Judea get taken to court all the time.   

I thought you were in the People's Front ?

Splitters!

[Monkeh]

Yes, pharmacology has always been metric.  Clear back into the '50s I was aware of cc and mL.  It didn't mean anything, it was just the graduation on a syringe or test tube.  But those were the units, no question about it!

Miles don't mean anything, they're just the graduation on your odometer.

[bsfeechannel]

Here's a thought:  Why does anyone in the metric world care what the US does?  It's our concern, nobody else's.

This is the only sensible thing you've said in this entire thread, and it's a question to which I have posited an answer multiple times already: smug, arrogant prejudice against USA. No objective analysis of the situation results in a justification for the vitriol some of the anti-customary people spew.

I think the answer has been already given: perception. While the resistance to adopt metric lies in the perception of some kind of external interference in domestic affairs, imperial is perceived as antiquated, obsolete, cumbersome, incompatible, error-prone, non-standard, time-consuming, expensive.

That the "largest economy" in the world is not fully metricated is really intriguing, but the average Joe elsewhere doesn't really care.

[Simon]

Yeah i really love the way electronics imperial units are in Mils . Being a mechanical engineer, THOU's would have been an obvious unit....
"Hey Jim. Here's a way to screw with people. Let make imperial small units called Mil's there's no way someone would confuse them with mil's volume or mm's distance"   

In Italian Mille means thousand, I don't know if mills comes from some sort of language bastardisation.

[Daixiwen]

And to make things easier, in Norway, a "mil" is 10 km 

[Simon]

Well I was thinking that Italian is probably the current language that most closely approximates Latin. And many things just derive from Latin. I can often unpick the rational of a word if I consider it in both English and Italian. For example I can only tell you which day is for what planet because I know Italian where the similarity between the names of the days and the planets is so similar it is obvious.

Mill in Norway may derive from the fact that it actually means 1'000 not 1'000'000 and 1 km is 1'000 m.

[soldar]

Mile in English comes from Latin mile/milia, one thousand [steps]. It is the distance a man walks when he walks one thousand steps.

A 'mil' or thou is equal to one thousandth of an inch. Think of it as a milli-inch.

[jonovid]

my fathers shed had.
imperial AF, metric & whitworth spanners
that made under the bonnet work interesting.
and then there is today's television sizes
that started out in Imperial then went metric then back to using imperial.