Why do you think there aren't more "good" USB oscilloscopes?

[fourfathom]

In the spectrum analyzer world there is SignalHound, and while their original SA-44 analyzer is far from perfect (I have one), their high-end USB analyzers are quite capable and compete well with traditional products (I have one of those, too).  The cost difference isn't huge, but I really like the Signalhound PC software, and prefer that to the UI on my regular SA.  The smaller form-factor is also an advantage. 

OK, I have all my gear in my garage lab, unless it's sitting on my desk in the house -- I retired years ago -- but I've had plenty of experience in the industry as a tech and as an engineer.

So, perhaps SignalHound compares to Pico.  Not Chinese-cheap, good software, good performance, and apparently respected in the industry.  So it can be done, just not for $100.

[Aleksorsist]

The big problem with the current crop of USB scopes is that they're basically built like benchtop scopes without the screen, knobs and PSU. But since that's all commodity, they don't end up being all that cheaper than a comparable benchtop scope with not enough benefits compared to one.

I think a fully streaming architecture like the saleae logic series is the right way to make a "good" USB scope (and full disclosure, I am working on one right now). This would make the hardware a lot cheaper (or allow for much better front ends at the same cost), and allow for your device memory to be used as sample memory, as well as your CPU/GPU for advanced triggering, protocol decodes, and analysis. These are more direct spec benefits in addition to the (subjectively) better UI, and portability that USB scopes have always offered.

[hans]

[...]

Another reason is capturing data. No dicking around saving to a USB drive and converting etc, you just save the file and do whatever you want right where it is.

Another reason is programmability, something I'm only just appreciating now. You can make computer based scopes do insane things with a few scripts. You can save really detailed presets. You can filter, average and measure with way more flexibility than DSOs.

Another reason is that they're often not just scopes. A lot have logic analysers/AWGs/power supplies/etc. Which means one less thing to lug to a job, or one less device to use on the bench. And this goes back to the programmability thing above too- you can have your signal generator and scope talking to each other easily without having to fuck around with some archaic crap like GBIP.

Another reason is floating measurements- plug in a laptop, disconnect the charger and no ground loops.

The list goes on.

I think that many modern scopes have USB device functionality, so you can make screengrabs or download waveform data to CSV, or remote control the device. But... they are sooo damn slow to use in my experience. It's feels very much like an afterthought: "so we have this LAN port, let's implement the bare minimum and call it a day".

This is akin to my experience with LA's on oscilloscopes. Yes you can do serial decodes to quickly see what's going on.. much better than decoding by hand (if reliable). But other the power features are severely lacking, and this is where you would get a LA. Also, if you're using a scope or LA for any prolonged periods of time, I hope you've made adequate accommodations for a good posture.. Most oscilloscopes still use 10" screens or smaller, with low resolutions, and are placed far at the back of the bench. This makes it a nightmare for eye strain and ergonomics.

Having the ability to see waveforms in full HD glory while running code on another screen is great. Most bench-scope USB device I've used don't allow these functions; you either get a screengrab in native res of the scope (sometimes 800x480), or have to use this awkwardly slow waveform downloads and trigger set up to make actual use of the device. I tried to use my bench scopes via USB/LAN at some point in the hopes I don't have to *be* at my soldering/tinkering desk (modern tools have high levels of sophistication  right?) but was thoroughly disappointed. If a USB scope can't be used properly via it's supplied desktop software, then likewise with a LA, it's going straight back to the manufacturer.

[Gyro]

The cheap screens on desktop scopes is something that I still don't get. They seem to have poor resoulutions compared to what you can get out of a tablet screen for instance. Even at 2 channels, with all the menu and readout stuff around the edges you're lucky to get 6 bit resolution on a 2 channel scope, let alone a 4 channel. Is it just cheaping out or lack of processing power?

[TomKatt]

The cheap screens on desktop scopes is something that I still don't get. They seem to have poor resoulutions compared to what you can get out of a tablet screen for instance. Even at 2 channels, with all the menu and readout stuff around the edges you're lucky to get 6 bit resolution on a 2 channel scope, let alone a 4 channel. Is it just cheaping out or lack of processing power?

A smart watch has almost as much vertical resolution and nearly half the horizontal than many of these 'big' 7" screens with 800x480 pixels 

[EEVblog]

Having the ability to see waveforms in full HD glory while running code on another screen is great. Most bench-scope USB device I've used don't allow these functions; you either get a screengrab in native res of the scope (sometimes 800x480), or have to use this awkwardly slow waveform downloads and trigger set up to make actual use of the device. I tried to use my bench scopes via USB/LAN at some point in the hopes I don't have to *be* at my soldering/tinkering desk (modern tools have high levels of sophistication  right?) but was thoroughly disappointed. If a USB scope can't be used properly via it's supplied desktop software, then likewise with a LA, it's going straight back to the manufacturer.

Many bench scopes have HDMI output these days.

[SiliconWizard]

Define "good". In terms of hardware specs, the higher-end Picoscope series certainly is pretty good and rivals or exceeds many standalone oscilloscopes (like the 5000/6000 series.)
They are not cheap though.

In terms of UI, that's a very personal point. Many of us still find standalone oscilloscopes more usable in terms of UI, at least for "normal", bench work. OTOH, USB oscilloscopes allow stuff that is clunky on standalone ones, so really depends on your workflow and needs.

Now again, if you equate "good" with great hardware specs and low cost, you'll be out of luck.
The decent or good USB oscilloscopes will usually be more expensive than the low-end standalone ones from Rigol or the "low-cost" brands such as Owon and such, but they'll usually have more sample memory.

[bdunham7]

I would have thought that it would be rather straightforward to use a front end of bench gear quality in a box with a fast USB3 link... 
So why do you think there aren't more USB scopes on the market?

The fastest USB3 links aren't even remotely close to matching the internal data transfer rates in an oscilloscope.  You can remote the display and control interface, but if you offload the actual captures to the PC for processing, it won't happen as quickly.  This is a limitation of PicoScopes, although not a problem in most cases.  You simply can't dump data at the full capture rate to the PC memory, you have to make a capture and then wait for it to be transmitted. 

It can be done, sort of.  There are PicoScopes and then there are high-end headless DSOs that are not all-in-a-box solutions.  However, I think the one-box design is probably the most efficient for normal workbenches.  Many of these have external video, remote interfaces and PC data transfer capability as well.

[David Aurora]

Has anyone here gotten some time on one of these yet?

https://digilent.com/shop/analog-discovery-pro-3000-series-portable-high-resolution-mixed-signal-oscilloscopes/

I'd be really keen to see what they're like given how much I already like their software with my AD2

[EEVblog]

Has anyone here gotten some time on one of these yet?
https://digilent.com/shop/analog-discovery-pro-3000-series-portable-high-resolution-mixed-signal-oscilloscopes/
I'd be really keen to see what they're like given how much I already like their software with my AD2

The obvious limitation here is the lack of a proper analog front end, it's just a single fixed voltage range. Sure it's got 14bit, but it ain't in the same class a bench scope. And only 100MS/s
Does look very nice though if you have specific needs.
Is it the same software?

[thm_w]

Good low end option is dslogic: https://www.dreamsourcelab.com/product/dscope-series/
and no its not great value for money, likely due to the mentioned reason of low market volume. Could a major brand come out with a killer value USB scope? yeah. Would they ever do it? Probably not.

Has anyone here gotten some time on one of these yet?

https://digilent.com/shop/analog-discovery-pro-3000-series-portable-high-resolution-mixed-signal-oscilloscopes/

I'd be really keen to see what they're like given how much I already like their software with my AD2

55MHz bandwidth, and 100MS/s, for $1200. Very very few people on this forum would want something like that. Unless it was for a specific logging task that required 14-bit.

[Aleksorsist]

10 gbps USB 3 Gen 2x1 (awful naming aside) would actually be enough to stream the data from any of the 1000 series 8-bit 1GSPS (8gbps) scopes in real time. Go with PCIe through Thunderbolt/USB4 and you get 40 gbps to play with, plus DMA to make storing and processing all that data much easier on the host system.

As for what is "good", I'd agree that the 5000 series picoscope is a good USB scope, but it's price point is not remotely close to being competitive with sigilent/rigol. I don't know how much of it is markup versus the BOM cost for it being high, but it very likely uses the hmcad1520 which isn't really that expensive for what it is.

[Someone]

Tek 5 and 6 series low profile
https://www.tek.com/en/products/oscilloscopes/high-speed-digitizers/5-series-mso-low-profile
https://www.tek.com/en/products/oscilloscopes/high-speed-digitizers/6-series-mso-low-profile
Siglent SDS6000L
https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds6000l-low-profile-digital-storage-oscilloscope/
Rigol DS8000-R
https://www.rigol.eu/products/oscillosopes/DS8000.html
Keysight U270xA or P924xA
https://www.keysight.com/zz/en/product/U2702A/usb-modular-oscilloscope-200mhz.html
https://www.keysight.com/zz/en/product/P9243A/streamline-series-usb-oscilloscope-1-ghz.html

thats before PXI PCI or LXI chassis, which have even more options....

Most of the majors have USB scopes.

So why do you think there aren't more USB scopes on the market?

Because there isn't the demand you imagine there to be.

[David Aurora]

Has anyone here gotten some time on one of these yet?
https://digilent.com/shop/analog-discovery-pro-3000-series-portable-high-resolution-mixed-signal-oscilloscopes/
I'd be really keen to see what they're like given how much I already like their software with my AD2

The obvious limitation here is the lack of a proper analog front end, it's just a single fixed voltage range. Sure it's got 14bit, but it ain't in the same class a bench scope. And only 100MS/s
Does look very nice though if you have specific needs.
Is it the same software?

Really? I hadn't looked deep enough to catch that, bummer

Yeah same software

I wonder if they'll be adding anything else to the range in the near future. They do seem super active on the software side of things

[tautech]

Siglent SDS6000L
https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds6000l-low-profile-digital-storage-oscilloscope/

Is hardly a USB scope. 

Instead it's a remote acquisition system with 4 or 8 channels and multiple units can be remotely linked and synced for up to 512 channels.

It might look like a USB scope but that's all as you connect a keyboard, mouse, mains and a display to it however it can also mimic a USB scope in that you can use a PC to drive it like any scope with webserver capability.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds6000l-2ghz-12bit-8-ch-(china-only)/

[EEVblog]

Siglent SDS6000L
https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds6000l-low-profile-digital-storage-oscilloscope/

Is hardly a USB scope. 

Instead it's a remote acquisition system with 4 or 8 channels and multiple units can be remotely linked and synced for up to 512 channels.

It might look like a USB scope but that's all as you connect a keyboard, mouse, mains and a display to it however it can also mimic a USB scope in that you can use a PC to drive it like any scope with webserver capability.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds6000l-2ghz-12bit-8-ch-(china-only)/

That's the kind of thing you get when you are running some large scale scientific experiemnt to collect huge numbers of channels of data. Quite niche.

[tautech]

That's the kind of thing you get when you are running some large scale scientific experiment to collect huge numbers of channels of data. Quite niche.

Or production monitoring/control applications.

That they can be scattered about linked by LAN and also synced with the purpose built SYNC64 module and able to be controlled from a single location makes for a darn powerful system with each 4ch set a headless SDS6000A DSO with all its 5 GSa/s per channel capability but minus a touch display like the scope has.

[Someone]

Siglent SDS6000Lhttps://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds6000l-low-profile-digital-storage-oscilloscope/

Is hardly a USB scope. 

Is it a scope? Yes.
Can it be used from a PC over a standard computer interface? Yes (only on ethernet? no IP serving over USB?).
Sure seems to be what the OP was asking about:

I would have thought that it would be rather straightforward to use a front end of bench gear quality in a box with a fast USB3 link...  The cost savings of using PC hardware for control and display would surely allow such gear to be price competitive?

however it can also mimic a USB scope in that you can use a PC to drive it like any scope with webserver capability.

Yep so it can be a computer connected scope, with the same front end and processing of its "fully equipped" version. Exactly what the OP was asking about!

[james_s]

USB scopes are a really niche market item. The computer side with the display and whatnot is so cheap these days that there is very little saved in going with the USB form factor that requires you to drag around a computer and deal with cumbersome controls. For around the same price you can get a standalone instrument. I've used USB TE before and have never been impressed, it's less convenient and offers few advantages. Back in the day the promise was cheaper gear by not having to duplicate the processor and display and such but it never really lived up to that promise IMO.

[David Aurora]

USB scopes are a really niche market item. The computer side with the display and whatnot is so cheap these days that there is very little saved in going with the USB form factor that requires you to drag around a computer and deal with cumbersome controls. For around the same price you can get a standalone instrument. I've used USB TE before and have never been impressed, it's less convenient and offers few advantages. Back in the day the promise was cheaper gear by not having to duplicate the processor and display and such but it never really lived up to that promise IMO.

Speaking for myself, it's not that I'm trying to save a few measly dollars on the screen or power supply or whatever. It's that when I'm called out to a job I already have my laptop with me with a nice big screen and the necessary processing power to run a scope/sig gen/etc, as well as a few bags of tools and test leads and stuff. Carrying less gear helps, especially when parking sucks, there are a million stairs or it's a dodgy area. And it's not just that it saves lugging one scope- it also saves me needing to lug a signal generator, and also an isolation transformer in some cases. Which also means I don't need a power board, extension cables, etc... It all adds up.

[james_s]

Well there are niche uses like yours, but I don't think most scope users are in that situation. Personally I find a compact standalone scope more convenient.

[EEVblog]

USB scopes are a really niche market item. The computer side with the display and whatnot is so cheap these days that there is very little saved in going with the USB form factor that requires you to drag around a computer and deal with cumbersome controls. For around the same price you can get a standalone instrument. I've used USB TE before and have never been impressed, it's less convenient and offers few advantages. Back in the day the promise was cheaper gear by not having to duplicate the processor and display and such but it never really lived up to that promise IMO.

Speaking for myself, it's not that I'm trying to save a few measly dollars on the screen or power supply or whatever. It's that when I'm called out to a job I already have my laptop with me with a nice big screen and the necessary processing power to run a scope/sig gen/etc, as well as a few bags of tools and test leads and stuff. Carrying less gear helps, especially when parking sucks, there are a million stairs or it's a dodgy area. And it's not just that it saves lugging one scope- it also saves me needing to lug a signal generator, and also an isolation transformer in some cases. Which also means I don't need a power board, extension cables, etc... It all adds up.

Small tablet scope?
Not a huge amount bigger than a USB scope box and more convenient.
The problem is as others have said, the market for such things is not big. It seems to be either ultra-cheap (Hantek/Owon etc), educational (Analog Discovery), niche like Cleverscope, or pro level modular stuff like Keysigt and others do. Or even the Scopemeter type devices.
You seen to want say a screenless scope equivlent to say a $400 Rigol/Siglent type scope. What's wrong with a Picoscope, isn't that what you want?

[peter-h]

From the commercial POV, a USB scope implies "cheap" and the mfg is not able to make a lot of money on it.

Also you need a laptop, and laptops are going out of fashion.

More and more people run their entire life on a phone, which is why those of us who can read and write struggle so much with communicating with so many illiterate people

Some use a tablet, which in general doesn't do USB usefully; Apple ones are well crippled like everything from Apple, and while Android are better you still get very limited USB operation. And you get huge OS version dependencies so a USB scope may have a limited life because pretty soon the tablet which works with it exists only on ebay. I use USB endoscopes (borescopes, in aviation) which tend to be chinese made and getting them to work on a particular phone is OK for a year or two... One borescope is now "fixed" to a specific Samsung phone which lives with it in the same box, and I am sure that in a few years that $300 borescope will go in the bin because that phone will die. Tablets are also going out of fashion, with little or no performance development especially in the android sphere. Also, as I well know from aviation use, all modern tablets suffer badly from overheating... get direct sunlight on it and the internal sensor shuts it down at about +45C especially if the charger is connected, and in a DSO usage you will need constant external power. So you have to buy one of those holders which has fans built into it.

Also nobody wants to compete with the chinese; they always pick the low hanging fruit and destroy the market for everybody in the West. The smart thing is to go upmarket. DSOs exploded with cheap 1gsps ADCs which I think are down to $5 now and everybody and their dog in china is churning out DSOs with those ADCs, and if you want to make a DSO with say 5-10gsps then you are spending real money on the ADCs and on other hardware, and making it USB-only just tells potential customers that you are "cheap".

Also a dedicated self contained box is nice to use. I have a Lecroy 3034 here and while the OS is sh*it and slow as a pig, the whole package, with nice knobs, is quite good. I can even access it over RDP (remote desktop) or the LC application can run over a VPN (poorly but usably). That scope was about 5k and it will work for many years. Well... it blew up after 1 year and got fixed under warranty but has been ok since; I leave it running 24/7

[tautech]

I have a Lecroy 3034 here and while the OS is sh*it and slow as a pig, the whole package, with nice knobs, is quite good. I can even access it over RDP (remote desktop) or the LC application can run over a VPN (poorly but usably).

Oh, an early SDS3000 rebrand. Yes they were treacle slow according to complaints but the one I briefly used at Siglent HQ in 2014 seemed fine.
The latest version SDS3000X with a Xilinx processor upgrade is apparently much better but like the SDS3000 models only available to the west as a LeCroy.

[David Hess]

The cheap screens on desktop scopes is something that I still don't get. They seem to have poor resoulutions compared to what you can get out of a tablet screen for instance. Even at 2 channels, with all the menu and readout stuff around the edges you're lucky to get 6 bit resolution on a 2 channel scope, let alone a 4 channel. Is it just cheaping out or lack of processing power?

It could be, especially since producing the display for a higher resolution and depth screen would lower the peak number of acquisitions per second.  Which sounds better for marketing, 40,000 acquisitions per second or 10,000 with a higher definition screen that looks practically the same?