What's your experience with EE studies ?

[Refrigerator]

I'll be starting my EE studies in a uni soon and i'd like to know how things are going once you start your studies.
Various opinions welcome, i like knowing as much as i can before getting involved with something.
I do have a few questions in particular.
1. What are the first things you do ? ( learn Ohm's law ? 2+2=4 ? )
2. How easy is it at first and how quickly does it get difficult ? ( the learning curve )
3. How soon until you start making real projects ? ( idea ->  r&d -> end product )
4. Are projects assigned for groups or are they individual ? ( Which is more common ? )
5. How often do you get to make real projects ?
6. What takes up the bulk of your time during studies ? ( regarding lecture content )

Thanks in advance, i'll looking forward to your replies.

[dmills]

I am assuming a university level affair:
It is VERY heavy on the math the first couple of years, and real projects are a once in a blue moon thing, you can probably pass the course without ever once touching a soldering iron, never mind a layout package!

As memory serves, first year for me (20 odd years ago) looked something like:

Circuit theory - They mean various methods of mesh analysis.
Engineering mathematics - Basically more calculus and linear algebra, think line and surface integrals, basis functions and various transforms, and a mess of matrix methods, needed for the following two courses:
Electromagnetism - Here be calculus (And really messy units).
Control theory - Here are those transforms, mainly Laplace as a means to solve ODEs.
Professional practise - Here be the bullshit.

There were some lab based courses:
Embedded systems - Wire wrapping and programming toy robots.
Labs for 1 morning a week - build (And make notes on, important bit that) trivial things.

Group projects tended to be the usual, one who is competent and carries the others that seems so popular in education.   

Learning curve very much depends on how much of a math monster you are, degrees are mostly NOT practical (That is not really the point), and attempts to make them so devalue them IMHO.
Hit the math books hard at the start, knowing how to solve integration problems (including in more then one variable) and some matrix methods (Gaussian elimination), inverting matrices, all that kind of pain) will stand you in good stead. I don't know if 'Engineering mathematics' (KA Stroud) is still the common math book (Horrible book IMHO), but it contains lots of examples, do take the time to work them.

A word of advice, DO attend the lectures, even the ones covering stuff you think you know, very hard to catch up if you misjudge it.

73 Dan.

[Alex Eisenhut]

Keep your head in the books, get it over with, it's not at age 45 with a half-dead brain you're going to do it, so do it now!

Don't try to understand the relevance of your courses to the industry. It's about passing the exam. That's all. You'll have the rest of your life to figure out the industry.

[IanB]

I'll be starting my EE studies in a uni soon and i'd like to know how things are going once you start your studies.
Various opinions welcome, i like knowing as much as i can before getting involved with something.
I do have a few questions in particular.
1. What are the first things you do ? ( learn Ohm's law ? 2+2=4 ? )
2. How easy is it at first and how quickly does it get difficult ? ( the learning curve )
3. How soon until you start making real projects ? ( idea ->  r&d -> end product )
4. Are projects assigned for groups or are they individual ? ( Which is more common ? )
5. How often do you get to make real projects ?
6. What takes up the bulk of your time during studies ? ( regarding lecture content )

Thanks in advance, i'll looking forward to your replies.

The details are going to vary according to which institution you study at and in which country.

However, here are a few suggested answers:

You will begin by studying science fundamentals (physics primarily, and other other subjects), and mathematics.

Don't expect it to be easy. Compared to high school it will be hard, and will get harder.

Practical work initially will be laboratory exercises. You perform experiments, record the results, and write a report. These are designed to back up the theory you have been learning to help ground it in reality.

Projects usually come later, typically in the last couple of years of a course. They could be group projects or individual projects. Check with your institution to find out how they organize things.

In a university environment you are expected to be self motivated and to do your own learning. Lectures give you a framework for what you should know about, but expect to spend a lot of time doing your own studying and research, reading books and doing tutorial exercises. You do not learn in lectures, you learn by doing.

The most important advice I could give is to keep up with the work and do not fall behind.

[Someone]

2. How easy is it at first and how quickly does it get difficult ? ( the learning curve )

Easy to start if you've done the prerequisites, there is a good semester or two of just getting people up to the same standard before the difficult work begins. Dropout rates in the second and third years can be very high.

3. How soon until you start making real projects ? ( idea ->  r&d -> end product )

Possibly never, a project of such large scope is impossible to fit into coursework. Projects will touch on small concepts and processes at a time, unless you get involved in projects in your free time its unlikely you'll see anything though from start to finish. End Products are a world away from anything in university, productisation is a skill of its own amongst engineering, business, marketing, etc.

5. How often do you get to make real projects ?

Probably never, if you want projects of substance you'll need to find them through extracurricular activities which vary wildly between institutions and years.

[abraxa]

I can only speak for my German education, so of course it may differ to where you are.

> 1. What are the first things you do ? ( learn Ohm's law ? 2+2=4 ? )

Since you're in Lithuania, I took the liberty to pull from the KTU:

https://admissions.ktu.edu/programme/electrical-engineering/#dalykai
Switching to "Semesters" on the top right shows you what they do and when.
Not really surprising for me is the inclusion of non-related subjects in the first semester - here in Germany, we call that the "studium generale" and it serves the purpose of letting students learn about things unrelated to their main course of study.

> 2. How easy is it at first and how quickly does it get difficult ? ( the learning curve )

Depends on the unversity and the professors. The professors I had that taught the low-semester EE courses were always unhappy with the students and made it very clear that a lot of them do not belong. Quote: "I'd like you to look at the person sitting to your left. Now look at the person sitting to your right. Next semester, they'll both be gone." They wanted to weed out the ones who don't have the passion/determination/skill. If you happen to encounter such a professor then you need to do whatever you can to pass the course. It'll be much easier afterwards and if you do survive, the professor who was arrogant before suddently becomes friendly and helpful.

Of course, there are also the professors who are about to retire, letting virtually anyone pass. It always depends.

> 3. How soon until you start making real projects ? ( idea ->  r&d -> end product )

End product? At university? Never
You need to show that you have the right ideas, that you can implement them and that you know what you're doing. The finishing touches (e.g. actually building the thing) are left as an exercise to the reader.

> 4. Are projects assigned for groups or are they individual ? ( Which is more common ? )

For me it was almost always group work, unfortunately. The only times when that was different was when the projects replaced exams.

> 5. How often do you get to make real projects ?

Every day! At home, in your spare time. If you don't do this, you don't have enough passion in my opinion. There are way too many EE/CS engineers who have great degrees but are worthless in the real world. Employers know this, so you'll have a much easier time doing your internship/thesis at a company if you can show them some projects you have done in your spare time. It's a HUGE bonus from my experience - simply because the majority of students don't have anything to show to HR other than a grade sheet.

> 6. What takes up the bulk of your time during studies ? ( regarding lecture content )

Some courses require what is pretty much "homework". That takes quite some time. Other than that, it's helpful to read ahead so you can use the lecture to fill the gaps instead of having the gaps appear after the lecture - but that's not always possible, of course. The rest of the time should be spent socializing (engineering clubs), doing hobbies (electronics, of course) and working out to stay balanced.

[rstofer]

Around here (US) it is commonly suggested that there be 3 hours of homework for every unit (hour) of class.  So, that 5 unit Calculus 1 class needs about 15 hours of homework per week.  A 15 unit semester load is about 45 hours of homework + 15 hours of class => a 60 hour workweek.  Say 9 hours per day, every day, for the entire duration - 4 years minimum.

The calculus class alone requires 8am-5pm on both Saturday and Sunday with an hour off for lunch.  Planning to spend this much time (and toward the end of the semester it really will be required) allows time for watching related videos from Khan Academy or The Calculus Professor (or any of a number of sources).  You will also have time to develop skills with wxMaxima or Matlab.  You will need them!

Sometimes you catch a break and one of the General Education courses doesn't require all that much effort.  It probably doesn't add very many units either.

Those 1 unit lab classes suck up a lot of time and yield almost no units.

There's still time for Pizza and Beer but not a lot.  EE school is serious business.  Those smiling students you see wandering around campus, laughing and having a good time?  They're not in the EE program!

[rstofer]

One other thing:  EE is ALL math.  That's pretty much true with any engineering major.  If you do well at math, that's great!  If math is a struggle, engineering is going to be difficult.

The only way to learn math is to solve problems.  Lots and lots of problems.  And that's why it takes so many hours of homework to absorb the material.  There's a reason the instructor assigns all the even numbered problems - ALL of them!  Assuming, of course, that your book has the answers to the odd problems.  You work most of the odd problems just to be able to check the answer plus all of the even problems because some of them will be on the quiz.  You wind up working pretty much all of them.

Remember:  The difference between an adventure and an ordeal is attitude!  Just laugh and hit the books some more!  Or, if you like the Penguins:  "Just Smile and Wave!".

[tszaboo]

East europe:
EE University study is just soul crashing. They beat you, until the weak runs away. Dont get too attached to people in the first year, they might be gone soon.
You need to know in advance, which course is there to eliminate people. It's all about information. Which prof to choose, because for the same subject. prof 1 is easy while prof 2 might send the entire class back to square 1. You need to know these things, otherwise you will not survive.
You come out knowing more than west europeans, who spent their time on learning how to build a bridge and unrelated stuff.
You also learn, how to drink like a real man.
Try to have fun.

[darko31]

Currently 4th year mechatronics student. Everything said here is absolutely true.

First couple of years is very math heavy,  you simply have to practice it. It helps that most of the math problems are basically pattern. Just attend the lectures and you'll be fine.

I've personally passed math classes with minimal grades and then made up my GPA on other classes, but in retrospect, it wasn't a greatest of tactics.

What I can recommend is to try to be a part of some extra projects, electronics clubs, various projects organized by the university. It's interesting experience, where you learn about actual fun stuff, and other real life matters like organisation in projects, managment, logistics, teamwork, etc(good and bad sides).

For the classes itself, take calculated shortcuts, don't skip on the important stuff, but for  boring classes use materials from older students, and take their advice on what is best way to pass particular subject.

And to repeat NANDBlog's post, drink (but not too much ), and try to have fun.

[Refrigerator]

Regarding maths i used to be pretty good at it but then bad teachers came along and it kind of slipped away.
But i still like maths, it was my favorite subject when i started school.
I'm also a quick learner so i think i'll be allright.
Regarding attitude i'm pumped to go there and get stuff done.

[darko31]

Regarding maths i used to be pretty good at it but then bad teachers came along and it kind of slipped away.
But i still like maths, it was my favorite subject when i started school.
I'm also a quick learner so i think i'll be allright.
Regarding attitude i'm pumped to go there and get stuff done.

That's nice attiutude, and I don't wanna burst your buble, but uni will drain that pretty soon. From tedious and boring homework to boring lectures and arrogant professors and teaching assistants, you'll probably encounter one of these things, if not all. Important thing is the continuity, organise your time carefully, and consider this basically like a job.

[rstofer]

It was mentioned above where there is a heck of a dropout rate after the second year.  It isn't that the work is so much harder, it's just that it has become mind numbing and boring.  I had a real problem in my 3rd and 4th years and lost almost all interest.  I already had what I wanted to get (digital circuits) and Maxwell just wasn't interesting.  I did like Statics and Dynamics and maybe a bit of Heat Transfer but that just wasn't enough.

At that point, you need to do a serious gut check and realize you just have to slug it out. 

Grad school, OTOH, was fun!  I got to take courses I wanted (again, digital) and only had to take a three classes that I didn't want.  It was great!  Also, I was taking about 12 units at night and working full time.  I didn't have time to get burned out.  I knocked out the 31 units in 3 semesters (1 year).  I would have enjoyed it more if I didn't have to work...

Working full time and going to school at night pretty much sums up my undergrad as well.  It was a beast!

Not so funny thing:  I never did work in electronic engineering.  Mostly I did electrical (power) and construction management.  Just the way it worked out...  The MSEE got me through the door, the rest was based on results.

[Refrigerator]

Even if studies drain my will to live i think my electronics hobby will keep me afloat. 

[rstofer]

Even if studies drain my will to live i think my electronics hoby will keep me afloat. 

Maybe...

In my case, I wanted to learn how an NC mill with several hundred HP of cutting motors, a 50' long bed, 20' wide could be controlled by an 8 channel punched tape.  By the end of the second year, I had the answers.

The last two years were a struggle.  Seriously, Field Theory (Electromagnetics), Motors Rotors and Dynamos, Statics, Dynamics, perhaps most of Heat Transfer, and some of the other courses just don't show up in my hobby level projects.  At least not directly.  Chem and 2 semesters of Physics was fun but not all that applicable although I really like Physics.  I think my undergrad was about 143 units and far less than half of them apply to my hobby.  DC Circuits, AC Circuits, Logic Design and maybe a couple of the others were the only ones that mattered.

If you want to ruin your hobby, do it for a living!  I used to love working on cars when I was a kid.  Then I worked in a garage working on other people's cars.  Today I don't work on them at all!

[4CX35000]

I am assuming a university level affair:
It is VERY heavy on the math the first couple of years, and real projects are a once in a blue moon thing, you can probably pass the course without ever once touching a soldering iron, never mind a layout package!

Hit the math books hard at the start, knowing how to solve integration problems (including in more then one variable) and some matrix methods (Gaussian elimination), inverting matrices, all that kind of pain) will stand you in good stead. I don't know if 'Engineering mathematics' (KA Stroud) is still the common math book (Horrible book IMHO), but it contains lots of examples, do take the time to work them.

The more advanced you go the less time you will spend on the tools, that is my experience. When I did my Masters (Next level up from degree) the majority of the subject was spent in the classroom and the library with only a short period spent in a lab looking at some advanced test equipment.

I was in a book shop several week ago and started looking at the updated version of that KA Stroud book on Mathematics and it has got much bigger with several extra chapters recently added. There is also the Advanced Engineering Mathematics book which goes even deeper with Laplace Transforms (used in DSP), Vector Analysis and Complex Analysis. We used it in the second year advanced mathematics module.

[tggzzz]

Scribble lecture notes during the lecture.
Rewrite the scribbles within two hours - you will discover what you thought you understood, but don't, and be able to correct it soonest. It will make revision much easier.

Do extra-curricular projects, make many mistakes, decide what you would do better next time. It will demonstrate to employers really that you'll do their work because you love it, and that you are continually seeking to improve your skills.

[coppice]

I was in a book shop several week ago and started looking at the updated version of that KA Stroud book on Mathematics and it has got much bigger with several extra chapters recently added. There is also the Advanced Engineering Mathematics book which goes even deeper with Laplace Transforms (used in DSP), Vector Analysis and Complex Analysis. We used it in the second year advanced mathematics module.

There is more than one book called Advanced Engineering Mathematics, so its important to specify which one you mean. From your context I assume you means the K A Stroud one. The book we started with at college was the one by Erwin Kreyszig. That has some good qualities.

[abraxa]

If you want to ruin your hobby, do it for a living!  I used to love working on cars when I was a kid.  Then I worked in a garage working on other people's cars.  Today I don't work on them at all!

That's not true for everyone though. You can have both: hobby as a job and still enjoying the hobby in private, too. Both sides of that same coin can benefit from another for sure

[Neomys Sapiens]

The more advanced you go the less time you will spend on the tools, that is my experience.

This holds true far beyond your education, and in quite another sense. The real tools mentioned are the good ones, which you should never leave out of sight, as there is nothing more embarassing than an engineer totally lacking practical skills.
But what I want to point out: A lot of lesser engineers are stuck in 'tool-oriented' jobs, which are defined by being totally focused on being fluent with this CAE-Software or that development environment or being current in MISRA or whatever BS. They will never proceed beyond that. When I declare that I could perform this or that myself with just the slightest orientation, normally they already bring someone forward to do it. As my job is analysis and design, not operator.
If you want to arrive at this point, do not believe anyone telling you that you do not need to know about relays because you can do FPGAs. You should aim to attain solid professional knowledge in ALL basic areas of electrical engineering, ranging from power distribution to circuit design and signal processing and THEN add the specialization(s) on top. And you will need to keep that basic knowledge current and available. And be prepared to expand it later. Preferably with joy, not dread. I have seen some of these guys throwing away their most important works of reference right on getting a job. This is ridiculous, as anyone experienced can tell you that you cannot keep those details but they matter. If you land a job and nobody is concerned about such deficiencies, you are in deep shit and you will soon be named a 'Powerpoint engineer'.
So you should speng most time and energy not on memorizing formulas for the best possible grade, but on building experience in problem solving and in tracing things back to their basic physical phenomena.
Further, you should not get stuck in the academic worls, but take up as much EE-oriented jobs and activities in parallel as you can. You will design better switchboards if you had to wire some and you will have important knowledge about failures if you keep looking at anything broken.

Because what is really needed, are very good engineers. We have to many of the other kind, and they are impeding technical progress.

[Mattjd]

ECE student here, I'll echo what others have said. I'll add that for me I've noticed lectures are next to fucking useless. That hour or two spent in the class room, twice a week, is better spent learning the material on my own, sitting in front of the textbook and digesting every single word. The most difficult part of this method is that sometimes you'll learn stuff that you wont be tested on, it helps if the professor gives an extremely detailed syllabus. Deriving all the equations and going through all the math  (even if you hate) helps reinforce and retain the information imho. I'll spend 4-5 hrs reading the entire chapter, but remember it all. Sometimes I'll read a single paragraph 6 times, I wont move on until I know what is being said.

I think reading the text, or whatever material, on your own, at your own pace,  is more organic. If I hit a spot I don't understand, I try to pin point whatever mathematical-step/paragraph/sentence/word I am not understanding and look up my issue. I believe this also teaches problem solving. I've had to learn to "see the forest from the trees" i.e. I've had to learn how to differentiate between the big picture and the individual parts that make it up. If its a math issue (assuming not algebraic), I've found abstracting away the applied part, and looking at the overall structure to be helpful with determining my issue.

[IanB]

If you want to arrive at this point, do not believe anyone telling you that you do not need to know about relays because you can do FPGAs. You should aim to attain solid professional knowledge in ALL basic areas of electrical engineering, ranging from power distribution to circuit design and signal processing and THEN add the specialization(s) on top. And you will need to keep that basic knowledge current and available. And be prepared to expand it later.

Absolutely. I have been a practicing engineer for over 30 years and I am still buying books and learning new things. There is really no end to education.

[IanB]

ECE student here, I'll echo what others have said. I'll add that for me I've noticed lectures are next to fucking useless.

I think this is true. In my experience lectures exist to tell you what you are likely to be examined on, but if you want to absorb that knowledge and pass the exams, you have to put the work in to learn it by yourself.

A second benefit of lectures is that you can ask questions about the material. You can't ask a textbook questions if there is something you don't understand.

[CopperCone]

its like the movie 'hamburger hill' 



The Battle of Hamburger Hill was a battle of the Vietnam War that was fought by the United States and South Vietnam against North Vietnamese forces from May 10–20, 1969 (main part of Operation Apache Snow). Although the heavily fortified Hill 937 was of little strategic value, U.S. command ordered its capture by a frontal assault, only to abandon it soon thereafter. The action caused a controversy both in the American military and public.

The battle was primarily an infantry engagement, with the U.S. Airborne troops moving up the steeply-sloped hill against well entrenched troops. Attacks were repeatedly repelled by the North Vietnamese People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) defenses. Bad weather also hindered operations. Nevertheless, the Airborne troops took the hill through direct assault, causing extensive casualties to the NVA forces.



and then half the kids end up as programmers despite having to deal with multivariable calculus and semiconductor physics lol

[tggzzz]

The more advanced you go the less time you will spend on the tools, that is my experience.

This holds true far beyond your education, and in quite another sense. The real tools mentioned are the good ones, which you should never leave out of sight, as there is nothing more embarassing than an engineer totally lacking practical skills.
But what I want to point out: A lot of lesser engineers are stuck in 'tool-oriented' jobs, which are defined by being totally focused on being fluent with this CAE-Software or that development environment or being current in MISRA or whatever BS. They will never proceed beyond that. When I declare that I could perform this or that myself with just the slightest orientation, normally they already bring someone forward to do it. As my job is analysis and design, not operator.
If you want to arrive at this point, do not believe anyone telling you that you do not need to know about relays because you can do FPGAs. You should aim to attain solid professional knowledge in ALL basic areas of electrical engineering, ranging from power distribution to circuit design and signal processing and THEN add the specialization(s) on top. And you will need to keep that basic knowledge current and available. And be prepared to expand it later. Preferably with joy, not dread. I have seen some of these guys throwing away their most important works of reference right on getting a job. This is ridiculous, as anyone experienced can tell you that you cannot keep those details but they matter. If you land a job and nobody is concerned about such deficiencies, you are in deep shit and you will soon be named a 'Powerpoint engineer'.
So you should speng most time and energy not on memorizing formulas for the best possible grade, but on building experience in problem solving and in tracing things back to their basic physical phenomena.
Further, you should not get stuck in the academic worls, but take up as much EE-oriented jobs and activities in parallel as you can. You will design better switchboards if you had to wire some and you will have important knowledge about failures if you keep looking at anything broken.

Because what is really needed, are very good engineers. We have to many of the other kind, and they are impeding technical progress.

Well said. I wish other people understood that.

I will summarise part of that by saying you need to know what you don't know, and (when necessary) how to find out what you need to know.