What did you buy today? Post your latest purchase!

[cprobertson1]

Finally got these boatanchors home! Purchased a year ago for the whopping sum of £10 - wait technically I bought it year ago, but I only got them today - that still counts right ?

Racal Dana 5002 w/manual -- Free
Fluke 6160A - blown power supply -- Free with 1 Hernia
Wavetech 178 w/manual -- £10

Not a bad haul as long as you can get people to carry them for you!

Anybody know where I can get a copy of the service manual for the Fluke? Google isn't yielding to my powers today for some reason

[daqq]

Shunt resistors, 60mV @ 40Amps and 60mV @ 60Amps!

[Mr. Scram]

Have anyone tried hot air reworking on top of 8mm tempered glass?

If it fails, it fails catastrophically. Everything on your table will be on the floor, covered in glass.

[McBryce]

Have anyone tried hot air reworking on top of 8mm tempered glass?

The peak temperature isn't the problem with tempered glass, how fast the temperature changes is what can make it fail. If the glass is pre-warmed it wouldn't be a problem, but if the glass is cold and gets a sudden blast of a few hundred degrees, it will probably rain glass in your lab. Is the glass laminated?

McBryce.

[Mr. Scram]

I received a bag of wirewound ceramic resistors today, so I can do some more high powered tinkering and maybe use them as quick and dirty load stand-ins. I did a few spot checks and most are close enough for comfort. These aren't meant to be precision resistors anyway. There are one or two outliers that don't correspond with their supposed value at all, so I guess those got mislabelled.

The peak temperature isn't the problem with tempered glass, how fast the temperature changes is what can make it fail. If the glass is pre-warmed it wouldn't be a problem, but if the glass is cold and gets a sudden blast of a few hundred degrees, it will probably rain glass in your lab. Is the glass laminated?

McBryce.

Glass can also be unpredictable. Just a minor surface scratch can significantly weaken the sheet as a whole.

[URI]

Today is a public holiday here in Germany to commemorate protestant reformation initiated by Martin Luther 500 years ago.

Also a good opportunity to pimp my lab bench with a new antistatic mat:



It's a complete set. The mat is made of silicone that hopefully will lie totally flat on my bench.
That's something my current mat never did neither is it heat proof. 
It shows that with many solder marks burned deeply in its surface. 

Time to say goodbye!

Also ordered a relay to improve my cheap desoldering station (get the trigger switch out of the way of the vac pumps current) and several fans for pimping some old test gear to make lab life less noisy and so a little more acoustically convenient. 

Ah, not a buy but in preparation to fit the relay into the desoldering station. I opened it up and took the chance to also change the mains power switching from one pole to two pole. I feel better with that.
No prob since it is built with only one pole of the power switch used.. 

[Specmaster]

Ah, not a buy but in preparation to fit the relay into the desoldering station. I opened it up and took the chance to also change the mains power switching from one pole to two pole. I feel better with that.
No prob since it is built with only one pole of the power switch used.. 

Haha that I think was a step to far seeing as the bit you hold in your hand is 24V and now all that you seem to have done is introduce another point of failure. It just now takes any pole of the switch to fail and you're stuffed, whereas before if the pole went O/C, you could simply swap the connections over to the unused pole and bingo, back in business again .

[URI]

Ah, not a buy but in preparation to fit the relay into the desoldering station. I opened it up and took the chance to also change the mains power switching from one pole to two pole. I feel better with that.
No prob since it is built with only one pole of the power switch used.. 

Haha that I think was a step to far seeing as the bit you hold in your hand is 24V and now all that you seem to have done is introduce another point of failure. It just now takes any pole of the switch to fail and you're stuffed, whereas before if the pole went O/C, you could simply swap the connections over to the unused pole and bingo, back in business again .

Ah, built in spare parts? 
I've never seen such a switch failing electrically but mechanically (lost latching function). I've got enough spare parts in stock to replace that switch. But I think I will never have to touch them considering the only 80W of the unit..   

[Specmaster]

Ah, built in spare parts? 
I've never seen such a switch failing electrically but mechanically (lost latching function). I've got enough spare parts in stock to replace that switch. But I think I will never have to touch them considering the only 80W of the unit..   

Glad you saw the funny side of it 
But seriously this SP or DP switch debate has been going on for years and the only real advantage of a DP system is as protection against wrongly wired mains distribution systems which should not happen if the person doing the installation is a fully qualified person. This came about because switched socket outlets, if wired incorrectly would still be leaving the live or the hot wire wire directly connected to the plugged in equipment when the socket switch was switched off. Certain manufacturers used this "scare" technique to scare people who could write specifications that dictate new installations must incorporate these devices in order to win business away from more established market leaders who did not have such sockets within their product portfolios.

There is no real benefit in a properly installed system, equipment plugged in, if it is made of metal, the metal casing must be earthed and back at the source the neutral and earth are bonded together so even with the neutral switched off via the DP switch, your still leaving the earth connected which in a wrongly wired system is still connected to a potentially dangerous supply?

But in the case of the desoldering station, the heating element in the handgun is running at 24v, a safe voltage so why bother with DP on the unit itself?

[Mr. Scram]

Glad you saw the funny side of it 
But seriously this SP or DP switch debate has been going on for years and the only real advantage of a DP system is as protection against wrongly wired mains distribution systems which should not happen if the person doing the installation is a fully qualified person. This came about because switched socket outlets, if wired incorrectly would still be leaving the live or the hot wire wire directly connected to the plugged in equipment when the socket switch was switched off. Certain manufacturers used this "scare" technique to scare people who could write specifications that dictate new installations must incorporate these devices in order to win business away from more established market leaders who did not have such sockets within their product portfolios.

There is no real benefit in a properly installed system, equipment plugged in, if it is made of metal, the metal casing must be earthed and back at the source the neutral and earth are bonded together so even with the neutral switched off via the DP switch, your still leaving the earth connected which in a wrongly wired system is still connected to a potentially dangerous supply?

But in the case of the desoldering station, the heating element in the handgun is running at 24v, a safe voltage so why bother with DP on the unit itself?

Note that a lot of German wall sockets are reversible. There is no "wired incorrectly", either way is correct, though many will be wired a certain way regardless.

[Specmaster]

Note that a lot of German wall sockets are reversible. There is no "wired incorrectly", either way is correct, though many will be wired a certain way regardless.

Yes I know, but I think the same is also true of the USA, but in the case of 3 pin plugs which have to be used in order to connect the earth cable, then these plugs are not reversible so surely 2 pin plugs are only to be fitted to double insulated loads, such as electric razors and hair dryers etc??

[Mr. Scram]

Yes I know, but I think the same is also true of the USA, but in the case of 3 pin plugs which have to be used in order to connect the earth cable, then these plugs are not reversible so surely 2 pin plugs are only to be fitted to double insulated loads, such as electric razors and hair dryers etc??

There's an earth pin on both sides, on both the plug and the socket end. This ensures an Earth connection is always made. This socket is also compatible with double insulated two pin devices, which utilize none of the earth plugs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko

[Specmaster]

Argh, now I see why some people see the need for DP switches, that just cannot happen with the UK style of socket as the pins are arranged in a triangular shape that prevents the live pin being connected to the neutral on the socket so only a SP switch is really required on UK products, seems to me be the safest system around, especially when the first connection and the last connection to be made and broken is the earth.

[Mr. Scram]

Argh, now I see why some people see the need for DP switches, that just cannot happen with the UK style of socket as the pins are arranged in a triangular shape that prevents the live pin being connected to the neutral on the socket so only a SP switch is really required on UK products, seems to me be the safest system around, especially when the first connection and the last connection to be made and broken is the earth.

The latter isn't precluded by this plug style. The earth being broken the last works exactly the same. It's also somewhat redundant, as you have two contacts.

Again, there isn't really a live pin as such with a schuko socket. You could argue that a system with always the same live pin is more predictable, but the problem is that not all sockets are wired correctly, causing potentially dangerous situation because fuses or switches will not be behaving as expected. The Schuko plug eliminates any uncertainty by declaring both pins potentially live, thus also eliminating the risks associated with erroneously wired sockets.

One advantage of the UK plug seems to be the built in fuse, though that does of course require knowledge of what actually is the live side. The safety shutters are also a distinct benefit, although it should be noted some variants of the Schuko also have these. Of course, both designs seem to do their job fairly well, with mishaps being rare and typically caused by other issues.

[Blinkenlights]

While I agree the UK plug seems to be the safest around - I think it is because of the bulk of the contact pins.  Our AU plug is angled to prevent Phase and Neutral being interchanged, even if the plug has no earth.  We still treat all P-N wiring as potentially at medium voltage regardless.  :-)

[URI]

Specmaster, Mr. Scram, you've covered all points regarding different mains plug in common and the Schuko/Euro plug in special.

Again, there isn't really a live pin as such with a schuko socket. You could argue that a system with always the same live pin is more predictable, but the problem is that not all sockets are wired correctly, causing potentially dangerous situation because fuses or switches will not be behaving as expected. The Schuko plug eliminates any uncertainty by declaring both pins potentially live, thus also eliminating the risks associated with erroneously wired sockets.

That's it. And that can lead to unwanted/dangerous situations using equipment one being unaware of it missing basic safety  requirements.
About two years ago I had fun with a switchable multiple socket outlet for connecting my test equipment to the mains.
I used its switch for cutting off mains due to energy costs: A counter and a function generator had OCXOs and drew current all the time even switched off with their on/off switch.
One day (I was in another room) all of a sudden mains power was cut off due to fuse tripping. A 16A automatic fuse had tripped. 
When I went to the fuse box I came along the door of the room with my bench in it and I noticed a very strange, burnt smell. I opened the door and the whole room was filled with white smoke that burnt my eyes! 

What had happened? The switch of the switchable multiple socket outlet was only SP. (And I hadn't thought of and therefore hadn't checked it  )
The function generator had a 'famous for inevitably failing' Schaeffer EMI mains filter socket built in.
In the way the Schuko plug of that the switchable multiple socket outlet was plugged its SP switch had opened neutral leaving the phase and protective earth connected.

That very day the EMI filters time had come. So it decided to fail between mains and protective earth blowing out as much magic smoke as it could. As this started slowly with increasing current it must have taken several minutes before the 16A automatic fuse tripped.
I was lucky it didn't start to burn seriously! 
The cleaning of that mess (I still use my HP 3325B, btw  ) took me uncounted hours of literally stripping it down to the last screw.

That switchable multiple socket outlet went to the garbage and was replaced with one of good quality that I checked positively to have a DP switch in it.
That incident brought me to check for DP mains switches in equipment connected to mains in my household regularly.

Back to the desoldering station: It contains a switching power supply that has semiconductors and capacitors on the hot side in a metal housing connected to protective earth. Using DP switching is simply safe(r) using the Schuko mains plug system. But I'm   

One advantage of the UK plug seems to be the built in fuse, though that does of course require knowledge of what actually is the live side.

That could have shortened the time the EMI-filter blew out smoke. 

The safety shutters are also a distinct benefit, although it should be noted some variants of the Schuko also have these.

Safety shutters are built in every Schuko outlet sold in germany for years now. Older Schuko outlets came without safety shutters and there are still many around. That's the reason why safety shutters for retrofitting Schuko outlets are still being sold in numbers: Everytime a child is born the parents become aware of the possible dangers of playing around at mains outlets without safety shutters.   

[Specmaster]

Using DP switching is simply safe(r) using the Schuko mains plug system. But I'm   

I agree in that instance, but if the wiring standards / regulations were improved to prevent plugs being inserted incorrectly such as the UK system, then a SP switch in the live side is all that is required. Had that been the case then your HP 3325B would not have blown its filter caps either because switching the switch off on the multiple socket outlet.

[djos]

Argh, now I see why some people see the need for DP switches, that just cannot happen with the UK style of socket as the pins are arranged in a triangular shape that prevents the live pin being connected to the neutral on the socket so only a SP switch is really required on UK products, seems to me be the safest system around, especially when the first connection and the last connection to be made and broken is the earth.

Same in Australia, although we go two steps further:

1/ It's physically impossible to insert a non-earthed Plug in "the wrong way" as the active and neutral pins are angled
2/ We have Power switches on all power points - it's been mandatory since forever



iirc the chinese use the same socket & plug as we do but rotated 180 degrees for some inexplicable reason. 

[Mr. Scram]

I agree in that instance, but if the wiring standards / regulations were improved to prevent plugs being inserted incorrectly such as the UK system, then a SP switch in the live side is all that is required. Had that been the case then your HP 3325B would not have blown its filter caps either because switching the switch off on the multiple socket outlet.

Until some knob wires the socket or plug in reverse. Not having a predefined hot side is a feature, not a bug.

[julianhigginson]

Of course, a proper RCD/earth leakage protector on your circuit at the fuse box would also have saved you the exploding mains filter.

[URI]

Of course, a proper RCD/earth leakage protector on your circuit at the fuse box would also have saved you the exploding mains filter.

Right. I took care of that ..later.

That very day the EMI filters time had come. So it decided to fail between mains and protective earth blowing out as much magic smoke as it could. As this started slowly with increasing current it must have taken several minutes before the 16A automatic fuse tripped.

16A across mains and ground? There the hell is the GFCI?
You must be lucky since without a GFCI, a leakage path to ground plus a faulty ground connection means instant death when you touch anything grounded on that table.

Ground connections at my bench had been checked manually. 
Only the mains circuit of the bathroom is RCD protected in the fuse box of my flat.
Meanwhile my bench has a local RCD protecting 8 mains outlets there I'm using for powering my test gear.  And each pair of those eight mains outlets is protected by an 10A automatic fuse.

Let's get back ontopic!
I got estimated shipment dates for two LEMO Circular Push Pull Connectors I ordered at Mouser Electronics several weeks ago.
But.. 19th Dec 2017!  Are they manufacturing them individually when ordered there at LEMO..? puhh waiting for them to be delivered is hard. X-Mas coming! 

[djos]

iirc the chinese use the same socket & plug as we do but rotated 180 degrees for some inexplicable reason. 

It's said to make sure if a plug was accidentally pulled out by kicking, there's a (marginally) higher chance for the Australian plug to have ground pin break last, after L and N pins.
If a Chinese plug was yanked out by a kick, due to the downward angle, ground will break first, then followed by power pins.
If the plug was partially yanked out, there's a chance that the appliance will still work, but without ground pin, which is a safety risk.
Finally, Australia is on the south hemisphere, where things are inverted than us living in the north.

All pretty slim rationales really.

Lol, I was waiting for a "you guy's are upside down" joke.

[Kjelt]

Shuko and the UK plugs are all antiques from the early 20th century. They should be updated to 21th century 
For my new projects and things I want to update I have switched over to the Wieland GTS18 system, smaller, asymetrical higher voltage and amperage resistance 

[glarsson]

GST18?

[Kjelt]

GST18?

Yes you are correct GST18