Pennsylvania Forbids Discarding Of Electronic Items With Trash

[SgtRock]

Greetings EEVBees:

--See below link for an article about Pennsylvania's new law forbidding the placing of discarded electronic items in trash put out for pickup.

http://pikecountycourier.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130124/NEWS01/130129985/New-law:-Don%27t-toss-electronics-with-the-trash

--I imagine we are going to see more of this kind of law in many locales. As yet I do not know if it is going to be good or bad for those of us Dumpster Divers. I saw where one person who has this kind of law where he lives, said he has a way around this problem. He sets the items out in front of his house with a for sale sign on them, and usually, within, 24 hours they are stolen.

--If any of you, who like to repair discarded electronic items, live in an area with this kind of law, your comments would be welcome.

"At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new. This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense."
Carl Sagan 1934-1996

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[jerry507]

This is a non-issue. It's definitely good for the environment, and there are plenty of avenues such as freecycle for people to give broken things a new home.

If it came down to the choice between the negative effects of trashing all this stuff and the small number of items picked up and fixed, the choice should be obvious.

[SLJ]

Here in New York most counties run free electronics drop-off days a couple times a year.  Sometimes they charge a small amount for CRT TVs, sometimes they don't.
I usually have a truck full for them.

[SgtRock]

Dear Jerry507:

--I never said it was an issue. But you seem to be arguing this it it. I was merely wondering whether it was going to make it easier or harder for people to find things to repair. Now, it could very well turn out that it will make it easier to obtain electronic items to repair and use. Fixing and using is even better than recycling and buying a new one, no? That is why I thought "Cash For Clunkers" was a bad idea. Chopping up a 10 year old Volvo that runs well, and giving someone an incentive (at taxpayer expense) to buy a new car, leaves the poor family that really needs a thousand dollar car, out in the cold.

--So "its not an issue", but "the choice should be obvious." I will mark you down as being in favor of the legislation, which of course is not what I was asking. Just for future reference and to save us all time; Leaving aside the Military are there any Government programs you do not support?

--Here in Orlando we have a very costly Recycling System with special bins and special trucks, which pick the stuff up and a majority of which they take to the landfill. But look on the bright side, it provides more government jobs for people who will vote for more government jobs. It would probably save energy, and money to just pay the wages, and forget all of the driving around with special bins and trucks.

--I pick many appliances out of the trash stream. Many are fixed and used or donated. Some are parted out to eBay. PCBs, Wiring, and Metals are recycled. The only thing I return to the trash stream are broken screens, plastics, CRTs and fabric. In other words 80 to 90 percent of what I remove from the stream is not returned to it. Things that are repaired and used save money and pollution.

--The facts are not in, one way or another on the Pennsylvania program, so I am withholding judgement until more facts are in.

Dear SLJ:

--That looks like an interesting site you have there, I have bookmarked it. By the way, what is the instrument with the aluminum face plate and the 4 Eye Tubes?

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people."
William Claude Dukenfield, W. C. Fields 1880 - 1946

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[houdini]

I don't know how they do it in Pennsylvania but here in north Carolina the trash goes in big black bags into a container that gets dumped into a truck and crushed.  So basically you can trash whatever you can fit in the bin.  If it doesn't fit you break it down with a hammer or something.

[westfw]

California has required recycling of "eWaste" for years now.
I think the net effect on "dumpster-diving" in general is good; individuals are more likely to look for news homes for their electronics, and companies have separate eWaste bins that provide very concentrated electronics.  If you have the right contacts or connections, or make them.

however, the "bring your eWaste" "events" do not seem to allow the raiding of  their collected material :-(

[Kremmen]

Not that it is useful in this context, but just for comparison: here the system goes like this:

-You have your normal trash collection systems - in the cities it is usually a collection of bins per building, where trash is roughly sorted, like paper separated from food scraps etc. The processing is more or less separate, it depends. In rural areas you have a bin per house, period. Everything you put in, goes to a landfill. You are required to have a bin and make a contract with a grabage collector, just making the waste "disappear" is not an option. But you can decide how often they come to collect. There are restrictions what is allowed in this trash, basically no "problem" refuse is permitted.

- Then there are municipal recycling centers, usually associated with a garbage dump. These accept anything and many kinds of trash can be left at no cost, such as all kinds of metal, wood in all forms including the toxic pressure treated kind (collected separately), oils, paints, chemicals. White goods are collected separately, as are electronic gadgets, PCs whatnot. The only thing you pay for is unsorted garbage that you pay by weight.
In my local place the electronics recycling bin is a shipping container with nice 1 cubic meter cages holding the stuff. Usually it is ransacked several times over before ending up in the recycling plant. I sometimes go there to get some power supply parts from old printers and there is always one or several others doing the same thing.

[jerry507]

If it's got the word "government" anywhere near it, it isn't automatically bad. I can't speak for your "very costly" program, but in both Iowa and Minnesota recycling programs save quite a bit of money. Building landfills is very expensive and these restrictions on what goes into the dump leads to fewer landfills. That translates into less money spent by the governments on trash service. Not everything makes sense to recycle obviously, but my recycling service is a strictly for profit operation. They have decided that pizza boxes make money, #4 plastic doesn't. I wish they would recycle that #4, and likely the total cost is less, but because the recycling service doesn't get any money for saving the trash company the cost of the landfill, no dice.

I think we can all agree that we'd like to see less stuff wind up in the landfill. My post was not intended to say dumpster diving is bad. But the fact is dumpster diving is a minority hobby, a very very minority hobby. Start involving private companies and they're definitely not going to want to divert usable product to dumpster divers. Open bins like Kremmen has would be great for dumpster divers, and still collect the material.

Just out of curiosity I did about 15 seconds of googling on Orlando's (I assume Florida) recycling system:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-11-12/news/os-machines-sort-your-recycling-20121112_1_single-stream-garbage-carts-small-bins

Turns out you have Waste Management, just like I do here in Minnesota. Apparently curbside service is government provided but the actual processing is done privately. If that's the case, lucky you: Waste Management is awesome and the vast majority of your recycling stays out of the landfill. You should take a minute to learn about what you're deriding before you deride it.

[SeanB]

Biggest thing you can do to minimise waste is make products last longer, and be serviceable. Double the life or make it easy to repair and you can have something that will last a decade.

Not like replacing the entire electronics in the house every 2 years as there is a "New and improved" model out, or buying the "New improved color scheme" appliance and tossing the working stuff out to do so.

Only one who loses are the manufacturers, as they will have to make good stuff ( which they are able to do really) and keep spares in stock, but there will be reduced sales volume ( bad from their point) and they will have to have repair centres to handle the service side. Not going to hapen so long as the beancounters and the stockholders have a long term view that is six months, and is "increase sales volume at all costs and maximise profit at all costs" and nothing else. that short term view has to change, before anything else.

[SgtRock]

Dear Jerry504:

--I live in the city which you claim to know more about than I do. Please note that the article you called our attention to says that the City of Orlando, is in the process of, but has not fully done so yet, getting rid of the Special Recycling Trucks. Trust me please, they are not doing this because the Special Recycling Trucks are a whomping success. Point in fact from an on the ground observer, less than 5% of households bothered putting stuff in the colored bins, it was a joke, most people found the bins useful for storage though. The City Beautiful is now going to issue very large containers for recycling which will be picked up twice monthly. Trust me, this is not because the three small bins, one for glass, one for plastics and one for paper, are a whomping success. Yes I know the article says every two weeks, but, trust me again, it will be twice monthly, the article lies, using the round off excuse. Secondly, you do not need a special program to recycle Metals, Appliances, TVs, Car Batteries, Usable Clothing, Usable Furniture, or anything of recyclable value. All you have to do is leave them by the curb and if they do not disappear within 24 hours I will kiss your a##, after giving you 24 hours to mark the spot, and then draw a crowd. True, the remaining 10 to 20 percent plastics, rubbers, glasses and fabric materials will show back up in the trash stream, no doubt. But do we really need a recycling program to separate these materials and then take them to the landfill, when otherwise they would be headed for the landfill anyway.

--Now, if on the other hand the purpose is to take as much money as possible out of the private sector and divert it into the public sector, then these kinds of programs are indeed, very effective. And I know that many people may be "marginally, OK with that" no matter what the real facts are. I understand and respect the people who hold those opinions, but I do not agree.

--In Orlando, rather Larger Orange County Florida, should I say, we have a special 5 cents per gallon container tax on one gallon plastic milk jugs, to provide for recycling costs. Guess what happens to the milk jugs when they are separated at the recycling center. Give that Gentleman a Cigar, that is correct, they are transported to the Landfill and discarded.

--Much is made of the fact that Cross-Linked Polyethylene or Polythene, for those of you who are standing upside down, right now, can be recycled into carpet fiber or planks for decks and benches. True enough, but the demand only equals 10% of the supply of discarded material, all the rest is taken to the dump.

--Jerry, your ideas and wishes in this area are indeed laudable, but between the idea and the execution, there falls the shadow. All of this government expenditure at taxpayer expense could be avoided, or alternately you could find something really useful for these people to do.

--How many aluminum cans have you seen lying around beside the roadside lately?

Dear SeanB:

I agree.

 "The only relevant test of the validity of a hypothesis is comparison of prediction with experience. "
Milton Friedman 1912 - 2006

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[SeanB]

Cleanest country is Zimbabwe, where noone can afford to toss garbage, it is too valuable.....

Then again, here there is a program to have separate bags, black for general, blue for garden refuse, orange for recycling and beige for municipal internal use. All get collected ( though the orange and blue often lie around for days before collection) and taken. The black and blue go to the dumpsite, where the black bags have a portion taken to a stripper where there are sorters who go through them looking for ferrous metal ( magnet belt on input) and other metals and certain plastics. They get odd stuff, like guns, ammunition, dead babies ( pretty common) and body parts and dead animals.

The orange bags go through the same scheme, with about 30% getting sorted for white paper, cardboard and PET bottles, the rest goes to the same dumpsite.

Myself at work I have a pile for white paper, and there is a big box for cardboard, which I take to the local office of Mondi ( now mPact Recycling) and weigh in, then collect the cash. Normally about 300kg every 3 months or so of used cardboard and paper.

We had an old street lady who came around once a week to collect, but after 10 years of doing this she went on pension, and the money she had made from the sale of the card from us ( opened a savings account for her, as she is illiterate and innumerate, but can work with money no problem) over the years was enough for her to build a house for herself in her village, plus the account meant she could get her government pension without having to go to a paypoint and get robbed on the way out.

[Achilles]

Well, since some years it is forbidden to discard electronics in your household waste in the EU. There are places where you can bring that stuff for recycling. Most parts of the normal waste get crushed, but you could use a lot of it again. Not even to mention the stuff that just gets thrown away because it has been replaced with a newer model.
Here in Germany it is very common to check small electronics stores of so if they have something broken. Or just check at the E-Waste disposal and ask the people there if you can have it to take it apart.
In France they have their "déchetterie " where you have containers to throw in the stuff (Electronics, furniture, construction material, and so on). It is really crowded there and lots of people go there to actually get something rather than throw away.

....just it's new and apart from old regulation it really doesn't have to be bad..... where would evolution be if nothing changes. I am pretty sure you can get some stuff at a deposal place as well and you'll have a lot more to choose from there.

[M. András]

yeah, last year i saw the separate collection of the recycling bins, paper/metal/glass etc. the guy with the truck came to the recycling bin island and dumped all 5 to the same truck then went to the next island and we should collect the trash separate for free for these to get nice profit? there are tons of gypsys here who wont even work just wait for goverment aids while driving expensive cars and wearing gold chains... they could collect these useless "things" and give them work at the landfills. collect the stuffs what can be recycled. no more goverment aids for them from the taxpayers money, some salary and they can go home raise the rat flock they gave birth.....

sorry for the language. i bet everyone who met atleast 1 familily (approx 3-50peeps) thinks the same as i, they are vermin nothing else

[jaqie]

Just thought I'd chime into the thread with this since it is germane to the original post:

Oregon E-Cycle law, been around since 2010.

http://www.deq.state.or.us/lq/ecycle/index.htm

In short it is illegal to throw anything with a picture tube or any type of computer or printer in the trash, and there are pick-up sites you can drop off your stuff at in every major town.

[TerraHertz]

You'd think having a dedicated recycling path for electronics, would be an either/or with implementation of ROHS rules for electronics.
So now the electronics is supposed to be OK to landfill because of ROHS, but it's going to be mandatory to recycle it anyway?

ROHS just makes me feel like this: http://www.grumpycats.com/

[saturation]

Dumpster diving isn't so fruitful in consumer trash, its often not worth salvaging or poor quality.  Its being near offices, industrial areas, labs, schools, airports, and military installations that have great trash.  Often pick up in offices buildings is often just weekly or less for electronic recyclers, if you know where the room is, you have first dibs on it.  In industrial settings, electronics isn't  trashed but sold off in auctions by the pallet many are taken by pro recyclers and sold e.g. on eBay, to be reused.

[madires]

Well, since some years it is forbidden to discard electronics in your household waste in the EU. There are places where you can bring that stuff for recycling.

That's the small crossed out trash can symbol. But the system is a little bit more complex in Germany. Any company bringing future e-waste to market has to register the stuff and pre-pay for disposal. There are exemptions if the company has its own nationwide infrastructure to collect their e-waste. If you import or produce electronics and sell those to consumers you have to register. The consumer brings his e-waste to a local collection/disposal/recycling center, mostly run by the district. After that the e-waste goes to a real recycling company which hopefully does a good job.